Slavery in the New Testament

[Truronian]

I've seen several people back up their labelling of homosexuality as a sin with quotes from the New Testament, I understand that the New Testemant is considerably more reliable when it comes to moral matters than the Old Testemant, but is it infalliable? I've always taken the New Testemant's passages on slavery to be proof that it is not always morally upstanding:

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

If God sees slavery as a sin, why does he not speak out against the Christian masters? Surely God is turning a blind eye to, or even condoning, slavery.

I'm also interested in how our OT Christians view the Old and New Testament. Are they both to be taken literally, or neither?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

As one who views both the OT and NT as only part of God's revelations to man, and only partially concerned with universal ideas, I would say that the issue is not that they are condoning slavery. They just did not seek to overthrow the social order. At the same time they believed that being a Christian gave one a relationship to God that overrode master/slave considerations.

 

[MobBoss]

I've seen several people back up their labelling of homosexuality as a sin with quotes from the New Testament, I understand that the New Testemant is considerably more reliable when it comes to moral matters than the Old Testemant, but is it infalliable? I've always taken the New Testemant's passages on slavery to be proof that it is not always morally upstanding:

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

If God sees slavery as a sin, why does he not speak out against the Christian masters? Surely God is turning a blind eye to, or even condoning, slavery.

I'm also interested in how our OT Christians view the Old and New Testament. Are they both to be taken literally, or neither?

This has been discussed before. Slavery is not a sin. How a man mistreats another man is a sin. Remember, slavery back then could be entered into voluntarily to erase debt and it was law to free your slaves every 7 years and forgive all debts.

It is a routine message in the NT that, as christians, we should be good servants (slaves if you will) in all that we do. That real service to our fellow man is done via servanthood. I tend to agree with that.

In a modern analogy, an employer is master over his employees, his slaves/servants. Is it a sin to employ people? No. But it would be a sin to harass or treat them badly. Same deal.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

In the OT, slavery was basically 7 years of indentured servitude. But in the NT, they followed the Roman model which treated their slaves barbarically - as bad as in the US South.

 

[.Shane.]

This has been discussed before. Slavery is not a sin. How a man mistreats another man is a sin. Remember, slavery back then could be entered into voluntarily to erase debt and it was law to free your slaves every 7 years and forgive all debts.

No, that is indentured servitude. Slavery is for life.

In a modern analogy, an employer is master over his employees, his slaves/servants.

That is amazingly twisted logic. In no way am I or anyone else who works for a living a "slave". I'm free to quit at any time. Maybe you see it this way because you're in the military.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

No, that is indentured servitude. Slavery is for life.

That's not entirely true. Many slaves, especially in the beginning of Colonial America, had limited terms; also, the OT does require the freeing of all slaves within 7 years, but still calls them slaves.

 

[Truronian]

This has been discussed before. Slavery is not a sin. How a man mistreats another man is a sin. Remember, slavery back then could be entered into voluntarily to erase debt and it was law to free your slaves every 7 years and forgive all debts.

It is a routine message in the NT that, as christians, we should be good servants (slaves if you will) in all that we do. That real service to our fellow man is done via servanthood. I tend to agree with that.

In a modern analogy, an employer is master over his employees, his slaves/servants. Is it a sin to employ people? No. But it would be a sin to harass or treat them badly. Same deal.

Surely involuntary slavery is a form of mistreatment (I'll give you voluntary slavery for debt wiping ). Employment is different, as you cannot be involuntarily employed.

 

[Sidhe]

No, that is indentured servitude. Slavery is for life.



That is amazingly twisted logic. In no way am I or anyone else who works for a living a "slave". I'm free to quit at any time. Maybe you see it this way because you're in the military.

Sorry I just had to point out that this made me laugh don't be silly Shane they get well paid in the Army, it's not slavery it's an example of being an indentured servant

 

[.Shane.]

That's not entirely true. Many slaves, especially in the beginning of Colonial America, had limited terms; also, the OT does require the freeing of all slaves within 7 years, but still calls them slaves.

Never read that before, what's the citation (for the 7 year thing?).

Maybe it has more to do w/ how you came to be.. err.. "employed". Indentured servitude is typically, at the least, minimally voluntary. Slavery is not.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Never read that before, what's the citation (for the 7 year thing?).

Maybe it has more to do w/ how you came to be.. err.. "employed". Indentured servitude is typically, at the least, minimally voluntary. Slavery is not.

I believe in either Exodus or Deuteronomy - the Israelites had a Jubilee Year every 7 years, which involved among other things freeing all slaves. If I get a chance I will find the verse.

And I think also Israelites could only become slaves voluntarily. Non-Israelites could become slaves as prisoners of war, which was the standard practice in most ancient societies.

 

[MobBoss]

No, that is indentured servitude. Slavery is for life.

2000+ years ago indentured servitude was still regarded as slavery - the bible does not differ from the two.

That is amazingly twisted logic. In no way am I or anyone else who works for a living a "slave". I'm free to quit at any time. Maybe you see it this way because you're in the military.

Once more, you miss the point. The focus isnt on the insitution of slavery or employer/employee interaction...its about how people treat one another regardless of their status.

 

[MobBoss]

Surely involuntary slavery is a form of mistreatment (I'll give you voluntary slavery for debt wiping ). Employment is different, as you cannot be involuntarily employed.

Sure you can. Ever see prison workers cleaning up the trash on the highways?

 

[Truronian]

Sure you can. Ever see prison workers cleaning up the trash on the highways?

That may be involuntary, but it is not employment, t'is punishment. You dodged/missed my first point. Surely keeping a slave against his will is mistreatment?

 

[.Shane.]

2000+ years ago indentured servitude was still regarded as slavery - the bible does not differ from the two.

Ok, so the biblical definition of slavery is a bit different, fair enough.

Once more, you miss the point. The focus isnt on the insitution of slavery or employer/employee interaction...its about how people treat one another regardless of their status.

No, I got the point, which is why I didn't comment on that part of your paragraph.

Anyhoo... Back to the grind er... indentured servitude er.... life of a wage slave.

 

[Sidhe]

indentured servant: a person who is bonded or contracted to work for another for a specified time, in exchange for learning a trade or for travel expenses (as to America)

Slave:One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.

It might be wise to stick to these definitions.

Shane is neither a slave or an indentured servant

Mob Boss is an indentured servant but not a slave.

Found this snippet under the definition to, there is no modern paralel to slave as ascertained, but then this is Old Testament.

Slave

Jer. 2:14 (A.V.), but not there found in the original. In Rev. 18:13 the word
"slaves" is the rendering of a Greek word meaning "bodies." The Hebrew and
Greek words for slave are usually rendered simply "servant," "bondman," or
"bondservant." Slavery as it existed under the Mosaic law has no modern
parallel. That law did not originate but only regulated the already existing
custom of slavery (Ex. 21:20, 21, 26, 27; Lev. 25:44-46; Josh. 9:6-27). The
gospel in its spirit and genius is hostile to slavery in every form, which
under its influence is gradually disappearing from among men.

 

[aneeshm]

I believe in either Exodus or Deuteronomy - the Israelites had a Jubilee Year every 7 years, which involved among other things freeing all slaves. If I get a chance I will find the verse.

And I think also Israelites could only become slaves voluntarily. Non-Israelites could become slaves as prisoners of war, which was the standard practice in most ancient societies.

It's in Exodus .

 

[EdwardTking]

Non-Israelites could become slaves as prisoners of war, which was the standard practice in most ancient societies.

The alternative then for the defeated enemy was to be
either ransomed or murdered. As most people did not have
wealthy relatives; being enslaved was generally a kindness.

That was why the bible tacitly supported it.

Back then ordinary people had to work very hard for not
much more than the food they ate and clothes they wore.

Being a slave simply meant that they were of a lower
social status and had less freedom than non slaves.

And slaves were rarely chained, chains cost money
and impeded work. Slaves might be beaten, but then
masters would beat servants, wives and children too.

The bible advocated that masters treat their slaves fairly.

 

[warpus]

This has been discussed before. Slavery is not a sin. How a man mistreats another man is a sin.

This is one of the reasons why I got out of the Catholic Church.

Slavery isn't a sin but masturbation is?

 

[.Shane.]

Slavery is not a sin.

Just picked up on this. "Slavery" is a neutral term.

This is a question for the general floor, not so much mobboss.

There are 2 sides. Slave and master. Obviously, the status of being a slave is not sinful (though sinful behavior may have led to that status). But, what about the status of being the master? Is owning slaves sin or not?

 

[ironduck]

In the OT, slavery was basically 7 years of indentured servitude.

That was only true for men. Women slaves were slaves for life unless they got lucky. Considering that they were raped and this was considered perfectly ok because they were slaves I don't see how anyone can condone the slavery of the OT.