Small Observations General Thread (things not worth separate threads)

[AriochIV]

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

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Finally. Civ gives us a 'musketman' that can be precisely identified. These are matchlock musketmen, and since they aren't shown with forked musket rests, they are carrying the 'lighter' musket from roughly after 1640 CE (typical of the English Civil War rather than the start of the Thirty Year's War) The wide-brimmed hats are a little more typical of French or Spanish troops than German or English, but not exclusive. And since they are not carrying pre-loaded 'charges' of gunpowder and ball in paper or cloth or wooden 'cartridges' they are really earlier than the 1670s, after which they should have the 'twelve apostles' - 12 pre-loaded charges slung from the leather strap over their left shoulder.

They are also shown a suitable distance apart: those prominent 'ropes' or matches dangling from the lock of their muskets should be smouldering, since they had to keep them lit throughout the battle, and they had to keep a good distance from each other to avoid accidentally setting their neighbors or themselves on fire while trying to reload. The Manual of Arms for reloading had over 40 movements, most of which were concerned with Safety rather than Loading: since they handled loose gunpowder constantly, their clothes became impregnated with gunpowder dust making an accidental contact with a live flame even more exciting than usual!

 

[Siptah]

Finally a look at the Expansionist attribute tree.

I fear the leader attributes alone are enough to keep the game imbalanced forever... but maybe, hopefully, they add a lot to replayablity and fun.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

On unexpected (unexpected for me at least) consequence of ages is that the auto-upgrade of units at the start of each age means that unlocking units in the prior age is optional - there's no game-long penalty if you miss one or two. This, along with the mastered version of some units, means that we're getting some more fine graining than ever before, with more frequent and smoother jumps. This is great for fixing things in a particular historical context!

But how will it affect strategy? The old way to start a war with advantage: a beeline to a new powerful unit followed by a mass upgrade and a ~20 turn window before anyone can match you, might not be so dominant anymore. Which is probably good, because it always felt like a rather gamey exploit and was very strong on slow speeds but almost impossible on fast ones. Now you'll have to really out science / culture someone to have a dominant unit advantage, and even that is limited by ages. I wonder if this will make the AI feel stronger, even if it's no smarter?

On that note, what do we know about the different game speeds of Civ7?

I don't think weve seen anything about game speeds.

I suspect the new meta for military conquest will revolve around Commanders. You will want to get one out ASAP, then fight Indie Powers to get some promotions on it before trying to conquer another civ.

 

[Krikkit1]

On unexpected (unexpected for me at least) consequence of ages is that the auto-upgrade of units at the start of each age means that unlocking units in the prior age is optional - there's no game-long penalty if you miss one or two. This, along with the mastered version of some units, means that we're getting some more fine graining than ever before, with more frequent and smoother jumps. This is great for fixing things in a particular historical context!

But how will it affect strategy? The old way to start a war with advantage: a beeline to a new powerful unit followed by a mass upgrade and a ~20 turn window before anyone can match you, might not be so dominant anymore. Which is probably good, because it always felt like a rather gamey exploit and was very strong on slow speeds but almost impossible on fast ones. Now you'll have to really out science / culture someone to have a dominant unit advantage, and even that is limited by ages. I wonder if this will make the AI feel stronger, even if it's no smarter?

On that note, what do we know about the different game speeds of Civ7?

That's still possible, it will just be beeline to powerful unit that's 2/3 through the age and use it in the 20 turns before the Age ends to get a bunch of territory which you then use in the next age.

 

[Gori the Grey]

View attachment 709314

It looks as though they can get individualized-looking soldiers by having 3 boot types, 3 hat types, 3 facial hair types, 3 sleeve types, etc and then mix-n-matching them.

 

[uppi]

But how will it affect strategy? The old way to start a war with advantage: a beeline to a new powerful unit followed by a mass upgrade and a ~20 turn window before anyone can match you, might not be so dominant anymore. Which is probably good, because it always felt like a rather gamey exploit and was very strong on slow speeds but almost impossible on fast ones. Now you'll have to really out science / culture someone to have a dominant unit advantage, and even that is limited by ages. I wonder if this will make the AI feel stronger, even if it's no smarter?

I'd say, with more granularity, you get more power spikes, but smaller ones. If you want to wage a war, it would still make sense to declare it shortly after you received an upgrade. And then use that temporary advantage to achieve your goals. Which just might be take a specific city and then regroup and wait for the next power spike. Or you manage to crush their main army and can take the cities at leisure before they have a chance to rebuild.

On that note, what do we know about the different game speeds of Civ7?

In the exploration age live stream, Ed said that the game was at Normal speed instead of Quick (what they usually use for streams). So we know that game speeds exist and there are at least those two.

 

[Evolena]

On that note, what do we know about the different game speeds of Civ7?

Ed said the Exploration Age stream was on Standard Speed, unlike other streams which are often at Quick Speed.

 

[Disgustipated]

I have a question, not worth its own thread. How exactly does the capital switching mechanic work? I'm still a little unclear on that. Are you forced to change capitals? I suspect the answer is no, but I think it would be more interesting to force the player to change capitals, it might make the civ changing mechanic less awkward. And can the capital only go to a town and not a city? And finally, what happens to the old capital? Is it still a city or does it go into a town?

And one more question. What is the actual benefit of moving the capital other than possibly upgrading a town into a city?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

And one more question. What is the actual benefit of moving the capital other than possibly upgrading a town into a city?

I'm curious about this, too. The last time I recall a material reason to move your capital around was when corruption was a game mechanic that caused diminishing returns on gold/science/happiness for cities the further those cities were from your capital. There's probably been something since that I'm forgetting, but I don't recall being motivated to move my capital since. I'm looking forward to hearing whether Civ 7 has a reason to change your capital, other than for flavour or to boost a town into a city for free.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

I was going to say you may want to move your capital based on your bonuses changing as a new civ, but you still get those bonus in the city without moving your capital.

The first live stream Ed made a specific point about map generation getting everyone a good start in 7.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm curious about this, too. The last time I recall a material reason to move your capital around was when corruption was a game mechanic that caused diminishing returns on gold/science/happiness for cities the further those cities were from your capital. There's probably been something since that I'm forgetting, but I don't recall being motivated to move my capital since. I'm looking forward to hearing whether Civ 7 has a reason to change your capital, other than for flavour or to boost a town into a city for free.

Considering that it's a free action, it's probably purely a roleplaying factor, although you may benefit from having access to the coast in your capital at the beginning of the Exploration Age.

 

[AriochIV]

In the past capital switching was done via a build option, so it's likely something like that, in which you have to spend production or gold.

Presumably the palace and city hall provide some kind of bonuses, but I haven't seen what they are. (You can try to reverse-engineer them from the few yield shots we have, but I think there are too many potential variables for that to be reliable.)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

In the past capital switching was done via a build option, so it's likely something like that, in which you have to spend production or gold.

Presumably the palace and city hall provide some kind of bonuses, but I haven't seen what they are. (You can try to reverse-engineer them from the few yield shots we have, but I think there are too many potential variables for that to be reliable.)

Capital switching happens during the Age transition. It's one of the options at the bottom of the legacy list and costs zero legacy points.

 

[AriochIV]

Capital switching happens during the Age transition. It's one of the options at the bottom of the legacy list and costs zero legacy points.

I know, but that's not necessarily the only way it can happen.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

It looks as though they can get individualized-looking soldiers by having 3 boot types, 3 hat types, 3 facial hair types, 3 sleeve types, etc and then mix-n-matching them.

Old Glory, one of the largest manufacturers of miniature (wargaming) figures in the USA, started this 'way back in the 1980s: producing a 'standard' figure with 4 - 5 facial/hat variations, a few changes in posture, a couple of variations in costume: even a simple 5 x 3 x 3 gives you 45 potential variations, which is enough to make every single 10 - 30 man unit distinctive. - And that's before you even worry about color variations in uniforms, plumes in the hats, flags, etc.

This game already has hints that it is going to be one of the most detailed graphically of any Civ game.

On strategies to use these variable-looking units, I agree with the other Posters: the key is going to be in the Army Commanders, what kinds of 'promotions' and bonuses they have and can provide, and how well you can use multiple commanders to reinforce Success, stave off disaster, and how well you use commanders to funnel the most Force to the most important points.

In virtually all previous Civ games, 'strategy and tactics' consisted of having the most-promoted and advanced units possible, piling as many of them up against an enemy (army or town), and pounding the enemy flat. Flanking, air support, long range artillery or naval firepower all helped, but everything boiled down to More Advanced Unit versus Fewer Older Units in the end.

Now, it looks to me as if Army Commanders with the right promotions at the right spot will be much more important than the numbers and types of Units those commanders are in charge of. All the advanced units in the world will not matter if they are around your capital without Commanders to move them fast when the battle is taking place 20 tiles away.

I hate to keep trotting out old military quotes (what am I saying, I love this stuff!), but I think combat in Civ VII will bil down to:

"Better an army of Lambs commanded by a Lion,
Than an army of Lions commanded by a Lamb".

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

View attachment 709314

Where did you get this Musketeer model? a videofeed showing this unit? (and I Think this is generic choice rather than unique 'Tercio'. to me Tercio is comvined arms.

They are also shown a suitable distance apart: those prominent 'ropes' or matches dangling from the lock of their muskets should be smouldering, since they had to keep them lit throughout the battle, and they had to keep a good distance from each other to avoid accidentally setting their neighbors or themselves on fire while trying to reload. The Manual of Arms for reloading had over 40 movements, most of which were concerned with Safety rather than Loading: since they handled loose gunpowder constantly, their clothes became impregnated with gunpowder dust making an accidental contact with a live flame even more exciting than usual!

Also, these matches are best be longer. But still, modelling challenge to me how to run a match chord around a musket using Blender. And frankly, running a rigging rope when doing sail ship model (and even galleys) isn't really easy.

^ Just finished yesterday.

^ And Textured

And @Boris Gudenuf . why generic 'European' Musketeers always wear leather gloves? and tell me about this leather vest. Is it 16th-17th C. Fashion or it provides some protection against blades (or doesn't it?)

 

[AriochIV]

Where did you get this Musketeer model? a videofeed showing this unit? (and I Think this is generic choice rather than unique 'Tercio'. to me Tercio is comvined arms.


Also, these matches are best be longer. But still, modelling challenge to me how to run a match chord around a musket using Blender. And frankly, running a rigging rope when doing sail ship model (and even galleys) isn't really easy.

View attachment 709330
^ Just finished yesterday.

And @Boris Gudenuf . why generic 'European' Musketeers always wear leather gloves? and tell me about this leather vest. Is it 16th-17th C. Fashion or it provides some protection against blades (or doesn't it?)

This is from today's video short. And yes, it appears to be a Musketman and not a Tercio. (Although the figure model looks pretty much the same between the two.)

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

This is from today's video short. And yes, it appears to be a Musketman and not a Tercio. (Although the figure model looks pretty much the same between the two.)

is it a Tiktok or what? It doesn't show on my Firefox browser (PC).

 

[AriochIV]

is it a Tiktok or what? It doesn't show on my Firefox browser (PC).

There's a version on YouTube and on Twitter.