So has Firaxis given up on BE?

[vahouth]

To answer the thread title, I think so.
It feels like they also abandoned the community in this forum, unless there is a response here that I don't know about...

 

[Ryika]

It's not like they are different games beyond the average length of a game, right? Kinda hard for me to see how that's the crucial point, considering ALL differences.

I don't really see how that's an argument. Of course they're different games, however, the mechanics they use are mostly the same, just used for different purposes and with a generally different "design goal" in mind. So yes, as a person who mostly plays games for their mechanics and less so for storyline and whatever-else, it does indeed come down to how the game "feels" - and this one feels a lot faster paced and yet not like "rushing" (Like Civ 5 does when one plays on Fast to speed things up) - at least not until you get into the "gather all the affinity-techs"-phase. (It's rather interesting actually that, when BE was released, I was very much in the "That game is way too short."-state, but over time I started really liking that)

Nah, I do realize the game does not polarize that much. It's just that I have an extreme position. Saying the game is kinda okay or 'I like playing it' because of xyz is strongly over-praising it from my POV. ;-) Also I don't overestimate my influence on how the game continues to evolve. Also I did not say that I know better. Obviously it comes down to taste. But it's perfectly acceptable to argue about taste, no?

Yes, that's perfectly acceptable - even more than that, it's a good thing and probably something that really brings the game forward if it helps the playerbase "make up their mind" and if the developers actually listen to what is being said. But "Yes, you can call me a **** for disregarding the opinion of people who enjoy this game" ...does sound like kind of the opposite of actually arguing about something, doesn't it? That sounds a lot like "I have an opinion and you are wrong." So no, I think that's not constructive, because by doing that you're just dismissing your opposition from the very beginning and then there's really not much useful stuff that can come out of that.

@Ryika I'm not so sure why we're even arguing, considering that you probably modded the game beyond comprehension.

I actually have not. When I'm not working at mods, then I'm mostly playing unmodded (well, mostly - Ingame Editor is almost always active).

 

[Gorbles]

I list a fraction of the critical aspects the game lacks and you tell me the ones that correspond with wrong reasons, deal?

- a minimum amount of balance
- a challange
- actual strategical choices
- actual diplomacy
- cleverly interwoven core systems
- diverse factions
- awe-inspiring wonders
- replayability (a game that is deep enough to offer a different experience each time it is played)

1. Debatable, aimed at what AI difficulty / against what level of human competency? Game has already had a balance pass, as an example Acken (as a high-level player) has stated it doesn't target any of the issues he wants hit but removed abusive outliers.

2. Extremely debatable. Difficulty levels challenge different people differently. Actual MP against other humans is another level of challenge yet again.

3. Game . . . has them. Depends on what you mean by "actual". Also ties into balance - a quick nerf to Academies and Titanium alone would make improvements and resources more balanced and therefore raise competition for city placement and improvement choice.

4. Fair point, but this is generally lacking the first time around in any new Firaxis game. Favours are a nice step forward that - if you rack them up - actually do come in useful.

5. Depends on what you mean by "cleverly interwoven". All games are clever and require a significant amount of aptitude to design and create.

6. Completely customisable factions creates diversity, and each one scales aesthetically with Affinities. What you're possibly referring to is diversity in the context of balanced pre-game options?

7. Awe-inspiring Wonders would break game balance. No Wonder in CiV is "awe-inspiring".

8. Game already does that for me. Depends on personal satisfaction levels. CiV by dint of lacking Affinities is very similar each game I play; I judge satisfaction on a number of levels, but Quests (assuming fixed, bearing in mind I've repeatedly said that Firaxis needed to fix Quests before now) and Affinities provide both mechanical and aesthetic depth to my playthroughs and encourage a more unique experience each time than hunting Barbarians in CiV would.

 

[JokerJace]

I don't really see how that's an argument. Of course they're different games, however, the mechanics they use are mostly the same, just used for different purposes and with a generally different "design goal" in mind. So yes, as a person who mostly plays games for their mechanics and less so for storyline and whatever-else, it does indeed come down to how the game "feels" - and this one feels a lot faster paced and yet not like "rushing" (Like Civ 5 does when one plays on Fast to speed things up) - at least not until you get into the "gather all the affinity-techs"-phase. (It's rather interesting actually that, when BE was released, I was very much in the "That game is way too short."-state, but over time I started really liking that)

Wasn't supposed to be an argument for anything. I'm just saying the game has many flaws and while a faster pace is certainly welcome (CiVBNW lategame can feel like a drag, especially when it's obvious who will win after half of the game), it's quite irrelevant as long as the substential weaknesses remain.

Yes, that's perfectly acceptable - even more than that, it's a good thing and probably something that really brings the game forward if it helps the playerbase "make up their mind" and if the developers actually listen to what is being said. But "Yes, you can call me a **** for disregarding the opinion of people who enjoy this game" ...does sound like kind of the opposite of actually arguing about something, doesn't it? That sounds a lot like "I have an opinion and you are wrong." So no, I think that's not constructive, because by doing that you're just dismissing your opposition from the very beginning and then there's really not much useful stuff that can come out of that.

Yeah, well... 'I think the game is terrible and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong because of xyz' is a valid opinion, too. Even if it doesn't get substantiated in the very same post. Sometimes it's okay to just express an opinion. And it's not necessarily disrespectful to make an assumption about the reasons why someone likes something. In this case it's based on obersavation. Doesn't mean it's representative. It's just my personal conclusion. It can be totally wrong. But if it's perceived as hurtful, I will not state it anymore.

I actually have not. When I'm not working at mods, then I'm mostly playing unmodded (well, mostly - Ingame Editor is almost always active).

So here's one thing I was wrong about. I was certain you had at least 5 mods on at any given time.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

I don't think I've ever praised the game. I like the game but I think 90% of what I've said is criticism.

 

[Sherlock]

It will be interesting to compare the patch support on BE to another recent science fiction title - 'Gray goo'.

The GG team released their second patch today. Game's been out maybe a month. I have no doubt whatsoever there will be another patch in the next month. Why do I know this? They've said so.

Compare this to Firaxis, with all their resources and money, and how they've handled BE.

 

[Sherlock]

My thoughts exactly. If they release Starships while BE is still a pathetic pile of crap, I'm done with firaxis.

Yes, that is a disappointment likely to happen.

I will only purchase Firaxis games after reading extensive user comments.

NO MORE PRE-ORDERS.

EVER.

 

[Gorbles]

It will be interesting to compare the patch support on BE to another recent science fiction title - 'Gray goo'.

The GG team released their second patch today. Game's been out maybe a month. I have no doubt whatsoever there will be another patch in the next month. Why do I know this? They've said so.

Compare this to Firaxis, with all their resources and money, and how they've handled BE.

What resources do Firaxis have (including money), and how does this compare to Petroglyph? Bear in mind that the back was published by the invisible angel investors of Grey Box.

Also, Grey Goo. The name is very important

 

[Riker13]

Wow when I started this thread I didn't think I would knock down a hornets nest, it just goes to show the people on this site whether spouting the game negatively or not are passionate about it.

I came back to BE this week to give it another go only to still have the same bugs in the game, I am disappointed these have not been patched yet and I am disappointed that no member of Firaxis have been on this thread to tell us once and for all that BE will still be supported even though we are bringing out Starships, or not as the case may be.

Well I will get Starships (pending reviews) but I wont pre order any more, I am afraid that ship has sailed for me now.

Regards

Riker13

 

[Lexicus]

Wow when I started this thread I didn't think I would knock down a hornets nest, it just goes to show the people on this site whether spouting the game negatively or not are passionate about it.

Indeed they are, and why not? Civ has been a big part of my life and I'm sure it has been a big part of others' lives as well.

I am significantly more optimistic about BE than others seem to be, I remember well the state Civ 5 was in on release and how long it took to make it into a game that felt finished and fully fleshed-out.

 

[zerokarma]

The silence is deafening from Firaxis.

The creators and leads on the game hyped it up pre-release and were very active answering questions and providing information. However now that is out and has been met with a lot of negative feedback/reviews they have gone very quiet.

It's very disappointing that they delivered such a half-baked game, I expected a lot more from this game and it had the potential to be a lot better but I just have this feeling this game is very incomplete, it feels like they ran out of time and half-a*sed a lot of aspects of the game.

I wasn't expecting an exact new version of Alpha Centauri but I was expecting something better that what we currently have. The game just feels so generic and lacks immersion, the leaders/factions are bores, the wonders suck, the victory endings so underwhelming, the narrative is lost for the most part. The list of issues can go on and on...

I still hope that this game can be saved or salvaged somehow. It really needs a full expansion but I question if that would even be enough.

 

[ImperialGuard]

Yea, the 2K/Firaxis shills are quick to post when they want us to buy something, but otherwise .... nothing.

 

[Sherlock]

Indeed they are, and why not? Civ has been a big part of my life and I'm sure it has been a big part of others' lives as well.

I am significantly more optimistic about BE than others seem to be, I remember well the state Civ 5 was in on release and how long it took to make it into a game that felt finished and fully fleshed-out.

Civ is their bread and butter. The jewel in the crown. They will ALWAYS work on a Civ game to improve it and get steady sales.

Other games.... not so much.

 

[Lexicus]

Civ is their bread and butter. The jewel in the crown. They will ALWAYS work on a Civ game to improve it and get steady sales.

Other games.... not so much.

All I can tell you is, give it time, and remember how Civ V was at this point (~4 months?) after its release. You may be right but it is IMO premature to make declarations like "Firaxis is done with BE."

 

[Hail]

All I can tell you is, give it time, and remember how Civ V was at this point (~4 months?) after its release. You may be right but it is IMO premature to make declarations like "Firaxis is done with BE."

civ:be is a spin-off. it will never receive the love that their main civ serial does. civ4 also had a spin-off civ4:col. how much attention did civ4:col get?

besides that, Firaxis releases a civ game every five years. civ5 was released in september 2010. I expect to hear something about civ6 before autumn.

 

[Gorbles]

You're making very emphatic statements for someone who isn't employed by Firaxis.

Should be interesting to see what the facts turn out to be. I predict that if you're right, we won't hear the end of it, but if you're wrong you might just find something else to complain about instead!

 

[Acken]

When they decide to reveal these "facts" that is.

 

[Kutuzov]

It should be as clear as the sun on a cloudless day that there is going to be at least one more patch for this game. They will have to do some coding in order to enable players to transition from Civ BE to Starships. In addition, they have been fixing bugs as well. You'd have to be a real die-hard pessimist with your head buried in the ground up to your shoulders to believe that we're not going to get that.

But as for further support, none of us are in a position to say one way or the other. All we can do is put our own personal optimism/pessimism on display for all the other members of this community to see and nothing more. No matter how reassuring it is for you to see that there are many who share your feelings, it still proves absolutely nothing.

Frustrating as it is for all of us, we're just going to have to wait until Starships is released before we'll know more.

 

[Gort]

All I can tell you is, give it time, and remember how Civ V was at this point (~4 months?) after its release. You may be right but it is IMO premature to make declarations like "Firaxis is done with BE."

Civ 5, players on steam 4 months after release: 39,677
Civ BE, players on steam 4 months after release: 3,536

Even if your point is that Civ 5 was also in a bad state at this point in its life, the playerbase certainly wasn't. How do you explain that?

 

[Ryika]

Well, part of that is certainly that Civ 5 didn't have a predecessor that was as similar to Civ 5 as Civ 5 is to Beyond Earth. Civ4 was very different and especially for those who were new to the series (and those were many, as Civ 5 was pretty much the first game in the series that all sorts of players enjoyed instead of that "traditional" Civ-player) didn't even see it as a valid alternative that they could choose instead.

I'd say if the roles were switched and BE was the game that came first, had massive success and 2 addons that fixed a lot of problems, then Civ 5 would have had a harder time, too.