Some Greek Units

[Bakuel]

Inspired by the excellent Alexander Project I made some Greek units and have uploaded them into the database.

Greek Ancient Age Unit Pack

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12698


Greek Middle Age Unit Pack

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12699


I also finished a old request by primordial stew

Thraex,

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12700


Please tell me if there is anything wrong with the units or download and feel free to comment state what you like, hate, what you would have done differently and so on.

 

[The Capo]

Very nice Bakuel! As usual you have outdone yourself. And just in time to go along with those new Greek leaders I have made.

Anyway this set is awesome, I like how you have different versions of many of the units to add even more flavor to Greece.

 

[achilleszero]

Outstanding work as always. Ive been aching for better/more diverse greek units. And that gladiator looks way better than the one I was working on.

 

[Bakuel]

I'm glad you like the units the Capo!
You actually have Walter Hawkwood to thank for all of the different flavors, he proved so much interesting reference art that I just had to make a lot. Even though I have to admit, after making all of these Greeks I can't help but wince whenever I see a picture of a hoplite...

@achilleszero
Thanks for the kind words! I agree that Greece was a civ that needed some better flavor units for a long time now, hopefully these will suffice for the early ages for a while.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Well, looks like you're pretty much on your way to becoming arguably one of the greatest unit makers here. You seriously have to try a 300 style machine gunner or tank or something.

Looks like the Byzantines are next?

 

[mamba]

Nice set, was looking forward to it

 

[Bakuel]

I'm glad you like the units mamba!


@cybrxkhan
If I ever make a Greek Machinegunner it won't be 300 style.

Byzantine is next! You should see it within two weeks or so if everything goes according to plan.

 

[The Capo]

I better get to work on the lighting for the Alexander the Great LH...

 

[avain]

Holy Mad Cow and a Half Calf!!!
Oh,the diversity!
But jokes aside ... this is utter brilliance, Bakuel.
I'll have trouble fitting in all the different flavours, but this is a sweet problem!
Thank you!!!

 

[Bakuel]

Thanks avian! Too much diversity is always better then too little. I just hope people don't come to expect this much for every unit set.

 

[achilleszero]

Bakuel, just a heads up that in the ancient age pack the animation directions is the same one as the middle age pack.

And just out of curiosity, the helmet on your gladiator looks almost identicle to the one I made, but was never quite satisfied with it and never released it. I combined and moved around the vertexes of a vanilla knights head and the brim of the cavalry hat. What did you use?

 

[Bakuel]

Thanks for the notice achilleszero, I replaced fixed it.

Here are the animation directions if anyone doesn't want to redownload the file,

Both Greek Horseman uses the Persian Immortal animations
All flavors of Phalanx use the vanillia Greek Phalanx animations.
All flavors of Swordsman use the Sumerian Vulture animations
The Archer uses the Egyptian Archer animations
The Chariot uses the vanilla Chariot animations
The Spearman uses the vanilla Greek Phalanx animations
The Thracian Peltast uses the Mali Skirmisher animations.


As for the Thraex model, actually I made the helmet (and the leg armor) from scratch and put it on a modified scout model (the helmet is on top of the scout's head and body, the scout's face is deleted though). The shield is based off of a modified (shortened) Praetorian's with a new shield boss. The weapon is also made from scratch.

 

[Berenthor]

These look really amazing Bakuel. I have been wondering about how to diversify Macedonia from Greece and you just provided the answer . Small question about the shields: these were the emblems used by Alexander? I know about the rayed sun but I didn't konw about the other emblem (the middle age pack I mean now, it has two emblems on the screenshots, the sun and another one).

Anyways: great job

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Now we just need WWI/WWII Greek units to unleash against the Turks.

 

[achilleszero]

Bakuel: Thats crazy that out of all the possible designs for a gladiators we picked the same style to go after. Except I made a trident for mine. I guess we have the same ideas about what looks cool.

2 more questions: 1)In all your research did you come across any design for any type of greek axeman or axe type weapons? Just curious if they used them, Im fine with phalanx/hoplites. 2)For your theban hoplite is that just a run of the mill Theban, or is it anywhere close to what the Sacred Band of thebes looked like (wanted to make one but cant find any source material)

These look really amazing Bakuel. I have been wondering about how to diversify Macedonia from Greece and you just provided the answer

Berenthor, I was just about to suggest these in over in your brainstorming thread.

 

[Bakuel]

Thanks for the kind words MadmanOfALeader! Some WW1 Greeks would be nice... Not that I'm going to create them or anything.

@achilleszero
The refernce art that Walter Hawkwood provided actually did mark that unit as a part of the Sacred Band. However, I don't know if there is any hard archaeological or archival evidence on how the sacred band looked or even if they where uniformed or just wore similar armor to everyone else. The Sacred Band only lasted for about fifty years, before they got destroyed in battle by the Macedonians under Philip II. Not exactly a long lasting military order so archaeological evidence is probably a bit scarce. You can probably ask Walter Hawkwood though, since he provided the refernce art he probably knows a lot more about this topic then me.
Edit: Opps, I forgot, to answer your question about the axes. I have never seen any evidence of ancient greeks using war axes. Persians seem to have used axes and "war picks"(for lack of a better term) but I have never seen any image of greeks using axes of any type. There may be some, but I've never seen it.

@Berenthor
As for the shield design, that was based on this pic provided by Walter Hawkwood in the attachment, which I think is from a Total War mod. As for whether or not the design was used, I don't really know, like the Sacred Band, you'll just have to ask Walter Hawkwood. He provided most of the art. I will say that it is very similar to some other pictures of Macedonian designs on shields and coins that I have saw so I admit I made it without thinking. The basic circular design of "something" sorrunded by 5 or 6 circle designs (open and closed, some moon shapes with stars in them .etc) seems to be quite widespread. However I cannot point you to the exact design that the modder based his shield off of.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Time for me to chime in with some random bits of knowledge, I presume.

The concept of "uniform" was generally unknown in Ancient Greece. When we speak of units from a particular polis, we shouldn't think in terms of "uniform", but more in terms of "fashion". All archeological evidence can give us is some glimpses of how a typical warrior from a certain era and place would look like. Some groups, especially aspiring to elite status, could adopt some distinguishing marks to tell each other apart in battle (like hypaspists later on putting Alexander's portrait on their shields), but we can't even tell if this practice was common.

Therefore, all symbols depicted on shields can be considered circumstantial - the ones that have reached us were simply a fraction of many more used. Some could have been more popular - especially if they are easy to depict, like Macedonian sun - but they were in no way enforced. Therefore, theoretically, anyone could paint their shields anything they liked.

The only exception to this rule would be Sparta, where a concept of uniform would naturally stem from uniformity of society itself. Being different could mean your ruin in Spartan rigid society, and therefore, despite not being enforced, traditional colors and letter "L" on the shields, as well as more archaic (but tradition-enforced) arms and weapon designs were largely predominant.

If you look for axe wielding units in Greek history, there isn't much evidence for those. Archers would wield handaxes in close combat (they would be more tools for fletching arrows then weapons), and there is poetic evidence that axes were used in Heroic era - Homer's Ajax wields a two-handed axe, IIRC. Likewise, axes would be carried by many warriors of Alexander's army, but once again more as a tool than as a weapon. Axe could (and would) be a weapon of choice for Celtic mercenaries in Greek service of Hellenistic era, along with Celtic longsword. Warfare style adopted by Greeks left little room for axe-armed infantry on the battlefield - closed formations, spear and pike prevalence, large shields - least ideal conditions for using an axe.

 

[The_J]

Why did i not create a historical mod ?

These units look totally beautiful. A shame, that i can't use them.

 

[achilleszero]

Walter Hawkwood, thanks for the info. Dont really care about greek axes in the game at least just wanting to learn a little. I rather like that Greece says to hell with the other civs and brings their spears to an axe fight.

Bakuel: If you and Walter Hawkwood keep spoiling everyone with all these large, great unit packs one after another, were gona get start getting withdrawals if you ever take another break.

 

[Bakuel]

Thanks The_J! I kinda hope that some of these units will tempt a few modders to create historical scenarios and mods.

@achilleszero I hope people don't expect all of the other unit packs to be this big...