Spanking kids usefull and needed till when?

[Merkinball]

So are you saying that Arabs grow up to be better adjusted? Who's side are you on, exactly, in the war on terra?

There are some aspects of Arab society that I admire. Some that I don't like. As I like the way that Arab kids are respectful to others and themselves, I also don't like how they never seem to smile in public. I see no reason why I can't support some elements of Arab culture and support the War on Terra at the same time.

if they were beat any harder or longer I think it would constitute as a legitimate child abuse case. - Shadylookin

Then so be it. Again, kids act out because they don't fear the consequences of their actions. If these kids are acting out, and getting spanked, it's obviously not enough to scare them into sublime submission. There were probably a number of times where my dad, according to law, abused me. When I was very young his tools included this 1 and half by one and a half inch length of wood, as well as a leather belt. Harsh tools in the chest, but all it took would be a dirty look if I was acting up to make me remember the potential wrath that would follow if I continued what I was doing wrong. By the time I was ten, I had learned good and well not to do ANYTHING wrong. My parents never really had to punish me beyond that age, much less lay a hand on me.

I don't think it necessarily should be used at all ages. I think there are better ways to hit older kids where it hurts. But especially for young kids, I don't think there is a more effective deterant for young kids (toddlers, 2 year olds), than the negative stimuli of pain. Pain is universal. Pain is something that even in the most simple of lab animals, draws a desired result. Mice don't eat the electrified cheese because they are afraid of getting shocked. Kids won't act out at Wal*Mart because they fear the consequences.

you mean those third world countries with 14 year old soldiers shooting random people? would you want to walk in the middle of a in a third world country at night? I'm sure the people that will mug, rape, kidnap, or otherwise harm you will be glad to know how well disciplined you think they were as children.

I feel just as safe walking around Djibouti City, and Addis Ababa at night. Anywhere in those cities really. As safe is in my hometown, more safe than in Rochester, and much more safe than in Buffalo. One reason I like Djibouti so much is because I feel so much safer and content there than I do while I'm here in America.

 

[Shadylookin]

Then so be it. Again, kids act out because they don't fear the consequences of their actions. If these kids are acting out, and getting spanked, it's obviously not enough to scare them into sublime submission. There were probably a number of times where my dad, according to law, abused me. When I was very young his tools included this 1 and half by one and a half inch length of wood, as well as a leather belt. Harsh tools in the chest, but all it took would be a dirty look if I was acting up to make me remember the potential wrath that would follow if I continued what I was doing wrong. By the time I was ten, I had learned good and well not to do ANYTHING wrong. My parents never really had to punish me beyond that age, much less lay a hand on me.

I don't think it necessarily should be used at all ages. I think there are better ways to hit older kids where it hurts. But especially for young kids, I don't think there is a more effective deterant for young kids (toddlers, 2 year olds), than the negative stimuli of pain. Pain is universal. Pain is something that even in the most simple of lab animals, draws a desired result. Mice don't eat the electrified cheese because they are afraid of getting shocked. Kids won't act out at Wal*Mart because they fear the consequences.

you're seriously suggesting physical abuse of a child? You advising people to break the law and beat children with an intent to harm is fine, but a kid that steps on your sandcastle is an ass? Odd sense of priorities there.

 

[Elta]

Terra

You guys gotta stop doing that Since I am a sciene fiction goon and speak spanish everythime I read it it looks like earth to me alltouh I admit he does say it like that

 

[Rossiya]

As for the second part of the OP question, I think I would say a child could be spanked until around 10 years of age.

 

[Merkinball]

you're seriously suggesting physical abuse of a child? You advising people to break the law and beat children with an intent to harm is fine, but a kid that steps on your sandcastle is an ass? Odd sense of priorities there. - Shadylookin

Okay Mr. "moral relativism." Who's to say that a crack on the bum from a leather belt is really abusive and with "intent to harm?" I said, "by law." So far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't harm the kid permenantly, it's not really abusive. I really have no problems with what my father did to me in the most extreme circumstances and would say that it was probably well warranted, and did more good in the long run, than bad in the short run. My father didn't take those measure's with intent to harm me. He did them with intent of eleviating the same thing, or other bad things, from happening in the long run.

The little kid that was bounding about me sandcastle WAS being an ass. But it wasn't his fault. I don't fault the child, I wasn't upset at the child. I fault the parent. And I wasn't necessarily upset at the parents for letting the kids bother me. I was really upset that they weren't keeping an eye on their kids when rip currents were all over the place that day, the ocean was rough, and their children were running into the ocea, getting knocked over, and almost swept out.

 

[Shadylookin]

Okay Mr. "moral relativism." Who's to say that a crack on the bum from a leather belt is really abusive and with "intent to harm?" I said, "by law." So far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't harm the kid permenantly, it's not really abusive. I really have no problems with what my father did to me in the most extreme circumstances and would say that it was probably well warranted, and did more good in the long run, than bad in the short run. My father didn't take those measure's with intent to harm me. He did them with intent of eleviating the same thing, or other bad things, from happening in the long run.

breaking every bone in your body isn't permanently damaging in a physical sense I would say that it's excessive. If you're hitting someone with a leather belt your intent is to cause pain. A slap on the bum isn't suppose to cause a lot of pain and is more to show who's boss, but I think beating a child with a belt is too much.

 

[Merkinball]

If you're hitting someone with a leather belt your intent is to cause pain. A slap on the bum isn't suppose to cause a lot of pain and is more to show who's boss, but I think beating a child with a belt is too much. - Shadylookin

In some cases a slap on the bum is enough. But the fact of the matter is that kids, starting at a very young age, will try and test their parents. It's a control issue. If kids learn from a very young age that they can take advantage of their parents, they will do it every step of the way. From then, until young adulthood. And probably won't correct their path unless something VERY bad happens to them.

Nobody wants to harm their kids. Intent to cause pain is not intent to harm. Well, I suppose there are some genuinely abusive alcoholic bastards out there that get some sort of satisfaction out of beating their kids...but your general populace that's using physical force to correct a child would much rather child just be good in the first place, then have to hit them to correct something they did wrong.

Correcting these aggressions, and tests, while they are young, is much better than letting them fester all through childhood. The real danger begins once these kids become teenagers. If you haven't etched in their mind that you are the adult, and that you are in control, then you're gonna have issues to deal with.

 

[mdwh]

You're joking right ?
Anyway....
Paddling in the clasroom should be allowed and RECOMENDED.

I got paddled a lot (with a ruler not a paddle) in grades 1-4 and i have to say it was a good thing.

You may ask why is spanking by parents MUCH worse than being spanked at school. Simple.
In school everything is clear - you have to obey some rules. If you disobey you will get some wodden rulers over your palms or other stuff like that.
At home things are different - your parents love you. Then why are they beating/spanking you ? Shouldn't they be more forgiving ? Why do they say they love you after ?

The teacher does not have many options when dealing with breaking of rules. (who the hell cared about bad grades or being made to sit in the corner) Therfore some slaps on the hands are good.

She is the teacher, she is evil, of course she slaps you with a ruler - it's normal for her to do that.
But your parents say they are good. They say hitting people is evil. Then why are they hitting ?

Do you see where i'm going with this ? It's the fact that they aren't how you imagined them to be.
You might say "life is full of disapointments, deal with it". Of course it's true, but 4-5year old children should NOT have to deal with these things.

I'm not sure I follow - it's good for teachers to spank, because teaches are evil and that's what evil people do?

 

[jeps]

not only can teaches not hit, paddle, or anything, as a result of a complaint, there was a memo that my friend (a secondary school teacher) got, saying that teachers are not allowed to comment on student's clothes, hair, or appearance (I like your haircut! or Where did you get those pants?) or risk suspension/fired.

 

[Ansar]

You guys gotta stop doing that Since I am a sciene fiction goon and speak spanish everythime I read it it looks like earth to me alltouh I admit he does say it like that

When I saw it, I thought of earth/land to me too.

not only can teaches not hit, paddle, or anything, as a result of a complaint, there was a memo that my friend (a secondary school teacher) got, saying that teachers are not allowed to comment on student's clothes, hair, or appearance (I like your haircut! or Where did you get those pants?) or risk suspension/fired.

Bah, girls and teachers (female and gay male) are always complementing each other on their outfit.

 

[jeps]

only in TDSB, PDSB, YRDSB, and maybe DDSB

and as for the gay males, how do you know...? (with metrosexuality and all)

 

[Ansar]

and as for the gay males, how do you know...? (with metrosexuality and all)

My school has the stereotypical gays.

 

[robo-snickers]

i wont spank my kids, i will beat them

 

[Tee Kay]

Spanking kids are never useful and never needed.

But yeah I'm just a kid. What do I know?

 

[Grisu]

You're joking right ?

not at all, maybe a bit exagerrating since merely thinking about it won't get him to lose his job, but doing it surely would..

Anyway....
Paddling in the clasroom should be allowed and RECOMENDED.

not at all, Paddling should be banned alltogether. And the only ones who should to some extent be allowed to phisically discipline children is their parents certainly not some teacher.

They say hitting people is evil. Then why are they hitting ?

that's exactly why they shouldn't hit, simple as that. If they say hitting is evil, why don't they stop the teacher from doing it?

 

[Heretic_Cata]

I'm not sure I follow - it's good for teachers to spank, because teaches are evil and that's what evil people do?

Correct.
But i'd like to add something to that. Teachers are evil because they HAVE TO BE evil in school, not because they ARE evil.

Or at least that is what my mind came up when trying to explain why i feel like that particular part of my education was just right.

not at all, Paddling should be banned alltogether. And the only ones who should to some extent be allowed to phisically discipline children is their parents certainly not some teacher.

To quote from a nice movie: "Your logic is correct - but so is mine."
I guess banning that might be somewhat good. Maybe my mind was just set to "teachers are evil" when i was a kid. (you know, all that "we don't need no education" stuff) So i was expecting her to hit us. However i never expected such a thing from my parents.

that's exactly why they shouldn't hit, simple as that. If they say hitting is evil, why don't they stop the teacher from doing it?

Yea ... but the first step is to make parents stop hitting their children - since that is a lot more important and traumatic for a child. After that, they should make the teachers stop.
Doing that the other way around would make a child feel like in prison at home and free at school. That doesn't sound very healthy in the long run.

 

[Truronian]

While it can be useful in the short term, I don't think its ever needed. Ironic punishments work better...