Which is why I am pretty sure that there is not an “exactly two” rule. Instead more of an “at least two” most of the time.
I’d say at least 2 different civs are the unlock for a given one, and most civs will have at least 2 civs they unlock, but some may have 1 in the base game(Aksum->Songhai->Buganda, Mississippi->Inca->Mexico)
I'm suspecting that we'll get Ottomans in the base game due to the civ unlock reasons:
They are a decent fit for Songhai - a culture left with only one modern unlock otherwise. And they also work well as a continuation for Mongols and Abbasids. Therefore Russia can be excluded from the scheme as only Mongols unlock it and there is place in the base game for Britain that will be unlocked by Spain and Normans. Or maybe even Chola, though I'm doubtful about this one.
Alternatively, we will have quite silly Normans->Russia, and some other modern unlock for Songhai. Saadis? Wait, can we have Songhai->Britain? I mean, if we can have Inca->America, which is likely based on the scheme... but I will be very surprised if it's the direction FRX decided to take.
In any case there is no place for Germany in the base game.
Therefore Russia can be excluded from the scheme as only Mongols unlock it and there is place in the base game for Britain that will be unlocked by Spain and Normans. Or maybe even Chola, though I'm doubtful about this one.
Normans were shown to have two unlocks only (at least in the build we were shown), one of them being France. So they if they unlocked Britain, they could not unlock America. So we would have America with no European predecessors. Which is possible, I suppose.
I don't think they'll be strict. They can't be once DLC comes out, too, since that will invariably cause shifts that won't be equal depending on which DLC people own.
What I'm more curious about is whether every civ will have a gameplay unlock, or not. I feel at some point it's going to be a lot of civs out there that trying to come up with some unique unlock criteria for each is really going to be trouble. If they try to do that, you're going to end up with some weird choices and links to unlock some of the civs. Or you're going to get duplicates where building a few galleys magically unlocks like 3 naval-based civs for the next era.
Normans were shown to have two unlocks only (at least in the build we were shown), one of them being France. So they if they unlocked Britain, they could not unlock America. So we would have America with no European predecessors. Which is possible, I suppose.
I don't think preview build is enough indication for such details. Actually unlocks is something developers could be balancing until the release (and after release as well) as that's the thing, which is really easy to change without breaking anything.
I don't think preview build is enough indication for such details. Actually unlocks is something developers could be balancing until the release (and after release as well) as that's the thing, which is really easy to change without breaking anything.
But equally, devs will be quite careful about not showing things that may change where they can help it to avoid setting incorrect expectations. I think its a reasonable and relatively safe assumption to make.
I don't think preview build is enough indication for such details. Actually unlocks is something developers could be balancing until the release (and after release as well) as that's the thing, which is really easy to change without breaking anything.
It is easy to implement any change, but designing the change is not as easy. If you want to keep these somewhat balanced you cannot change just one without consideration of the others. This is the sort of thing that you sort out shortly after you know which Civs are in and then only touch in emergencies. So I would be fairly confident that the final list already exists, if only in an Excel file or something.
But yeah, we don't know what state the build was in, so there is the possibility that some Civs had not been in the build, yet. But for example the antiquity civ selection screen matched with what has been announced later
It is easy to implement any change, but designing the change is not as easy. If you want to keep these somewhat balanced you cannot change just one without consideration of the others. This is the sort of thing that you sort out shortly after you know which Civs are in and then only touch in emergencies. So I would be fairly confident that the final list already exists, if only in an Excel file or something.
But yeah, we don't know what state the build was in, so there is the possibility that some Civs had not been in the build, yet. But for example the antiquity civ selection screen matched with what has been announced later
That would make sense, but I don't think it will be true 100%. I mean, Mongolia is a civ that easily supports a quest (horse lords), but also has some big personalities that 100% at some point in the dev cycle we're getting Genghis and/or Kublai. They might have that as a guideline early on, but I doubt it will be a "rule".
I think every civ will have a gameplay unlock, no matter how many DLC civs are in the game eventually. Maybe some are just pretty easy/similar to unlock and the unlock is not that interesting. E.g., 20 pops on the new continent might unlock Brazil, 5 mines on the new continent might unlock Australia, 2 cities (not towns) might unlock America, and often you'd get all three with the same strategies. I don't think it's a problem if the player has usually 15+ civ choices per era.
I think every civ will have a gameplay unlock, no matter how many DLC civs are in the game eventually. Maybe some are just pretty easy/similar to unlock and the unlock is not that interesting. E.g., 20 pops on the new continent might unlock Brazil, 2 cities (not towns) might unlock America, and often you'd get both with the same strategies. I don't think it's a problem if the player has usually 15+ civ choices per era.
I think that is likely the case too. Wouldn't make much sense, on the antiquity stream, for the pick next civilization on transition screen to show all 11 options (assuming 10 plus pre oder civ) for exploration, even though some weren't unlocked on that run, if some of them couldn't be unlocked at all by being Rome.
I'd say it differently - the only reason to lock civs is to provider means to unlock them through gameplay efforts. If there are no such unlocks, it's just artificial limit. I.e. if you start as Egypt and don't have any means to unlock Normans or Shawnee, it's just less options to choose from without any game benefits.
Normans were shown to have two unlocks only (at least in the build we were shown), one of them being France. So they if they unlocked Britain, they could not unlock America. So we would have America with no European predecessors. Which is possible, I suppose.
Hmm. Now that I think about it, Normans not unlocking America kind of makes sense.
America can be a gameplay unlock (something-something other side of the map). And leader unlock. And then in Crossroads of the World we get exploration England, which will have America and Britain as historical paths.
Hmm. Now that I think about it, Normans not unlocking America kind of makes sense.
America can be a gameplay unlock (something-something other side of the map). And leader unlock. And then in Crossroads of the World we get exploration England, which will have America and Britain as historical paths.
It would be a bit weird to have both Normans and England as civs of the same age. Possible, sure, but I believe we could only see it once more obvious options will be exhausted. And there are way more other options from around the world.
It would be a bit weird to have both Normans and England as civs of the same age. Possible, sure, but I believe we could only see it once more obvious options will be exhausted. And there are way more other options from around the world.
I think some civ paths might be 1:1:1, but if one civ leads to two in the next era, then both of these next era civs need to have alternative paths to make sure that you are not "stealing" the only way forward for it to evolve.
Leaders I think unlock 4 or maybe even 5 civs, being at least one on each era and more than one in the era that this leader represents. Such as Augustus unlocking Rome and Greece + Spain + (probably France).
And the quest unlocks will be easy enough to make sure that you can reach any civ through any path you might want.
I've been thinking along these lines for a while. Russia seems very superfluous, because, as mentioned, the Mongols and Normans have the best shot of unlocking them, and both have so many connections to other civs that it makes Russia look silly.
Germany is in a similar situation, but at least the Norman connection looks a little more solid.
But what does Spain unlock? Britain? France? France seems okay-ish, but not great. Germany is slightly less appealing, but you could at least say that both were ruled by Habsburgs.
But if we had Mexico, it would be a perfect transition for Spain, as well as giving a non-American option to the Inca and Shawnee that isn't on a whole other continent.
TLDR: using this method, Russia and Germany look equally tenuous, but at least Germany has the Panzer. Mexico looks like it is needed.
I'd say it differently - the only reason to lock civs is to provider means to unlock them through gameplay efforts. If there are no such unlocks, it's just artificial limit. I.e. if you start as Egypt and don't have any means to unlock Normans or Shawnee, it's just less options to choose from without any game benefits.
And then, at least from what I got from one interview, the unlock system itself is, partially, to limit too much choice at once, to not get the player overwhelmed with what they would pick next. In particular when they're new to the game. If you go next age and has 11 options, it would take a long time analyzing every one, what each them do, and can lead to someone just picking any instead of evaluate the options they have. And that is at release, later on the options will just increase more and more.
E.g., 20 pops on the new continent might unlock Brazil, 5 mines on the new continent might unlock Australia, 2 cities (not towns) might unlock America, and often you'd get all three with the same strategies. I don't think it's a problem if the player has usually 15+ civ choices per era.
On this part, I don't mind requirements being too similar. But I think they need to be more gameplay than thematic. For example, the idea of having settlements on the new continent unlocking America makes sense thematically, but don't think it is a good choice for unlock if it is doesn't work gameplay wise. If America is a civ that bonuses are focused on having cities in multiple continents and the like, then that would work, but if not then I think the unlock has to be something else.
The reason being, I think the unlock works better if they are well tuned with the bonuses the civ gives, so you naturally unlock civs that work well with what you have accomplished so far. Sadly the only example we have been revealed for gameplay unlock so far is Mongolia, and horses is something that would likely work with it both thematically and gameplay wise, so we don't know exactly if they will work on one way or the other.
So for example, if America has no bonuses about having cities in multiple continent I would rather the unlock have nothing to do with that. Instead, it be an unlock for lets says, Britain, if it has bonuses for that if the civ is based on Britain imperialism.
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