Speed Limits - Yea or Nay?

[hobbsyoyo]

That is not completely accurate. A vehicle which strikes another vehicle in the rear when one is doing 145 and the other is doing 125 imparts very little energy.

OTOH a vehicle striking another vehicle head-on when both are traveling at 45 mph does.

The interstate system in the US is designed to allow safe vehicular traffic at essentially any speed.

I am aware of what you describe in your first sentence.

But if you rear end someone at 145 you are going to veer off course and likely flip your vehicle or both. Then you die. Any off-center acclereation or deceleration at that speed will prove catastrophic; it's a rare scenario where you rear end someone perfectly through both vehicles center of mass. Anything short of that is a recipe for disaster.


One major flaw of the interstate system is that they built it too straight. They thought the curves of the autobahn were simply wasteful and deleted them when they built our system. What they didn't realize was that the curves were intended to combat driver fatigue by forcing them to constantly steer.

It's a pretty big flaw, but on the whole I'd agree the interstate system is pretty spectacular.

I dont know about elsewhere but in Nova Scotia you have to pay a rather steep fee to use the ambulance.

If you have decent insurance in the US, that generally covers the ambulance fee. If you have no insurance or crappy insurance, you're out of luck. Well I guess not if you happen to live in a remote part of Alaska. I think they get Life Flights for free.

Doesn't Canadian social healthcare cover the cost of an ambulance?

 

[Formaldehyde]

It's my experience that people who speed overestimate the average speed of traffic.

You should try driving in the US before making such assertions. It is quite true. The only communities which strictly enforce the speed limits in the US are known as "speed traps". Everyplace else allows 10-15 mph over the limit under most circumstances. The only time where this really isn't true is in school crossing zones.

I have even been tailgated by a cop before for not driving at least 10 mph over the limit in a residential area.

But if you rear end someone at 145 you are going to veer off course and likely flip your vehicle or both. Then you die. Any off-center acclereation or deceleration at that speed will prove catastrophic; it's a rare scenario where you rear end someone perfectly through both vehicles center of mass. Anything short of that is a recipe for disaster.

Again, the reality of the situation completely disagrees with your notion that most everybody dies in any accident over 60 mph. Most accidents do not involve striking immovable objects. And even when they do, many people now survive them at even higher rates of speed.

If they were the death traps which you imagine them to be, the autobahn system would have been condemned long ago. And nobody would be allowed to travel at greater than 45 mph or so under any circumstances, instead of twice that speed on the extremely congested LA freeway system every single day.

 

[Zelig]

You should try driving in the US before making such assertions. It is quite true. The only communities which strictly enforce the speed limits in the US are known as "speed traps". Everyplace else allows 10-15 mph over the limit under most circumstances. The only time where this really isn't true is in school crossing zones.

I've driven in the US, but because of your obsolete system of measurement I never know what the speed limit is or how fast I'm going.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well, there you go!

If you were pacing traffic flow, you were typically going 10 mph over the limit. If you were pacing traffic flow on the LA freeways during rush hour in the faster lanes, you were doing 30+ over the limit at times. That is, when traffic was moving at all...

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I have even been tailgated by a cop before for not driving at least 10 mph over the limit in a residential area.

Isn't it strange when a cop tailgates you? I always feel awkward cause I'm already breaking the speed limit and s/he obviously is wanting to go faster...

Again, the reality of the situation completely disagrees with your notion that most everybody dies in any accident over 60 mph. Most accidents do not involve striking immovable objects. And even when they do, many people now survive them at even higher rates of speed.

If they were the death traps which you imagine them to be, the autobahn system would have been condemned long ago. And nobody would be allowed to travel at greater than 45 mph or so under any circumstances, instead of twice that speed on the extremely congested LA freeway system every single day.

•Speed was a factor in 30 percent (12,477) of all traffic fatalities in 1998, second only to alcohol (39 percent) as a cause of fatal crashes.
•Crash forces on impact double with every 10 mile per hour increase in speed above 50 miles per hour. As crash forces increase, so does one's chances of being killed or seriously injured in a crash. (NHTSA, 1995)
•Travel speeds increased on Interstate highways in the states that raised their speed limits after Congress repealed the National Maximum Speed Limit in 1995. Increased travel speeds historically have led to increased traffic fatalities. (IIHS, 1999)
•In the 24 states that raised their speed limits in late 1995 and in 1996, fatalities on Interstate highways increased 15 percent. Deaths on other roadways where speed limits were not raised were unchanged. (IIHS, 1998)

Source

I hope you realize I'm not saying you can't safely drive fast. You can, and most people do. I've been trying to point out that when accidents happen at that speed, they are always serious and very often fatal. That they do not happen that often (relative to the total number of cars on the road and miles traveled every day) is a testament to the fact that you can drive that fast.

All I'm saying is that at 120mph, if you are in just about any crash, there is a very large chance you will die. Above 65mph, you really can't avoid serious injury if you are in an accident. That in no way guarantees you will have an accident, but it does practically guarantee a major injury.

And yes, 'everybody dies' is an exaggeration.

 

[Quackers]

"European" is a very wide category in this context. Try to make your way through urban traffic in Italy and we talk again.

thats quite a..stressful task initally but after crossing the road a few times you get used to it. just stride full of pride across and ignore the hurtling metal boxes coming at you

 

[metatron]

It doesn't require a vastly larger amount of competence to operate a motor vehicle at 100 mph compared to 80. And much of the US population drives at that speed on the interstates a regular basis without anything terrible occurring. And that is even without being sufficiently alert much of the time.

My point was not about some form of general competence but about different environments requiring different skillssets and a different attitude.
Actually for the most part my point was about people not realising this and being overconfident as a result.

I speculated that the US has more drivers who are unused to one environment or the other, for the reasons X, Y, Z that are virtually all based on the US and US metropoleis being absurdely big.

That is not meant disrespectful either. Cause thought to the end it means that the US demand more (chance, effort etc. depending on how you want to spin it) to be an adequate yet not overconfident driver in all environments.

I am of course basing this that on the idea that driving on an 8 lane motor way i the city is very much not the same thing as the use of a highway in rural Nevada.
If you feel the latter is untrue my argument falls apart for i can of course hardly contest your judgement.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

If you have decent insurance in the US, that generally covers the ambulance fee. If you have no insurance or crappy insurance, you're out of luck. Well I guess not if you happen to live in a remote part of Alaska. I think they get Life Flights for free.

Doesn't Canadian social healthcare cover the cost of an ambulance?

No. It costs $137 or so

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Metatron:

This link has a lot of information on the differences in crash and fatality rates between rural and urban driving in the US.

No. It costs $137 or so

Oh. I don't really consider that a 'steep fee'. In the US, without insurance (there are about 50 million or so of us in that category) it costs thousands to ride in an ambulance - even if that is the only way to get to a hospital and not die. $137 for a life saving service isn't that much to me in the scheme of things.

 

[metatron]

Metatron:

This link has a lot of information on the differences in crash and fatality rates between rural and urban driving in the US.

Thanks.

But it doesn't really help. To assess the value of my speculation i'd have to compare the ratio of accidents involving at least one driver being beyond a certain distance from their primary residence (actually that still bad but i can hardly hope for anything better) vs. total accidents and compare that to the same ratio here or in the EU in general or whatever.
I doubt that data exists/is readily accessible.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I'm skeptical to what extent speed limits are actually for our safety, especially with how low they are here on Long Island. Owen's "Cultural thing" in California is even worse in Long Island, the speed limit on the LIE is 55mph but people drive, safely, up to 80 or even 90 mph.

The rule should really be "Are you driving safely?" Not "Are you driving past an arbitrary speed?"

There may be some practical issues there but in theory its the way to go. People who drive over the speed limit safely should not get a ticket (And especially not "All the time.")

I like this idea.

Freedom for security to the ultimate....

Not everywhere. Some counties have contested cameras as an infringement of rights. Moreover they're used at traffic lights to stop red light infractions, not to stop speeders. I guarantee you if they implemented a camera/plate recognition system for the US and ticketed every speeder the public backlash would be unparalleled.

And rightly so.

Because it's largely controllable. If you don't drive recklessly (over 85 on the freeway, or weave through traffic), and you keep a reasonable awareness of where the cops are, you won't get a ticket.

It's a cultural thing. Most Californians are conditioned to the game the cops make us play. One reason we hate speed traps so much is that they aren't controllable. When you get a ticket, short of slamming on the brakes there is very little you can actually do to avoid it. Likewise red lights. (And don't give me crap like "don't speed then" because this is California, that is simply not going to happen.)

To be honest I think you are really just having difficulty grasping what car culture in California is like. It's difficult to understand even for out-of-state Americans, but for us speeding is the norm. A 65 sign means 70-80, and a 40 sign means 45-55. Try going the speed limit in California and see what happens. I guarantee you in my state you are more likely to cause an accident by going the speed limit than you are by participating in accepted speeding practices.

Yeah, its a lot like that in Long Island, except on the LIE if it says "Speed limit 55" it really means "You are going to die if you drive 55" My mom has driven 70 on it and gotten passsed repetetively while doing so. 80 is fairly normal.

I've heard (Although I can't confirm) that they don't even usually bother pulling over people who break 90 because its too much paperwork

 

[Deaths Advocate]

It's an easy choice here in Venice... No roads, no cars!

 

[hobbsyoyo]

There may be some practical issues there but in theory its the way to go.

Yup.

Another great example where Paulian values fail in the face of the real world.

 

[Borachio]

It's an easy choice here in Venice... No roads, no cars!

Isn't there a speed limit for motorized gondolas?

 

[Deaths Advocate]

Isn't there a speed limit for motorized gondolas?

Well all the gondolas are man powered! There are limits which routes you can take depending on what you're sailing.

 

[Borachio]

But I saw James Bond in a motorized one in some documentary programme. About some... stuff.

 

[Deaths Advocate]

Yeah, that bond movie has a lot to answer for!

 

[Borachio]

You mean.. it's not true?!

Frankly, I'm aghast.

 

[Deaths Advocate]

For one he should have been wearing wellies.. We're mostly underwater of late!

 

[galdre]

I've seen driving ability and style vary greatly in the different places I've lived in. The drivers here (Seattle area) are horrible; I think they are all on drugs or something. The drivers in New England were complete jerks; tailgaiting at 80mph is not my idea of fun! Those in the UK seemed the best overall, they went fast but seemed to share the roads with others, of course those narrow roads took some getting used to (not to mention driving on the wrong side of the car . . . )

As for speed limits I think they are a good idea over all since they reduce usage of gas and increase safety. Most people are not good enough drivers to be allowed to go too fast (increase the training to get a license and enforce laws against distracted driving and I'd be ok with increasing the speed limit)