SPORE SimEarth game

[Phlegmak]

You evolve new body parts, you evolve more itelligance, you evolve from a cell, creature, tribe, civilization to a galactic empire.

0d1n3oo3Broad is correct. There is no evolution in this game.

 

[salty mud]

0d1n3oo3Broad is correct. There is no evolution in this game.

What? That is what the whole game is about!

 

[a space oddity]

It seems they succeeded in making it evolution/creationist neutral...

 

[thenooblet22]

I don't want do debate, but how come you ask me, in what sect i am?!

Why do you take every question as a damn insult? Your sensitivity really pisses me off because I asked merely just to ask. How dare I ask? How dare I wonder?

Despite the fact that this questions is purely unpolitely, this question should be asked from me to you. I am catholic, i don't believe in creationism or ID or in any of the other corresponding fantasy-constructions, i see the facts and know evolution happens and has happened all the time and at least, as it counts for us catholics, the pope said evolution doesn't go against christian believe.

The pope might have said it doesn't go against the belief, but in my Catholic schools we were taught everything against evolution (even though I myself am not religious). It is quite new to me that every Christian, at least the majority, believes in evolution. I thought the polls were quite the opposite.

Creationism and consorts is antisience, it's purly religious, not christian, but creationistic religious. I mean, come on, creationist propagate that dinosaurs were on the ark!
Btw, i asked you why you asked him this question, i haven't accused you on anything. Please read my reply again.

I heard your reply and I'm going to have to say the same thing for the third time. So here it is, to nail it home for ya. I asked CivGeneral, since I know he is religious, if he would buy the game if he didn't believe in evolution, which I put in paranthesese if he did believe in evolution, to correct me. I don't know why you flame bait me with these pointless responses. I said nothing wrong.

And no, ID is purely Creationism, well, in fact ID=Creationism. And in Spore you are the intelligent being and you create creatures from the cell to a space-farring civ. If Spore would be purely Evolution, you have to wait and watch how cells are forming, how fish are forming out of the cells and so on and so forth. You wouldn't have any controll of anything, well peraps until the tribe-stage at least.

Uh, no. Each generation of beings in this game evolves new body parts or gains intelligence. That's how it works. What do you call going from cell to animal to civilization? It's evolution. You can spin it off anyway you like, it still is what it is.

Btw, Will Wright self said that Spore is pure ID.

Give me a link. I'll be damned if I believe anything from your mouth anymore.

That's my comment, i won't hijack this thread, i just wanted to tell my opnion on this.
For me this debate is at least in this thread over and i won't reply on this in this thread. If you want to discuss further, open a thread in the propper section

No, if your going to attack my comments, I'll do the same likewise. If you want it to stop, never quote me again.

 

[Phlegmak]

What? That is what the whole game is about!

You could say it's about directed evolution, but directed evolution isn't real evolution, since nothing is directing real evolution. Spore is better described as intelligent design.

I found an article discussing this subject. Maybe the article writer is more thorough and eloquent than I.

http://saintgasoline.com/2007/06/01/an-intelligent-design-simulation/

William Dembski, a famous proponant of Intelligent Design, also notices that Spore is about ID, not evolution.
http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/3/2006/03/06/intelligent_design_the_game
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/sort-of-off-topicspore-and-id-continued/

 

[a space oddity]

You could say it's about directed evolution, but directed evolution isn't real evolution, since nothing is directing real evolution. Spore is better described as intelligent design.

But a faulty design will fail in Spore, just like it will in evolution. So yes, it's design, but is it intelligent...?

 

[Phlegmak]

But a faulty design will fail in Spore, just like it will in evolution. So yes, it's design, but is it intelligent...?

I sincerely doubt a faulty design will fail in Spore. I watched the videos of creatures that looked doomed, yet they thrived. The three legged creature in Will Wright's first demo. You can't move fast with three legs. Once the three legged creatures eat all the slow prey, they now have to contend with the fast prey. I suspect what happens is their prey animals in the game don't evolve at all. They just remain slow.

It remains to be seen just how easily a poorly designed creature can survive, but I feel strongly that most will do just fine.

 

[Osymandias]

Why do you take every question as a damn insult? Your sensitivity really pisses me off because I asked merely just to ask. How dare I ask? How dare I wonder?

Yeah, my sensitivity
You asked me in which sect i am, because i don't believe in ID. It seems that you assume that every christian believes in ID in the sense it is taught by the creationists on american schools, as "science" and "based on facts".

The pope might have said it doesn't go against the belief, but in my Catholic schools we were taught everything against evolution (even though I myself am not religious). It is quite new to me that every Christian, at least the majority, believes in evolution. I thought the polls were quite the opposite.

Then I'm sorry for the USA. In Europe most people don't even know what ID is and when they do, then they wonder why the bible is used as a science book and how those people are reading out of the bible that dinosaurs survived the flood in the ark. Even on bavarian catholic Schools, which are very conservative, ID is not teached, not in the reliogious subject and especially not in science-subjects like biology. Sadly this is the case in the only superpower on the globe.

I heard your reply and I'm going to have to say the same thing for the third time. So here it is, to nail it home for ya. I asked CivGeneral, since I know he is religious, if he would buy the game if he didn't believe in evolution, which I put in paranthesese if he did believe in evolution, to correct me. I don't know why you flame bait me with these pointless responses. I said nothing wrong.

I don't flame bait anything. At first i just asked why you ask him this question. I didn't know that he said earlier anywhere that he's religious. Btw: You haven't really asked him if he believes in evolution, but if he buys the game, because of the assumption that he don't believe in evolution because he's christian.
At second i just wanted to show my opinion on this subject.

Uh, no. Each generation of beings in this game evolves new body parts or gains intelligence. That's how it works. What do you call going from cell to animal to civilization? It's evolution. You can spin it off anyway you like, it still is what it is.

Nope. Not the beings evolve new bodyparts, you, the intelligent designer, decides what parts you put on our creature.

Give me a link. I'll be damned if I believe anything from your mouth anymore.

DM: In Wikipedia, Spore is described as a "Teleological Evolution" game. Do you think the game will bring natural selection to the masses?

WW: You can look at it in a number of different ways. What's ironic, really, is it's intelligent design. As a player, you go through an arc of being this lowly little cell, being attacked by pond scum, to eventually becoming a god. At the godlike level, you can almost do the whole creationist thing if you want. "I will create a planet; I will create species; I will put them on the planet." But you're a God without a whole lot of foresight. You put all this stuff on a planet, and it might go kerflooey. You might make a really badly balanced ecosystem. You're not necessarily an omnipotent god. That's even more fun. You have these godlike powers, yet the repercussions of them become totally unpredictable to you.

Link: http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=5781.msg186183#msg186183

No, if your going to attack my comments, I'll do the same likewise. If you want it to stop, never quote me again.

I don't attack your comments per se, i'm discussing (with you) on the subject. At least i thought that.

Reply in red

 

[Elta]

While I haven't read the entire thread, I have watched the video and it looks fantastic, infact I am saving up for a new rig I want by new years just so I can run it to it's full extent

 

[a space oddity]

I sincerely doubt a faulty design will fail in Spore. I watched the videos of creatures that looked doomed, yet they thrived. The three legged creature in Will Wright's first demo. You can't move fast with three legs. Once the three legged creatures eat all the slow prey, they now have to contend with the fast prey. I suspect what happens is their prey animals in the game don't evolve at all. They just remain slow.

It remains to be seen just how easily a poorly designed creature can survive, but I feel strongly that most will do just fine.

In a sense you're right because it is you, the player, that drives the creature. We humans evolved to make do with a sub-optimal physical design.
Still, I will be disappointed if it will be easy to make a creature survive without a mouth.

 

[thenooblet22]

Yeah, my sensitivity
You asked me in which sect i am, because i don't believe in ID. It seems that you assume that every christian believes in ID in the sense it is taught by the creationists on american schools, as "science" and "based on facts".

Let's investigate this. Did I really ask for your sect personally? I think I actually led a sentence starting with this: "I don't know what sect you are..." You assume I assume anything, when I was really describing my experience. Maybe you should stop being so defensive and realize I have done none of what you're desribing.

Then I'm sorry for the USA. In Europe most people don't even know what ID is and when they do, then they wonder why the bible is used as a science book and how those people are reading out of the bible that dinosaurs survived the flood in the ark. Even on bavarian catholic Schools, which are very conservative, ID is not teached, not in the reliogious subject and especially not in science-subjects like biology. Sadly this is the case in the only superpower on the globe.

I'm sorry that you're stuck to generalize everything. Following your logic, I guess, since Germany was once a facist state, everyone there are hitler-lovers and hate jews. Again, my experience, my story. May I introduce you to the other millions that live in the United States?

I don't flame bait anything. At first i just asked why you ask him this question. I didn't know that he said earlier anywhere that he's religious. Btw: You haven't really asked him if he believes in evolution, but if he buys the game, because of the assumption that he don't believe in evolution because he's christian.
At second i just wanted to show my opinion on this subject.

If you're weren't flame baiting, then you're are just an idiot. And once again, you come back to this. I have explained this countless times so let me draw a freaking picture for you. "Just curious. Will you actually play this game even though you don't believe in evolution? -here, I ask whether he will buy the game if he doesn't believe in evolution- (I'm not exactly sure if you do, but I know you are Christian)" -here, I say I'm uncertain, that I only know he is religious, and infer him to correct me- So, you see, I was not out of bounds as you keep proposing. You can stop nick-picking what I said, since I just did it for you.

Nope. Not the beings evolve new bodyparts, you, the intelligent designer, decides what parts you put on our creature.

Yeah, sure. I guess the Civilization series is intelligent design too, since you know, we are using our mouses to make cities and war armies. Come on, Spore is regulated by a simplified game version of evolution where after consuming and surviving, you repoduce and collect points to either evolve new body parts or gain more intelligence. Arguing the player does this as an intelligent designer is a weak counter as most games use 'intelligent players' to play the game...

Will Wright interview in Discover magazine a year ago
DM: In Wikipedia, Spore is described as a "Teleological Evolution" game. Do you think the game will bring natural selection to the masses?

WW: You can look at it in a number of different ways. What's ironic, really, is it's intelligent design. As a player, you go through an arc of being this lowly little cell, being attacked by pond scum, to eventually becoming a god. At the godlike level, you can almost do the whole creationist thing if you want. "I will create a planet; I will create species; I will put them on the planet." But you're a God without a whole lot of foresight. You put all this stuff on a planet, and it might go kerflooey. You might make a really badly balanced ecosystem. You're not necessarily an omnipotent god. That's even more fun. You have these godlike powers, yet the repercussions of them become totally unpredictable to you.

As I said, you can spin it anyway you like. However, in this clipping you gave me, it seems he is talking about the galactic gameplay of meddling with planets and creatures. The series of transforming from cell to creature to tribe to civilization is very much a dumbed-down version of evolution. Again, EA will market this game anyway they can to gain more audience. However, it is what it is.

I don't attack your comments per se, i'm discussing (with you) on the subject. At least i thought that.

The way you reacted and responded to my question to CivGeneral was an attack. Assuming that I assumed anything is a kind of thing that ticks me off and I will defend what I've said. I will discuss about evolution vs intelligent design, but if you think you can put words in my mouth or accuse my of thinking anything, then you're dead wrong.

 

[a space oddity]

OK guys, why don't you take your quabble elsewhere, while we watch the new video!

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/146

Including an explanation by Will Wright at TED in march this year.

 

[Phlegmak]

Still, I will be disappointed if it will be easy to make a creature survive without a mouth.

Hey, you know what? There are indeed creatures that survive without mouths, and I'm not talking about amoebas. Tapeworms! No mouth, no digestive system, no brain, pretty much nothing. They're just reproductive organs, mostly. They absorb their nutrients via osmosis.

I think all of the Spore videos contain creatures with mouths though. Basically, all of the creatures are simply Earth animal life but with a variety of different shapes. (They all have bones, a spine, hands, legs, feet, eyes, mouth, ears, nose, a head, a torso, a brain.)

 

[Nerdking]

They absorb their nutrients via osmosis.

Nerd Alert!

Osmosis is diffusion of water through a semi-permeable membrane. Unless their vital nutrient is water, they get nothing from osmosis

Nerd Alert Over!

 

[a space oddity]

Hey, you know what? There are indeed creatures that survive without mouths, and I'm not talking about amoebas. Tapeworms! No mouth, no digestive system, no brain, pretty much nothing. They're just reproductive organs, mostly. They absorb their nutrients via osmosis.

I think all of the Spore videos contain creatures with mouths though. Basically, all of the creatures are simply Earth animal life but with a variety of different shapes. (They all have bones, a spine, hands, legs, feet, eyes, mouth, ears, nose, a head, a torso, a brain.)

So I should have said: Still, I will be disappointed if it will be easy to make a creature survive without a mouth in Spore. Sigh.

Did you at least watch the video? It was posted on the TED website only today, so this is HOT NEWS...!

 

[Osymandias]

Nice video!
But on the top left it says that it was recorded in march '07, so not really hot news, but nonetheless a great video
The lavaplanet was great. And the Monolith is something i will use very very often.

@thenooblet22
I don't reply, because i have everything said i wanted to say and i would just repeat me. If you want a reply, read my post you quoted.
As said, i don't want do hijack this thread, so i will end this discussion here and now. If you want to discuss further, open a new thread or pm me, but you won't hear anything new there also.
OK, just one thing: Civilization is a godgame, not ID. You don't create new creatures ingame, just overlasting more than 6000 years as the leader of a civilization.

 

[Phlegmak]

Nerd Alert!

Osmosis is diffusion of water through a semi-permeable membrane. Unless their vital nutrient is water, they get nothing from osmosis

Nerd Alert Over!

This exact same conversation came up between me and a teacher about 20 years ago. I said the same thing that you just said. The teacher in question corrected me and showed me why she was right. I don't remember the exact reasoning. If osmosis is the wrong word, then what is the right word for how tapeworms get their nutrients to the inner part of their bodies?

By the way, there's nothing nerdy about the definition of a word.

 

[Nerdking]

This exact same conversation came up between me and a teacher about 20 years ago. I said the same thing that you just said. The teacher in question corrected me and showed me why she was right. I don't remember the exact reasoning. If osmosis is the wrong word, then what is the right word for how tapeworms get their nutrients to the inner part of their bodies?

By the way, there's nothing nerdy about the definition of a word.

This is an inside joke that only I get

Spoiler my random story :

The other day my brother was playing piano to entertain some guests, and he played all of the songs he knew.
One guest recommended that he just put his face on the book and let himself learn via osmosis.
My brother and I correct people all the time for using osmosis incorrectly, and I couldn't pass up this chance, so I proudly stood up and stated, "Osmosis is diffusion of water through a semi-permeable membrane!"
The man whom I corrected then looked me straight in the face and blandly stated, "Who said, 'Chris stand up and say something nerdy?'"
I then began to cry

 

[Truronian]

This exact same conversation came up between me and a teacher about 20 years ago. I said the same thing that you just said. The teacher in question corrected me and showed me why she was right. I don't remember the exact reasoning. If osmosis is the wrong word, then what is the right word for how tapeworms get their nutrients to the inner part of their bodies?

By the way, there's nothing nerdy about the definition of a word.

Perhaps the nutrients are in solution?

 

[Abaddon]

the word you are looking for is diffusion.

BUT what the tapeworms actually use is active transport, id presume.