State of Emergency Declared In Ferguson: It's Back...

[Formaldehyde]

I'm just coming back from a very long trips in the US. I've visited 16 states (+DC) in 15 days. It was really great.

There is still something weird when it goes about violence in the society in the US compared to France. Generally speaking, I would say all Americans, no matter their background, are a lot friendlier and social than we are in France. You guys are really nice dudes, especially in the South.

In France, we basically all hate each others, we constantly insult each others. We are indeed rude, that's not a myth, but it's not meant specifically towards foreigners, it's just our way of life. And it only went worse in the recent years. We have huge problems with our minorities, with our colonial inheritance, with out religious conflicts, with unemploment and the fact the country seems totally stuck. The social athmosphere is just unbearable, but despite that, for a reason I cannot explain, this doesn't result in so much killings.

In the US, it seems to be nearly the opposite. When meeting in the street, people are usually very polite to one another, but there are often very brutal and violent realities behind that. Police enforcement is particularly brutal in the US, the murder rate is much higher than in France. The disparity between wealth and poverty is particularly striking, and I would even say violent in its own way. But people remain polite and social no matter what.

It's really different. And quite weird.

Do you have a strong French accent? If so, I would have expected you to receive a not-so-nice reception from many Southerners. Many of them are quite bigoted towards the French. But their general politeness might be enough to counter it unless you gave them some reason to not be so nice.

Americans don't typically murder people they don't know extremely well. It is actually quite rare for them to do so. Their victims are other family members, business associates, or neighbors which they had some sort of altercation with for the most part.

The police are essentially the same way. They typically treat those who are respected and reasonably affluent with great deference. But they are the exact opposite with those they think are lower class "perps". This is particularly true with those who are black or Hispanic.

Much of it has to do with that wealth inequity. Many Southerners in particular are extremely fearful that blacks, and to a lesser extent Hispanics and other minorities, will eventually want to get even by taking their wealth and even murdering their families. Those who own guns frequently have lots of them for that reason.

My next-door neighbors who recently died are a classic example. They hid guns all over their house and even practiced what they would do in the case of an armed invader on a regular basis. They had a proximity alarm that would trigger a recording of a barking dog if anybody came close to their house at night.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Why do people assume that having no weapon means a person isn't dangerous?

Probably because they, in general, are much less dangerous than those with weapons. And since we have so many weapons available in America, no weapon seems totally non threatening.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Do you have a strong French accent? If so, I would have expected you to receive a not-so-nice reception from many Southerners. Many of them are quite bigoted towards the French. But their general politeness might be enough to counter it unless you gave them some reason to not be so nice.

I would expect the opposite. A clear French accent would endear you to many, including southerners.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I hope that you got to see the American west on your trip. You should start a thread and tell us about it. I'd be curious about what you saw and thought was important.

The trip was from Boston, MA to Houston, TX. I've chosen that route because I wanted to experience many different local cultures. And I wasn't disappointed! Of course the North is strongly different from the South, but even within the North and within the South it's very different from a place to another.

Couldn't reach California unfortunately, that will be for a next trip.

People are polite in the US because if you are rude to someone they may very well kill you for it.

I don't know if you meant it seriously or not but as a matter of fact, I did feel the gun culture, especially in the South. And maybe that can expain things.

When I was in Lafayette, LA, we ended taking the first motel we've found which actually happened to be in the worst part of the city. And yeah, there were poor people around who were hanging around, obviously bored. They weren't particularly violent, and as a matter of fact, they were even nice in their way (to my French standards), but they were a bit weird. Anyway, what made the athmosphere even weirder was that it was only 8:30 pm and the restaurants were already closed with drive-in service only. Same at the motel, at 8pm the girl was already on night service not moving out of her box. And they all felt scared behind their glass windows, so we also started to get scared as well. But there was no objective reason for this, except the fact we had no idea what could happen. As a matter of fact, that was the only somehow "insecure" experience, and we've been in tons of various places, including many other poor neighbourhoods.

Anyway, the trip helped me as well to get another perspective on why Americans are so much in love with the idea about living in remote suburbs and doing everything without even going out of their car. Of course that's because living in a house is more comfortable and the general American idea about "living in a spacious country" made people accept to scale everything so that over-sized pickups could fit. But I was wondering if the other unsaid reason for this was simply that such environment made people feel more secure.

 

[Farm Boy]

But I was wondering if the other unsaid reason for this was simply that such environment made people feel more secure.

<shrugs> Large crowds make me uneasy. It's not that I think anyone is going to mug me, I'm just not used to the hubbub. Urbanfolk seem rude compared to what I'm used to. They're probably just more used to shunting others out as background noise. I go for a walk around here I wind up stopped and talking most of the time if the weather is nice and people are out, catch up on how their kids are doing, etc. Same when I go to buy gas for the car. Or stop by the bank.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Do you have a strong French accent? If so, I would have expected you to receive a not-so-nice reception from many Southerners. Many of them are quite bigoted towards the French. But their general politeness might be enough to counter it unless you gave them some reason to not be so nice.

I would expect the opposite. A clear French accent would endear you to many, including southerners.

Generally people easily figure out I was a foreigner when I spoke, but they didn't immediately guess I was French. In the big cities from the North (Boston, NYC, Philly, Washington), people couldn't care less probably because they are just used to hear foreign accents all the time. In the South, when people understood we were French reactions were always positive. Even in places like Montgomery, Alabama or Ashland, Virginia. Accents are much harder to understand for me in the South than in the North, but when people figured out I didn't grab what they told me, they were usually talking slower to make it easier to understand.

The only place were it wasn't this way was Houston, Texas. People in Texas have really a strange accent. But at the opposite of Southerners, those I met didn't really make any effort when they realized I had difficulties to understand them. Quite on the contrary, they were staring at me as if I was dumb or something. Houston isn't the place I liked the most in the trip. That city is really not for me. But I'm still glad I've been there because I visited the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center!

Anyway this is probably getting a bit off-topic. Sorry to have deviated the thread.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The trip was from Boston, MA to Houston, TX. I've chosen that route because I wanted to experience many different local cultures. And I wasn't disappointed! Of course the North is strongly different from the South, but even within the North and within the South it's very different from a place to another.

Couldn't reach California unfortunately, that will be for a next trip.

We are a big country and until the 1960s rural America was pretty isolated. Cities were the melting pots and regional cultures quite distinctive. In spite of the huge changes in mobility, the growth of suburban culture and the homogenization of America, many very distinctive cultures thrive. Boston to Houston would give you a very nice variety of people and places if you got off the freeways. Did you drive the whole way?

I don't know if you meant it seriously or not but as a matter of fact, I did feel the gun culture, especially in the South. And maybe that can expain things.

When I was in Lafayette, LA, we ended taking the first motel we've found which actually happened to be in the worst part of the city. And yeah, there were poor people around who were hanging around, obviously bored. They weren't particularly violent, and as a matter of fact, they were even nice in their way (to my French standards), but they were a bit weird. Anyway, what made the athmosphere even weirder was that it was only 8:30 pm and the restaurants were already closed with drive-in service only. Same at the motel, at 8pm the girl was already on night service not moving out of her box. And they all felt scared behind their glass windows, so we also started to get scared as well. But there was no objective reason for this, except the fact we had no idea what could happen. As a matter of fact, that was the only somehow "insecure" experience, and we've been in tons of various places, including many other poor neighbourhoods.

Anyway, the trip helped me as well to get another perspective on why Americans are so much in love with the idea about living in remote suburbs and doing everything without even going out of their car. Of course that's because living in a house is more comfortable and the general American idea about "living in a spacious country" made people accept to scale everything so that over-sized pickups could fit. But I was wondering if the other unsaid reason for this was simply that such environment made people feel more secure.

In some places, nighttime can be scary. There are places in Albuquerque that I stay away from after dark. The locals know and close up to be safe. They can be like a turtle and only show what they have to.

You noticed our pickup trucks. You never see such things in Europe. Guns and pick up trucks are two of the most important parts of our culture.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Start a "Marla Singer visits the US" thread.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The only place were it wasn't this way was Houston, Texas. People in Texas have really a strange accent. But at the opposite of Southerners, those I met didn't really make any effort when they realized I had difficulties to understand them. Quite on the contrary, they were staring at me as if I was dumb or something. Houston isn't the place I liked the most in the trip. That city is really not for me. But I'm still glad I've been there because I visited the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center!

This is the reaction I thought would be more common. They were essentially saying "You aren't from around here. Are you?"

Of course, the opposite would be true in New Orleans and the surrounding area. There is a very heavy French influence.

 

[Marla_Singer]

You noticed our pickup trucks. You never see such things in Europe. Guns and pick up trucks are two of the most important parts of our culture.

I've actually booked a SUV as a rental because I knew I would drive a lot and I wanted it to be comfortable. The dude told me he had no SUV in stock so he did me an upgrade... And that upgrade turned out to be a mega-super-huge pick-up with 4 doors. A Chevrolet Silverado. So yeah... I've noticed the pick-up culture.

I actually took the vehicle in Downtown Manhattan, right at the bottom of the Freedom Tower. And I freaked out a bit in the streets of Manhattan. That wasn't the best place to drive a pick-up for the very first time. Anyway, the car was very comfortable... The seat felt like a sofa. The only bad thing was that this thing was burning gas quicker than a torch. I've probably sent more exhausts to the athmosphere in 15 days than I've done in the last 3 years! Sorry Mother Earth.

We are a big country and until the 1960s rural America was pretty isolated. Cities were the melting pots and regional cultures quite distinctive. In spite of the huge changes in mobility, the growth of suburban culture and the homogenization of America, many very distinctive cultures thrive. Boston to Houston would give you a very nice variety of people and places if you got off the freeways. Did you drive the whole way?

We've driven 2,000 miles in 15 days so there wasn't so much road per day. On average I was driving from 2 to 4 hours a day so that's okay.

Distances don't feel that big in the Eastern US because there are cities and good opportunities to stop everywhere. That would probably be different in the Western states.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Start a "Marla Singer visits the US" thread.

Yeah good idea I will do that.

Except it's a bit late here and I'm working on tomorrow morning. So I'll try to get 3 hours of sleep now.

 

[classical_hero]

Probably because they, in general, are much less dangerous than those with weapons. And since we have so many weapons available in America, no weapon seems totally non threatening.

But it doesn't make them harmless either.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't know if you meant it seriously or not but as a matter of fact, I did feel the gun culture, especially in the South. And maybe that can explain things.

I said it jokingly, but it is true, and it isn't really about guns. People are just much more inclined to be polite when there is doubt in their minds about outcomes. Whenever I am having trouble with a petty bureaucrat or some other snotty person I always find a way to casually mention that I served time for a string of violent felonies. It's like a magic password.

In my experience, Europeans are too cultured, so they have a harder time conceptualizing risks.

 

[Farm Boy]

Ok, Heinleinsup2nothin. Probably true.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Ok, Heinleinsup2nothin. Probably true.

LOL...I can think of at least three possible references behind that one, perhaps because I am a Heinlein fan. Clarify?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Here's a classic.

Cops try to quash video evidence of their misconduct on grounds that having thought they had (illegally) destroyed all the video surveillance equipment in the shop they had "reasonable expectation of privacy," while they looted the place, shared brutal and racially charged jokes about customers and staff, and basically had a good old time "protecting and serving."

 

[MilesGregarius]

As I understand it they're a militia, you people usually harp on about the amendment referring to militias only having guns. But confronted with a militia you still complain, guess your kind is full of crap as usual.

The operative phrase in the 2nd Amendment is "well REGULATED."

 

[Farm Boy]

LOL...I can think of at least three possible references behind that one, perhaps because I am a Heinlein fan. Clarify?

Troopers, Moon Australia, and the Martians? In that order, no?

 

[Berzerker]

According to the Guardian, the ratio is 6.27 to 1.72 per million so far this year. So blacks and Latinos are nearly 4 times as likely to be killed.

Now what are the homicide rates committed by blacks and latinos? Combined, young black and latino men are committing a disproportionally high number of homicides, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to learn they're over-represented in the death by cop category. True?

What is even more alarming, though, is that 76 unarmed blacks and Latinos were killed by police while 61 whites were. So they were nearly 5 times more likely to be killed by police

And they were more than ~5 times likely to be killing other people. According to the Vox article I linked black men are 8x more likely to be murdered than white men. Latinos were in the 4-5x range. This is driven primarily by the drug trade and where and how we wage our war on drugs, but the numbers dont lie.

I misread it. But it is still disingenuous to insinuate it must be true because some whites and blacks saw it the same way when others clearly did not.

It is true, people of various ethnicities provided testimony supporting Wilson's version of events and the ballistic evidence also supported him. Who were his accusers "from the stand"?

It doesn't take "evidence" to supposedly "clear" someone. Just insufficient proof to proceed with a trial. Claiming that he was "cleared" and there was "nothing to accuse him" are also disingenuous.

Nonsense, it was the evidence that cleared Wilson and its the evidence that clears many people charged with crimes. He was cleared because eyewitness testimony combined with ballistic evidence was greater than evidence of an execution.

Justice Department: No Darren Wilson charges

Like I said, no evidence Wilson murdered Brown.

Back to that nonsensical cherry picking of the statistics used by so many authoritarian conservatives to foment irrational fear of blacks?

All I did was ask how many homicides were committed by whites and blacks. Seems like a relevant stat, dont you think? Now go back and look at the stats you did post. Which one shows a black person is 8x more likely to be murdered than a white person? Cherry picking

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Troopers, Moon Australia, and the Martians? In that order, no?

Moon Australia? I'll have to look for that one. I was thinking that Lazarus Long was never shy about using his reputation to advantage, whether it was realistically interpreted or not...but yeah, trooppers definitely and the martians in a somewhat general way.