State of Emergency Declared In Ferguson: It's Back...

[Bugfatty300]

As I understand it they're a militia, you people usually harp on about the amendment referring to militias the people only having guns. But confronted with a militia you still complain, guess your kind is full of crap as usual.

Fixed.

 

[Formaldehyde]

As I understand it they're a militia, you people usually harp on about the amendment referring to militias only having guns. But confronted with a militia you still complain, guess your kind is full of crap as usual.

Do you really think the founding fathers were referring to survivalist gun nuts in the 21st century who call themselves a "militia", instead of the only armed forces the US had at the time?

 

[Farm Boy]

Do you think it is a coincidence that so many blacks and other minorities are executed by cops while very few whites are?

Very few? Are you showing your class bias, by chance?

Given the abysmal state of reporting it's hard to be super amazing with any of this, but it seems to be generally accepted that police kill about twice as many white people in this country every year as they do black people. Now: there are about five white people for every black person, so a 2:1 ratio clearly shows something is out of whack. Should we, maybe, try roughly controlling for economics(Hiya Bernie)?

If black people are ~27% poor and are ~12% of the population that puts what, ~3.25% of America is poor and black? If white people are ~12.7% poor(hello huge economic bias) and ~63% of the population that puts what, ~8% of America is poor and white? That would mean, roughly controlling for the fact that it isn't mostly the "right kind" of well-heeled arsewad whites that are getting blown away, but the trash, white casualties at the hands of the police should be ~2.5 times higher than black. The difference between that ~2.0x and ~2.5x seems to be the police bullet bodycount of the institutional bias. A bigass problem, for sure. But "very few whites" are executed? Hardly. You'd have to be a clueless rich hee-haw to honestly believe this, one would think.

 

[Berzerker]

This is the worst indictment of the FPD to date. They had body cameras for the entire force, donated no less, before the incident last year, but had not put them into service. How they can justify having cops on the street without them at this point is truly beyond guessing unless they just do not want to produce evidence.

I understand these cops were either undercover or plainclothes

The eyewitness accounts were clearly in both directions instead of "alike". To claim otherwise is disingenuous.

Here is what he said:

Mixed-race and black witnesses alike saw it and testified. Wilson was cleared.

And thats true... Please stop accusing people of deception based on your strawmen.

And Wilson was "cleared" because there was insufficient evidence to find him culpable.

There was sufficient evidence to clear him, nothing to accuse him.

5 black crime myths: Which ones did you believe?

How many homicides were committed by blacks and whites?

http://www.vox.com/2014/5/1/5670296...mes-more-likely-to-be-murdered-if-youre-black

A black man is 8x more likely to be murdered than a white man, but you think its just a myth.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Do you really think the founding fathers were referring to survivalist gun nuts in the 21st century who call themselves a "militia", instead of the only armed forces the US had at the time?

I'm with you on this, but I actually do think that some people today think that, and can say it with a straight face.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Very few? Are you showing your class bias, by chance?

According to the Guardian, the ratio is 6.27 to 1.72 per million so far this year. So blacks and Latinos are nearly 4 times as likely to be killed.

The Counted: People killed by police in the US

What is even more alarming, though, is that 76 unarmed blacks and Latinos were killed by police while 61 whites were. So they were nearly 5 times more likely to be killed by police based on the demographics.

Given the abysmal state of reporting it's hard to be super amazing with any of this, but it seems to be generally accepted that police kill about twice as many white people in this country every year as they do black people. Now: there are about five white people for every black person, so a 2:1 ratio clearly shows something is out of whack. Should we, maybe, try roughly controlling for economics(Hiya Bernie)?

From what "abysmal state of reporting" source did you get your statistics which you even failed to provide a URL? "Are you showing your class bias, by chance?"

Here is what he said:

I misread it. But it is still disingenuous to insinuate it must be true because some whites and blacks saw it the same way when others clearly did not.

There was sufficient evidence to clear him, nothing to accuse him.

It doesn't take "evidence" to supposedly "clear" someone. Just insufficient proof to proceed with a trial. Claiming that he was "cleared" and there was "nothing to accuse him" are also disingenuous.

Justice Department: No Darren Wilson charges

"There is no evidence upon which prosecutors can rely to disprove Wilson's stated subjective belief that he feared for his safety," the Justice Department report said.

How many homicides were committed by blacks and whites?

Back to that nonsensical cherry picking of the statistics used by so many authoritarian conservatives to foment irrational fear of blacks?

 

[Farm Boy]

From what "abysmal state of reporting" source did you get your statistics which you even failed to provide a URL? Are you showing your class bias, by chance?

Use this article's stab at it if you want. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/police-shootings-ferguson-race-data

I was digging at the CDC data for the augts when I was looking through. The numbers bounce around a lot over 40 years and heaven knows how exactly accurate it is, hence, the abysmal state of reporting and data collection, hence, the admitted approximation of all numbers in the post.

But fine. I'm happy to be showing class bias if you prefer to write it off that way. The police disproportionally kill persons of color in this country. Even moreso, the police disproportionately kill the poor in this country. Some socialists seem to agree with my observation(https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/26/race-a26.html), which shouldn't really be surprising. Discount them too if you want, the statistics available are intentionally horrible, but having the temerity to say "very few" is indicative of a worldview that innately writes off a large subsection of the abused as beneath consideration. A worldview that I, at least, hope we don't find too troublesome to hold in carefully considered contempt.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The topic here isn't poor people. Now is it?

Deflect warranted criticism "if you want", but claiming that I am "discounting" it by merely sticking to the topic is just more sheer nonsense.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of which, CNN is now showing two videos of what is claimed to be Tyrone Harris holding a handgun.

 

[Farm Boy]

No, the broader topic here is institutional racism and more specifically police killings of people of color. To which you claimed that "very few" whites are executed by police. Which would indicate a pretty freaking big blind spot when it comes to the institutional biases in play when it comes to what makes people of color bleed out on our streets at the rates they do. We can't just simply have the cops stop shooting young black men. That is a bloody symptom of greater a greater malaise, we need the cops to stop shooting young poor men. We need need poor men to stop shooting other poor men while we're at it too. In fact, we probably need less people to be poor in order to make morally acceptable progress.

You backing on up on the "very few" yet or are you going to keep trying this little gotcha game of hee-haw? Hell, I'll even apologize if I've managed to parse that "very few" incorrectly and what you in fact meant was the opposite of "very few."

 

[Formaldehyde]

4:1 is still a hugely embarrassing ratio, which you tried to "dismiss" as being 2:1.

So you made your point long ago that it actually isn't "very few" which I did not contest, yet you are still fixated on it while even coming up with a nonsensical theory why this might be true. Bravo.

 

[Farm Boy]

You're comparing a personal risk ratio to a raw number ratio before correcting for population difference. I guess that would probably explain why this isn't making sense for you.

Just out of curiosity: what is my nonsensical theory? That we kill some people because they're black instead of white? Or that we kill lots of people because they're poor? Or something else you'll have to explain to me that I said?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You backing on up on the "very few" yet or are you going to keep trying this little gotcha game of hee-haw?

At this point if Formy stays true to form he will claim that the "very few" was sarcasm...but if you are looking for any acknowledgement that he was off base in the first place, give it up and move on.

Really glad to see you back, by the way.

 

[Formaldehyde]

You're comparing a personal risk ratio to a raw number ratio before correcting for population difference.

As though that apparent gibberish is supposed to make any sense. The actual ratio based on the Guardian data taken from documented incidents reported in the media is quite clear. While you can argue that it might be incomplete, it is apparently the best data that is now available.

 

[Formaldehyde]

At this point if Formy stays true to form he will claim that the "very few" was sarcasm...but if you are looking for any acknowledgement that he was off base in the first place, give it up and move on.

Kudos. I would be too embarrassed to bring up that I missed obvious sarcasm. But you are apparently not.

Really glad to see you back, by the way.

Ask him what his avatar is supposed to mean. I still can't figure it out.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Kudos. I would be too embarrassed to bring up that I missed obvious sarcasm. But you are apparently not.

Revisionism looks good on you!

 

[Marla_Singer]

I'm just coming back from a very long trips in the US. I've visited 16 states (+DC) in 15 days. It was really great.

There is still something weird when it goes about violence in the society in the US compared to France. Generally speaking, I would say all Americans, no matter their background, are a lot friendlier and social than we are in France. You guys are really nice dudes, especially in the South.

In France, we basically all hate each others, we constantly insult each others. We are indeed rude, that's not a myth, but it's not meant specifically towards foreigners, it's just our way of life. And it only went worse in the recent years. We have huge problems with our minorities, with our colonial inheritance, with out religious conflicts, with unemploment and the fact the country seems totally stuck. The social athmosphere is just unbearable, but despite that, for a reason I cannot explain, this doesn't result in so much killings.

In the US, it seems to be nearly the opposite. When meeting in the street, people are usually very polite to one another, but there are often very brutal and violent realities behind that. Police enforcement is particularly brutal in the US, the murder rate is much higher than in France. The disparity between wealth and poverty is particularly striking, and I would even say violent in its own way. But people remain polite and social no matter what.

It's really different. And quite weird.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm just coming back from a very long trips in the US. I've visited 16 states (+DC) in 15 days. It was really great.

There is still something weird when it goes about violence in the society in the US compared to France. Generally speaking, I would say all Americans, no matter their background, are a lot friendlier and social than we are in France. You guys are really nice dudes, especially in the South.

In France, we basically all hate each others, we constantly insult each others. We are indeed rude, that's not a myth, but it's not meant specifically towards foreigners, it's just our way of life. And it only went worse in the recent years. We have huge problems with our minorities, with our colonial inheritance, with out religious conflicts, with unemploment and the fact the country seems totally stuck. The social athmosphere is just unbearable, but despite that, for a reason I cannot explain, this doesn't result in so much killings.

In the US, it seems to be nearly the opposite. When meeting in the street, people are usually very polite to one another, but there are often very brutal and violent realities behind that. Police enforcement is particularly brutal in the US, the murder rate is much higher than in France. The disparity between wealth and poverty is particularly striking, and I would even say violent in its own way. But people remain polite and social no matter what.

It's really different. And quite weird.

People are polite in the US because if you are rude to someone they may very well kill you for it.

 

[Farm Boy]

People are polite in the US because if you are rude to someone they may very well kill you for it.

And you're far more likely to murder somebody you care for than somebody you care nothing about.

Edit: actually, that's only true when a woman is involved as either perpetrator or victim. My error.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm just coming back from a very long trips in the US. I've visited 16 states (+DC) in 15 days. It was really great.

There is still something weird when it goes about violence in the society in the US compared to France. Generally speaking, I would say all Americans, no matter their background, are a lot friendlier and social than we are in France. You guys are really nice dudes, especially in the South.

In France, we basically all hate each others, we constantly insult each others. We are indeed rude, that's not a myth, but it's not meant specifically towards foreigners, it's just our way of life. And it only went worse in the recent years. We have huge problems with our minorities, with our colonial inheritance, with out religious conflicts, with unemploment and the fact the country seems totally stuck. The social athmosphere is just unbearable, but despite that, for a reason I cannot explain, this doesn't result in so much killings.

In the US, it seems to be nearly the opposite. When meeting in the street, people are usually very polite to one another, but there are often very brutal and violent realities behind that. Police enforcement is particularly brutal in the US, the murder rate is much higher than in France. The disparity between wealth and poverty is particularly striking, and I would even say violent in its own way. But people remain polite and social no matter what.

It's really different. And quite weird.

I hope that you got to see the American west on your trip. You should start a thread and tell us about it. I'd be curious about what you saw and thought was important.

America has over 300 millions folks and with so many, the number of crazy, bigoted, violent, stupid, poor etc. people is a large number even if a small percent. Having so many crazy, bigoted, violent, stupid, poor people means that our police are kept busy doing whatever they have been trained or told to do.

By in large we are nice people and if you avoid talk about religion, politics, guns and sex you will have great experiences here.

 

[classical_hero]

Why do people assume that having no weapon means a person isn't dangerous?