State of the Union Thread

[mrt144]

his tax deduction for health insurance is kind of dumb. most people who need health insurance dont pay taxes anyway, and most of those who already have health insurance dont pay for it out of pocket.

there were some definite screwy things that he said.

 

[Nylan]

I love the hypocrisy...slam Bush for the budget and then be pleased at the prospect of spending even more money on science funding. You're trying too hard.

 

[sonorakitch]

Bush identified that problem back in the 1970's when running for Congress. Just more moving of the doom and gloom goalposts that has been going on for decades.

Yea, but back then the Conservative movement was lambasting the idea of social security whereas today virtually every official acknowledges the challenging environment SS faces in the next 30 years. Baby boom....

Plus, Obama and Hillary both recognize the problem...its just that neither would actually do anything to fix it.

...fix Social Security's long-term finances, but that cutting benefits or raising the eligibility age would be 'off the table.

I don't want to lay out my preferences beforehand, but what I know is that Social Security is solvable.

Anyways, I found it a bit cowardly that the DEMS wouldn't stand for that one. "Oh God...don't say or do anything about that hot potato..."

~Chris

 

[JollyRoger]

Yea, but back then the Conservative movement was lambasting the idea of social security whereas today virtually every official acknowledges the challenging environment SS faces in the next 30 years. Baby boom....

Plus, Obama and Hillary both recognize the problem...its just that neither would actually do anything to fix it.

Anyways, I found it a bit cowardly that the DEMS wouldn't stand for that one. "Oh God...don't say or do anything about that hot potato..."

~Chris

Actually, the solution (assuming there really is a problem) is to raise the wage cap on which it is taxed. Bush doesn't want to do that as it doesn't give his Wall Street base a bunch of captive money to play with. The leading Dem candidates aren't going to talk about raising the cap because that will be derided as raising taxes.

Perhaps we should have Iraqis pay into the system for the next 100 years we are over there. That should cover the boomers.

 

[sonorakitch]

Actually, the solution (assuming there really is a problem) is to raise the wage cap on which it is taxed. Bush doesn't want to do that as it doesn't give his Wall Street base a bunch of captive money to play with. The leading Dem candidates aren't going to talk about raising the cap because that will be derided as raising taxes.

Perhaps we should have Iraqis pay into the system for the next 100 years we are over there. That should cover the boomers.

I agree that the Dems may have a different solution regarding SS, but Bush didn't really address his proposals for fixing it (although we do know what they are). When the Dems didn't stand to support the idea of fixing social security it seemed pretty spineless. The third rail I guess...

~Chris

 

[LucyDuke]

I watched it. Or, perhaps more accurately, I watched the first twenty minutes and then just had it on. It was less infuriating than the last few times. Poor Pelosi looked high. Can't blame her, though, can you? *yawn* So when do I get my check again?

It's "Daniel," not "Daniels."

And for that matter, it's Johnnie, not Johnny.

 

[Integral]

I love the hypocrisy...slam Bush for the budget and then be pleased at the prospect of spending even more money on science funding. You're trying too hard.

I don't think it's hypocrisy.

After all, science funding is such a pathetically small part of the budget ($6 billion annually from the NSF and about $24 billion otherwise) that doubling the science budget will still be fairly small relative to the overall budget.

And I have no qualms about government-funded research funding, education, and internal improvments. What I really dislike is an expensive, overblown stimulus plan that will be too small relative to consumer spending to be effective and come too late to matter anyway.

Balancing the budget is a great goal. In the absence of that, I'd prefer that we blow our money on productive things, like education and infrastructure.

So I applaud Bush for attempting to make science a priority, while also deploring his wasteful managment of public funds in the past few years. If we're going to have a deficit, let's have one for the right reasons.

 

[JollyRoger]

It's "Daniel," not "Daniels."

Spend enough time with Jack and you will swear there are two of him.

And for that matter, it's Johnnie, not Johnny.

Not since we cut off earmarks advocated by those disgraced lobbyists Pat Sajak and Vanna White.

 

[amadeus]

Actually, the solution (assuming there really is a problem) is to raise the wage cap on which it is taxed.

Fixing =/= delaying the inevitable.

 

[The Yankee]

I missed it - is the state of the union still strong? How about confident?

No, go back to sleep.

 

[Irish Caesar]

I missed it - is the state of the union still strong? How about confident?

Well, the president said so... but the guys running for president (namely Romney and Huckabee) disagreed with that diagnosis...

And for that matter, it's Johnnie, not Johnny.

I don't bother with it when they leave the "e" out of whiskey.

 

[JollyRoger]

Fixing =/= delaying the inevitable.

There is a demographic crunch coming up that may be of some concern and need some proactive measures, but that does not inevitably mean the system will fail anytime soon. If you delay failure beyond the demographically worst point , perhaps the system stays viable for far much longer than the dooming and glooming hate America first crowd is advocating. If you believed Bush in the 1970's as you settled in to Rip van Winkle until today, you would be suprised upon awaking that the system is still solvent and that Bush is now talking about 2041 or somesuch year. It's kind of like the hucksters setting a date for the end of the world. They keep moving the goalposts into future only to do a revision to a similarly distant date into the future once their predictions have proven false. More tease and denial going on than at a Baptist Youth campout.

 

[mrt144]

There is a demographic crunch coming up that may be of some concern and need some proactive measures, but that does not inevitably mean the system will fail anytime soon. If you delay failure beyond the demographically worst point , perhaps the system stays viable for far much longer than the dooming and glooming hate America first crowd is advocating. If you believed Bush in the 1970's as you settled in to Rip van Winkle until today, you would be suprised upon awaking that the system is still solvent and that Bush is now talking about 2041 or somesuch year. It's kind of like the hucksters setting a date for the end of the world. They keep moving the goalposts into future only to do a revision to a similarly distant date into the future once their predictions have proven false. More tease and denial going on than at a Baptist Youth campout.

you really know how to sock the youth pastors.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

I'm always stunned to hear when people say things like "The Democrats (usually Obama) haven't given their plans for X." Here's something to chew on: just because you haven't heard a candidate say something on a particular topic, doesn't mean they haven't said anything on that topic.

Just go to the website, people. Barack Obama's website (the admittedly difficult-to-remember www.barackobama.com) clearly states that he wants to raise the cap on the FICA tax to help pay for Social Security. Edwards is the same. Not only that, Obama's and Edwards's websites are really easy to navigate.

(In contrast to Hillary Clinton's, apparently, where two minutes of searching didn't give me what I was looking for. So forget her!)

Cleo

 

[IglooDame]

I'm always stunned to hear when people say things like "The Democrats (usually Obama) haven't given their plans for X." Here's something to chew on: just because you haven't heard a candidate say something on a particular topic, doesn't mean they haven't said anything on that topic.

Just go to the website, people. Barack Obama's website (the admittedly difficult-to-remember www.barackobama.com) clearly states that he wants to raise the cap on the FICA tax to help pay for Social Security. Edwards is the same. Not only that, Obama's and Edwards's websites are really easy to navigate.

(In contrast to Hillary Clinton's, apparently, where two minutes of searching didn't give me what I was looking for. So forget her!)

Cleo

And in a slightly interesting (to me, anyway) sidenote, www.barackhusseinobama.com automatically redirects to the aforementioned www.barackobama.com.

 

[JollyRoger]

you really know how to sock the youth pastors.

It reads that way now that you mention it. The original premise I was going for was a female engaging in the t & d fetish, so the resulting youth pastor slam was inadvertant for once.

 

[amadeus]

There is a demographic crunch coming up that may be of some concern and need some proactive measures, but that does not inevitably mean the system will fail anytime soon. If you delay failure beyond the demographically worst point , perhaps the system stays viable for far much longer than the dooming and glooming hate America first crowd is advocating. If you believed Bush in the 1970's as you settled in to Rip van Winkle until today, you would be suprised upon awaking that the system is still solvent and that Bush is now talking about 2041 or somesuch year. It's kind of like the hucksters setting a date for the end of the world. They keep moving the goalposts into future only to do a revision to a similarly distant date into the future once their predictions have proven false. More tease and denial going on than at a Baptist Youth campout.

So it's not a problem because fiscal insolvency might not happen for another 30 years? Uh, great...

 

[JollyRoger]

So it's not a problem because fiscal insolvency might not happen for another 30 years? Uh, great...

I'm not convinced it wil happen. 30 years ago Bush was saying fiscal insolvency was going to happen in 30 years. Now, we are waiting on his next 30 year prediction to come true.