Steven Assanti is going to Die

[CavLancer]

Well said Narz.

Listen Paul, go get some money, get together a bunch of caring friends and pay some folks to get this guy and put him somewhere away from his enablers and force him to take off a few pounds.

He will love you for it.

Problem solved, and I'd say if you don't do it you are condemning this guy to death.

 

[bhavv]

Right, of course. Just choose to stop, why on earth hasn't anyone else figured that out? Just be happy. Just don't be anxious. Just don't seek that next hit even though your brain chemistry has altered to such an extent that you go through extreme physical pain if you don't get it.

Just a choice, of course!

Maybe learn how to read what I actually wrote.

I have never claimed that mental illness doesn't exist, I myself have plenty.

However, and the vast majority of people with mental illnesses have never developed an addiction.

Hence, I can most definitely conclude that there is no correlation between mental health and addiction, which is exactly what I wrote before.

I can also scientifically claim, with evidence from what I learned during my degree and repeated for decades text book science, that addictive personalities have a much higher prevalence among risk taking and / or care free personalities. These are not classified as mental disorders, but merely behavioural traits that differentiate people.

Maybe go and read a neurology text book or something before trying to look smart about such things that stem only from a nonsense liberal bias.

P.S. A care free personality would also be a likely cause of this guys repugnant videos, not mental disorder. Believe it or not, most humans are actually pretty terrible creatures, most of whom only tend to act accordingly due to peer pressure. There is absolutely zero logic or evidence to claim that this abominable waste of space actually has any mental condition affecting his behaviour.

 

[Flying Pig]

There's no sharp line between mental illness and psychological oddity, though. Not too long ago, homosexuality was considered a mental illness, but depression was called 'melancholy' and thought of as a character trait.

From my own experience (much less glamorously, of knowing far too many people with self-destructive addictions), addiction is often a means of getting away from something that you can't deal with. We spend a lot of time telling these people to act like men, not to talk about their feelings, but to front up and act like ordinary people. And they do. Then they start drinking to help with that. Then they kill themselves.

 

[bhavv]

Posted accidentally.

 

[Hygro]

However, and the vast majority of people with mental illnesses have never developed an addiction.

The vast majority of rectangles are not squares but the squares are all still rectangles, brah.

Addiction is currently psychiatrically a mental illness.

 

[bhavv]

The vast majority of rectangles are not squares but the squares are all still rectangles, brah.

Addiction is currently psychiatrically a mental illness.

'Addiction is a mental illness'.

However, it is not 'predisposed by mental illness'. It can form with or without any other disorders, and is an illness due to alteration of brain function based on the addictive substance or in this case, activity.

The original claim was that this guy 'is addicted to food and acting the way he is in his videos due to another mental illness', which is a fallacy.

 

[bhavv]

Recently there was a media report from my home town where a guy killed his wife and two daughters, and then committed suicide.

There was no evidence or indication found as to why he did it, and he had no actual mental health diagnostics from his doctors.

However to pinpoint the blame on something, the police and media stated 'maybe he had depression'.

This is akin to looking at a fat person who also makes abusive videos towards nurses and taxpayers and saying 'maybe he has mental health issues'.

Its cases and often repeated incidences like these why mental health issues have such a negative stigma attached to them, to the point of convincing people that someone with mental illness must obviously be a murderer or an abusive **** with zero people skills.

Or in other words, to state that this guy has a mental illness that leads to his actions in his videos (as per the original claim, nothing to do with his eating problem), is a clear insult to every other person with actual mental illnesses.

 

[Synobun]

Maybe learn how to read what I actually wrote.

I have never claimed that mental illness doesn't exist, I myself have plenty.

However, and the vast majority of people with mental illnesses have never developed an addiction.

Hence, I can most definitely conclude that there is no correlation between mental health and addiction, which is exactly what I wrote before.

I can also scientifically claim, with evidence from what I learned during my degree and repeated for decades text book science, that addictive personalities have a much higher prevalence among risk taking and / or care free personalities. These are not classified as mental disorders, but merely behavioural traits that differentiate people.

Maybe go and read a neurology text book or something before trying to look smart about such things that stem only from a nonsense liberal bias.

P.S. A care free personality would also be a likely cause of this guys repugnant videos, not mental disorder. Believe it or not, most humans are actually pretty terrible creatures, most of whom only tend to act accordingly due to peer pressure. There is absolutely zero logic or evidence to claim that this abominable waste of space actually has any mental condition affecting his behaviour.

Most people with depression don't go on to have schizophrenia. What kind of a counterargument is that? If you have one mental illness you need to go on to develop other mental illnesses? That makes zero sense. Depression is a mental illness. Schizophrenia is a mental illness. Addiction is a mental illness. What does diagnosis of the former have to do with the latter? How exactly can one find a correlation between mental illness and... mental illness again?

Just a tip, but shouting "nonsense liberal bias" any time someone disagrees with you is going to get old real quick for those who actually try and speak to you. This has been in multiple threads now, it's not witty, it's not relevant, and it doesn't discredit anything the person is saying to you.

Also, aren't you in your twenties? How can you have decades of experience? Were you a mental disorder specialist in the womb?

It's worth pointing out here that, in those same textbooks you're referring to, personality traits can be indicators of mental illness.

 

[Flying Pig]

Recently there was a media report from my home town where a guy killed his wife and two daughters, and then committed suicide.

There was no evidence or indication found as to why he did it, and he had no actual mental health diagnostics from his doctors.

However to pinpoint the blame on something, the police and media stated 'maybe he had depression'.

This is akin to looking at a fat person who also makes abusive videos towards nurses and taxpayers and saying 'maybe he has mental health issues'.

Its cases and often repeated incidences like these why mental health issues have such a negative stigma attached to them, to the point of convincing people that someone with mental illness must obviously be a murderer or an abusive **** with zero people skills.

Or in other words, to state that this guy has a mental illness that leads to his actions in his videos (as per the original claim, nothing to do with his eating problem), is a clear insult to every other person with actual mental illnesses.

The sentiment is valid - people with mental health issues no doubt get extremely fed up with the running implication that any mental health issue is enough to turn you into a psychopath, or else simply makes you insufferable. I think the rest of us need to be tactful in avoiding saying that, while also avoiding saying that all mental health issues can be solved by willpower and the right attitude - which is even more unhelpful.

 

[Hygro]

Recently there was a media report from my home town where a guy killed his wife and two daughters, and then committed suicide.

There was no evidence or indication found as to why he did it, and he had no actual mental health diagnostics from his doctors.

However to pinpoint the blame on something, the police and media stated 'maybe he had depression'.

This is akin to looking at a fat person who also makes abusive videos towards nurses and taxpayers and saying 'maybe he has mental health issues'.

Its cases and often repeated incidences like these why mental health issues have such a negative stigma attached to them, to the point of convincing people that someone with mental illness must obviously be a murderer or an abusive **** with zero people skills.

Or in other words, to state that this guy has a mental illness that leads to his actions in his videos (as per the original claim, nothing to do with his eating problem), is a clear insult to every other person with actual mental illnesses.

I agree, but your issue is then political and social and not medical. The guy's a jerk. Does his addiction further faciliate his jerkness? Probably. Is his addiction a mental illness? By definition, yes. Can we help reduce his jerkness treating his addiction? Maybe. Probably easier treating his addiction by treating his jerkness—except we don't know how to do that.

Your solution is to cast him out. Others are saying hold on, only someone crazy would act so far against their own interest, let's treat him! (Against his will, effectively).

The cons are a loss of freedom. The pros are a gain in utility. Pretty terrible tradeoff.

 

[BvBPL]

'Addiction is a mental illness'.



However, it is not 'predisposed by mental illness'. It can form with or without any other disorders, and is an illness due to alteration of brain function based on the addictive substance or in this case, activity.



The original claim was that this guy 'is addicted to food and acting the way he is in his videos due to another mental illness', which is a fallacy.

Parties with mental illness are predisposed to addiction and addicts are predisposed to developing mental illness. Meaning that these groups are more likely to suffer the other malady then the general population and that those that do suffer the secondary malady are likely to do so because of their primary malady. While some addicts develop mental illness as a direct result of their usage, such as the brain disorders that can occur after many years of alcohol abuse, some addicts develop mental illness that is not related to the physical use of their addictive substance. It is not uncommon for recovering addicts to suffer severe and debilitating bouts of depression during and after recovery. Indeed, this sort of detox depression is a major reason for relapse.

This does not mean that all addicts are mentally ill and vice versa. Merely that the two circles in a Venn diagram would overlap to a significant degree.

Nor is it to say that every addiction is equally likely to cause a mental illness. People who are addicted to running (yes, Virgina, there are people literally addicted to running) are probably less likely to exhibit a secondary mental illness than an alcoholic.

I appreciate your stance that addiction is a matter if personal responsibility. In many ways, I agree. However, addiction and mental illness do frequently go hand in hand, a correlation that I think deserves attention rather than dismissal.

Post script: as to addiction itself, the current medical consensus is that it is a disorder, rather than an illness. Many people, including health professionals, do ascribe to the disease model of addiction, but that model is generally not thought of as being accepted by the medical community as a whole.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

Listen Paul, go get some money, get together a bunch of caring friends and pay some folks to get this guy and put him somewhere away from his enablers and force him to take off a few pounds.

We have done that. That is why we give our money in a dozen ways to hospitals. That is why we have society, to help those who need help.

I am surprised they are turning from their mission. We gave them certain benefits and in exchange we expected them to help the ill. We did not fund their buildings, their educations and all the rest of it for them to choose to help only the polite and attractive.

 

[CavLancer]

Maybe something to do with hospital rules? If you are rude you're out? If you're an alcoholic in rehab and you order a booze delivery from the nearby liqueur store, bye bye? I'm guessing the pizza broke a rule or the rudeness broke a rule.

 

[Kyriakos]

Bhavv, i really doubt that Assanti can be termed as a 'carefree personality'. No one would be that if they weighted 350 kilograms... I mean if one is at such a vast weight they are pretty much confined to a room, reliant on others for virtually everything.

He has 'enablers', that is obvious. Going from the pics his mother likely is not really pushing him (at least to the degree she should, else he will die anyway) to lose weight as he should.

That Assanti now is a jerk in those videos at least, is obvious. I am not claiming i would like to have him as a friend, but it is another thing to have a hospital kick him out (maybe that too was warranted, depending on what was going on, but it is another issue; doctors and nurses shouldn't treat one only if he/she is polite/pleasant...).

 

[Rashiminos]

We have done that. That is why we give our money in a dozen ways to hospitals. That is why we have society, to help those who need help.

I am surprised they are turning from their mission. We gave them certain benefits and in exchange we expected them to help the ill. We did not fund their buildings, their educations and all the rest of it for them to choose to help only the polite and attractive.

In this case I think the best way to help... is not to.

People jump at the opportunity of reducing another person's worth which is a dangerous precedent to set. Conditional empathy and rights are not indicators of a moral or otherwise positive society.

I'm not sure unconditional empathy would have avoided the indulgences given to this particular creature (although I suspect the word you're looking for is pity).

 

[Synobun]

I'm not sure unconditional empathy would have avoided the indulgences given to this particular creature.

Specifically unconditional empathy and nothing else? No, it would not have avoided it in all likelihood. But there are systems that can be put in place that, even with temporary loss of free will (from a certain point of view), can be followed through from a place of compassion rather than disgust. If this man doesn't want to be helped by even the nicest, most empathetic person on the planet, it's unlikely someone tempted to spit where he walks and sneer at him while reluctantly offering assistance will fare any better. We're social creatures, how we behave and feel even in a distant, disconnected way matters. Mental illness can drastically alter how we perceive and respond to people, but it's rare that someone acting negatively towards you will be what helps you pull yourself out of the dark hole you've found yourself in.

Somehow I doubt that this man is a person who encounters basic empathy regularly. Enablers aren't empathetic, the common public clearly isn't, and healthcare professionals are more often than not rule-followers than healers (in all instances, not specifically dealing with obese people) because of the way our healthcare is set up.

It's not expensive to abstain from hating people, considering them less, and not referring to them as a "creature". Some might claim that such a change is free.

 

[Flying Pig]

We have done that. That is why we give our money in a dozen ways to hospitals. That is why we have society, to help those who need help.

I am surprised they are turning from their mission. We gave them certain benefits and in exchange we expected them to help the ill. We did not fund their buildings, their educations and all the rest of it for them to choose to help only the polite and attractive.

Equally, their staff don't turn up to work to be abused all day - they have the right to a decent working environment like anybody else, especially as any bad morale among them is going to lead directly to mistakes and damaged or dead patients.

 

[Synobun]

Equally, their staff don't turn up to work to be abused all day - they have the right to a decent working environment like anybody else, especially as any bad morale among them is going to lead directly to mistakes and damaged or dead patients.

Flying Pig is right. Standard hospitals are not trained or equipped to deal with situations like this. You don't go to a bakery when you want a steak. They're both in the business of food but they do different things, and you should go where you can get the service that is required.

A hospital bed for a weight loss regimen (intended for a weight loss surgery) is not the right place and the hospital isn't given the authority to enforce their diet anyways. A skinny person on a strict diet assigned by a physician can also be kicked out for consistently breaking it.

 

[Rashiminos]

Specifically unconditional empathy and nothing else? No, it would not have avoided it in all likelihood. But there are systems that can be put in place that, even with temporary loss of free will (from a certain point of view), can be followed through from a place of compassion rather than disgust. If this man doesn't want to be helped by even the nicest, most empathetic person on the planet, it's unlikely someone tempted to spit where he walks and sneer at him while reluctantly offering assistance will fare any better.

It's a very linear view of situation to assume that 'niceness' will always trump other tones of communication (although a mismatch in tone and action is even more counterproductive).

We're social creatures, how we behave and feel even in a distant, disconnected way matters.

Yes we are. Negative feedback can be used to curtail such aberrant behavior.

Mental illness can drastically alter how we perceive and respond to people, but it's rare that someone acting negatively towards you will be what helps you pull yourself out of the dark hole you've found yourself in.

In the hypothetical where Assanti's mental illness is the primary cause of his condition, what allowed that illness to go inadequately challenged? (At this point Assanti is more likely to drag people into 'dark' hole with him. I'm sure that adjective is purely coincidental on your part, right?)

Somehow I doubt that this man is a person who encounters basic empathy regularly. Enablers aren't empathetic,

Their willingness to give him a continuing supply of helpings is not rooted in a lack of empathy. They do care about him on some level, even if ignorance confounds their intentions. A non-empathetic, self-serving person would rarely have such intentions.

It's not expensive to abstain from hating people, considering them less, and not referring to them as a "creature". Some might claim that such a change is free.

Maybe someone should find out what it takes to support 4/5 bodies-in-one. Until that figure comes in, we can at least assume that the lower life expectancy is a cost. Additionally, you called all of us creatures in this post, which is relatively amusing.

Spoiler :

Edit:

Equally, their staff don't turn up to work to be abused all day - they have the right to a decent working environment like anybody else, especially as any bad morale among them is going to lead directly to mistakes and damaged or dead patients.

There seems to be an indication of expense here, Synsensa.

Flying Pig is right. Standard hospitals are not trained or equipped to deal with situations like this. You don't go to a bakery when you want a steak. They're both in the business of food but they do different things, and you should go where you can get the service that is required.

A hospital bed for a weight loss regimen (intended for a weight loss surgery) is not the right place and the hospital isn't given the authority to enforce their diet anyways. A skinny person on a strict diet assigned by a physician can also be kicked out for consistently breaking it.

Or perhaps an inefficient use of hospital facilities?

If this man doesn't want to be helped by even the nicest, most empathetic person on the planet

The sort of help he wants involves ordering people to feed him. He may not particularly want those other forms of help, but I surmise he's willing to take advantage of attitudes that lead to latter to meet the prerogative of the former.

 

[Kyriakos]

I am just not seeing the economic burden angle here, given surely very few people weight 350 kilograms, while 'more usual' obesity would not even be half that admittedly massive weight... (bypassing for the moment the counterarguments about people who live in similar 'excess', ie having to pay more taxes due to what they buy, cigarettes, food etc).

Imagine if you weighted 350 kilograms. I doubt you would be able to stay calm. As noted i doubt Assanti will manage to lose enough weight so as to have the operation, but to argue he is a matter of economics (ie to generalise this for obese people in general) is gravely mistaken.