Streetcar Mania!

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I have not.

What does BART mean?

 

[Tahuti]

I have not.

What does BART mean?

Bay Area Rapid Transit

It is a light-rail network.

 

[warpus]

Bay Area Rapid Transit. I was going to use it to get to the airport in SF, but my friends told me that it's crap, that I should stay away, and that they would drive me themselves.

 

[Tahuti]

I was going to use it to get to the airport in SF, but my friends told me that it's crap, that I should stay away, and that they would drive me themselves.

My NorCal friends who use BART routinely suffer from striking BART personell. Basically, French kind of happenings.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Not BART, BRT. Bus Rapid Transit. My mistake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_rapid_transit

Straphanger looks at its use in Bogata.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Ah. But Rapid Transit sounds like a pathetic and unnecessary compromise to me. All that's limiting the immediate construction of mass transit, from streetcars to high speed rail, is budgetary timidity on the part of established lawmaking cliques. I mean, there's a vested, monied interest which is very much against mass transit and against spending for the public good, and there's a reason that mass transit has never been a serious legislative concern in this country for the last century: the people responsible for making those decisions at a political level are in their pockets. That's what prevents us: lack of resolve, not lack of means.

 

[classical_hero]

Good to see the streetcar making a comeback! My city doesn't have them yet, but.. we're still sort of living in the 80s.

Stamford Bridge must suck to live in , then.

Perth was the first city in Australia to have trams and yet for some reason we decided to get rid of them, which was crazy. In fact the CBD is ideally suited to it and if we are going to go down that path, then we should have an exclusion zone for cars, except for couriers and the like. We have a Central Are Transit bus system, but while it is good, a tram system would be much better. In fact there are some smaller areas of Perth that could do with a tram system should one get set up. To the north of the city in Joondalup there is a minor business district up there, which is closer to me. There is the port entrance of Perth on the shore of the ocean and the River at Freemantle that could use a system and if they are viable then we could even go further south to Rockingham and Mandurah, which are basically small town connected to Perth. All these Systems can be connected to the main rail system or have stops close by for easy use, but this could mean it is easier for people to get around town and various parts of the area. This could eventually be extended to some of the larger towns in the Rest of WA.

 

[downtown]

Light-rail is great. America needs more of it. Streetcars generally completely suck, unless they have their own dedicated lane. Otherwise, I suspect they are worse than no public transit at all.

 

[downtown]

Yeah, its an elevated rapid transit that follows the street-line, so it kind of mimics streetcars, especially with the stations in the loop.

Well, part of it is. There's also a good part of the L that's underground, like a conventional subway. Those tracks are faster than the elevated sections, which are pretty old.

The city nearly tore down the entire elevated section a few decades ago, but decided against it.

It isn't as nice as the DC metro (and less likely to make a good Fallout location) but it is better than nothing.

The DC Metro freaking sucks.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Light-rail is great. America needs more of it. Streetcars generally completely suck, unless they have their own dedicated lane. Otherwise, I suspect they are worse than no public transit at all.

That is the one great challenge of streetcars today: city roads have been built for the past 50 years without them in mind.

To be honest, though, on streets that have more than two lanes in any given direction (not counting parallel parking) a properly-executed tram route replacing one lane in each direction wouldn't have to cause hardly any changes in traffic flow. We're going to have to move away from automobiles in the coming years anyway, so a concerted effort by any city to really minimize cars in its downtown areas could effectively deal with the arising issues without making too many peoples' lives into nightmares.

The DC Metro freaking sucks.

Only because it hasn't been properly maintained since construction, so now we have significant delays to make up for that while they do said neglected repairs.

 

[Puck Nutty]

Toronto's streetcar history in pictures.

First, the old Red Rocket:

Spoiler :

Then the second generation Red Rocket:

Then their replacements:

Then we went acordian style for a while:

And now the new uber-streetcars rolling out this year:

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

The articulated ones are great. Some of the newer lines in Budapest (see my first picture on page 1) use them; they're compact and very roomy on the inside, and you can stand in the articulations for additional passenger space, whereas they really don't take up much more space in traffic than a streetcar would anyway, considering what they offer in return (and considering the berth you would give a streetcar).

 

[Ajidica]

The DC Metro freaking sucks.

It is better than no metro.
I would dread to imagine how I would have gotten around DC without the Metro. From my admittedly very brief and touristy experience with it, it got me from point A to point B relatively quickly relatively cheaply with well placed stops in the city center.

Considering the nightmare that is trying to figure out bus schedules in Minneapolis/St. Paul or the dearth of locations on the MARTA in Atlanta, the DC Metro seemed to work quite well.

 

[downtown]

To be honest, though, on streets that have more than two lanes in any given direction (not counting parallel parking) a properly-executed tram route replacing one lane in each direction wouldn't have to cause hardly any changes in traffic flow.

Why would removing an entire lane of traffic not impact traffic flows?

Only because it hasn't been properly maintained since construction, so now we have significant delays to make up for that while they do said neglected repairs.

And bc it is expensive and doesn't go to lots of important places.

 

[MilesGregarius]

They have those trolleybuses in Russia, too. Very popular in St. Petersburg, for example. I still prefer the railed trolleys, though.

San Fran still has 14 trolleybus lines, including some of the most heavily used, like the 14 Mission. Some of these use the big accordion buses.

Bay Area Rapid Transit

It is a light-rail network.

BART is actually heavy-rail.

Bay Area Rapid Transit. I was going to use it to get to the airport in SF, but my friends told me that it's crap, that I should stay away, and that they would drive me themselves.

I have never had any issue with using BART to the airport. The train lets you off right in the terminal, unlike some cities I've visited. In fact, on many an occasion when flying between Asia and the East Coast, I've hopped BART into the Mission, grabbed myself a couple of burritos for the road, and scampered back to the airport with plenty of time to catch my connecting flight.

Now using BART in the East Bay...

 

[luiz]

Houston, the world capital of suburbanization gone mad and automobile use in genera, actually has a light rail system downtown which is pretty useful!

 

[gay_Aleks]

A kind of stupid question, but are the streetcars different beasts than trolleys and trams?

 

[Phrossack]

Spoiler :

Do you love streetcars? I love streetcars and light rail.

For European posters, these are American terms to describe what you call trams. Streetcars run only at street-level (or underground or elevated for portions), while light rail might run at street-level for a time but also at grade like normal rail, albeit with different style and size tracks than "heavy," or normal rail.

Washington D.C. is just one of many American cities with programs to reintroduce streetcars to urban life in the coming years. Washington has an ambitious 37-mile project to link its various neighborhoods and already-existent metrorail system (which is one of the best in the nation). Tuscon, Seattle, Norfolk, Salt Lake City, and Charlotte have also recently added light rail and streetcar lines, and existing systems in SF, Philadelphia, and Boston continue to expand and rehabilitate abandoned lines. Atlanta, Cincinnati, Detroit, Kansas City, and Dallas also have future streetcar plans.

I, for one, am extremely excited about this. It is high time for the return of mass transit as we attempt to combat the effects of global warming, the coming decline of petroleum reserves, and the unsustainable automobile-centered life we in the United States enjoy more than any other nation.

Why streetcars? There are a number of reasons. First, they are cheaper than either elevated or underground subway lines. Second, securing rights-of-way on public roads is much easier than securing it over private property (even if property were public, it would still be a pain to clear those rights of way either through existing buildings or property otherwise already in-use). Third, it provides easy pedestrian or bicycle access directly to building fronts without the wait of escalators, elevators, or climbing stairs. Fourth, and this one is rather subjective, it makes driving more of a pain, which can lessen traffic congestion in downtown areas through simply deterrence. Fifth, streetcars are fully compatible with pedestrian-only areas, something which many European cities have either put into effect or have future deadlines for doing so in their downtown areas in the coming decades, and is something which I hope American cities will follow in suit. And sixth, streetcars are powered by electric overhead wires, which reduces immediate-area pollution that other rapid transit systems like buses would still cause (net air pollution still being a function of the source of that electricity in the first place, in which case I would like to point out that these streetcars should in the future run on solar freaking roadways).

Light rail, whether on street-level or simply functioning as a rapid transit system, is another welcome development, considering the sad state of mass transit on this continent. In the long-term, the predominantly suburban life is not sustainable; the trend is already underway to create community centers* (as in, centers of communities, not the meeting halls we call "community centers") and urban environments within these suburban sprawls, but the problem of commuting into city centers or to other suburban workplaces remains. Light rail which extends outward from city centers to these suburbs, or between suburban centers themselves, will become increasingly necessary in coming years.

A lot of the old streetcars are still in use on the old routes that survived the automobile-industry-driven buyout of streetcar companies during the 1940s-60s, like Philadelphia and San Francisco. They're classy, but small. Here's what they look like:

The new ones are more like modern European trams: smaller, articulated, air-conditioned, and low to the ground for easy access:

Light rail comes in a variety of forms. I've ridden one of the older lines, the Baltimore Light Rail, many times, and it's little-different from a commuter rail line. But newer ones are basically longer, articulated trams not too different in design from the aforementioned new streetcars. Here's what the old ones look like:

I've been convinced of the idea of streetcar lines for a while, but I only observed/experienced them in practice this past summer in Budapest. I took some pictures (which I ought to put in the Everyday Photos thread too!), here's what they look like:

Spoiler :

They're amazing. They're cheap (I had a monthly pass, so I only paid the initial price when I arrived and just flashed it whenever challenged), extremely easy to find and use, and the network crisscrossing the city made life without a car extremely easy and convenient. They were heavily-used, which some people complain about but I've always seen as a good sign: it would be worse if they were always empty! They're quiet and far less of a disturbance than buses or cars, and they don't take up a ton of room on the street, either.




So, let's talk about streetcars! Americans, what do you think of this development? Are you as excited as I am? Do you have serious reservations about them or about light rail? What are your experiences with them? Do you have questions? Europeans, describe your laughter at the infancy of American mass transit. Is it cackling, rolling, or hyperventilating? Tell us about your trams in your towns or countries!




*While it's true that the main beneficiaries of the present trends are of course the affluent, and that particularly in gentrification situations in urban areas the losers are the poor, I think it goes without saying that I also see solutions to those issues...but politics isn't really a topic for this thread.

Good OP, and good thread!

I don't know much about streetcars, but aside from the eyesores of their power cables, they seem like an excellent idea. Efficient public transportation using pre-existing roads, and to think that we had them over a century ago and yet abandoned them for cars... A brief look at my posting history will say what I think of those machines.

Really, even if they had zero emissions, suffered no fatal crashes, were biodegradable, and ran on renewable energy, cars would still be harmful by their very nature. The manufacture of cars, the resource extraction required for them, the burden of car insurance on drivers, the division and destruction of natural habitats with roads, the encouragement of suburban living, the huge death toll from car accidents (probably will reduce with self-driving cars, but that's a long ways off and debatable), and that's not to mention the catastrophic environmental and political costs of the oil use. Cars suck for a LOT of reasons.

Improving cars will just ensure that they, and suburbia, will stick around longer, and suburbia is also harmful and unsustainable. Suburbia and cars encourage the use of the other in a vicious circle, like cigarettes that make you addicted to fried food that makes you addicted to those cigarettes. And like fried food and cigarettes, they may be enjoyable, but they're harmful. Public transportation is more like fruits and vegetables, with streetcars being like strawberries: that rare thing that is both tasty and nutritious.

 

[really]

Here in my home town of Galway, Ireland we used to have horse drawn trams:

Spoiler :

http://www.kennys.ie/news/galway-and-salthill-trams/
The best horses were commandeered by the British Army to serve during the First World War and the line closed in 1919. They were replaced by buses.

Dublin brought back two tram lines ten years ago and they have been very successful - one has already been extended and the other one is being extended including a new bridge over the river Liffey.

One of the lines uses an old suburban rail alignment (below), the other is mostly on street or beside it.

Dublin also has a few limited suburban light / heavy rail commuter lines - the biggest proposal is to connect them with a tunnel through the centre removing a bottleneck and separating intercity trains from commuter ones. Unfortunately when the bubble burst these plans were delayed, along with a light rail metro to the airport.

A big advantage of the trams are that they are operated by private companies without subsidy and without the labour-relations difficulties experienced in the state railway company.

 

[Farm Boy]

An American take on the OP? They seem great. If they're a significant improvement in efficiency over buses I hope additional development succeeds and necessary maintenance is performed. I like riding the L in Chicago(BART was ok too the once I rode it). But that's a pretty distant concern with zero impacts on my day to day life. If we can both actively provide carrots for such development I hope the metropolitans limit their sticks to people who actually have transportation options.