Bastian-Bux
King
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2006
- Messages
- 795
Concerning teleporting animals: it's not working in my version (8559). I checked the xml cfg... there it's set correctly. So, where could this setting be "overruled"?
Subdued Animals in C2C discussions
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
It kicks in at sedentary lifestyle.
Bastian-Bux
King
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2006
- Messages
- 795
? Was that changed since v35? Cause there it was always active.
Yes, quite recently changed.
The game lost something vital when it was made to auto teleport, so now we have a compromise.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
One major reason for the change was the complaints about how fast and far you can explore. This puts a natural slow down on that exploration.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Doesn't this just make your Hunter have his own animal army following him then?
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Have you tried to use that "animal army"? It don't do much of anything but cause you to lose all your hunting effort Hydro.
JosEPh
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Not recently, but back in the old days I remember using them defensively. Having a Hunter stand in one spot with a bunch of animals and having the animals come to them.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Which means they are not exploring. Goal achieved.
. It costs a lot more to keep those animals out in the wild. They cost less in your lands and less still it you use them. The AI has been programmed with this version of hunting in mind.
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
Which means they are not exploring. Goal achieved.
So what does the AI do with the animals? Does it wander around with them in tow, head back home with each individually, or just not stray more than one move from its borders?
On balance I agree with this change (and it'll be a while before it affects me since all my early games are in Ancient now). It should be optional though.
One other thing to consider is that, under Start As Minors, other hunters will be able to 'poach' your animals even if your hunter is stacked with them, since hunters attack animals - including subdued animals - first, and don't take much damage from them generally, so are immune to reprisals (except against their train of animals of course
). I'm pretty sure the AI won't think of that however...So what does the AI do with the animals? Does it wander around with them in tow, head back home with each individually, or just not stray more than one move from its borders?
On balance I agree with this change (and it'll be a while before it affects me since all my early games are in Ancient now). It should be optional though.
One other thing to consider is that, under Start As Minors, other hunters will be able to 'poach' your animals even if your hunter is stacked with them, since hunters attack animals - including subdued animals - first, and don't take much damage from them generally, so are immune to reprisals (except against their train of animals of course
I've seen that the AI usually explores with one scout and hunter stacked, when 2-3 animals are captured they properly escort them back to their culture either with the scout or the hunter but usually both. They are not afraid to split the hunter/scout team but they always return to each other and keep close. If an animal is captured by another unit and there's a hunter close by the hunter will move to the animal and escort it home.
All in all the AI handles hunting pretty well now.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
Hmm... actually I started a new game today and just when I read that I saw Hitler walking around with a Master Tracker and 20+ Animals over 40 turns away from his boarder 
@Faustmouse:
This should be a rare sight. At least in my experience. The most animals I've seen stacked with an AI hunter is about 6-8.
Edit: perhaps most of them were captured in a short span of time when the hunter was already far from the border; or perhaps a barbarian humanoid is confusing the AI.
This should be a rare sight. At least in my experience. The most animals I've seen stacked with an AI hunter is about 6-8.
Edit: perhaps most of them were captured in a short span of time when the hunter was already far from the border; or perhaps a barbarian humanoid is confusing the AI.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Nice. That was the goal of some changes recently. Alberts was working to improve some of the side effects of those adjustments... I wonder if he finished on them. Either way, it's very nice to see that SOMETHING I did with the AI is working exactly as intended.
I have just played to beginning of ancient era.
That is much better solution in prehistoric not to teleport subdued animals. It forced me to more frequently return to cultural borders with caught wildlife.
Another good thing, animals cannot explore. They need to follow already scouted path. Sometimes I risked and let them return alone, some of them were then defeated by wild animals, but sometimes they even won! Interesting is that such victories get counted towards great general and not great hunter. It seems for me this is a very special case. How to treat this - I'm not sure.
And my chasers/trackers are hunting alone, though sometimes I add to the "party" a bird, like an eagle, or other that has 3 move points (owl, pigeon). Chasers/trackers are very vulnerable against neanderthal warriors or other barbarians. Then, before moving chaser/tracker to a tile from which he cannot get back (like you enter a forest that takes the remaining move points) I can "scout" the terrain with that bird. Having 3 move points it can withdraw.
Is it an exploit? I think somewhat. The bird is supposed to be caught, before technologies (falconry) giving training of birds, this seems to be used against reason. And even then, a person controlling such bird (falcon, eagle) would have these 3 move points? Master tracker has 3 move points but not everywhere.
Just some thoughts about it.
That is much better solution in prehistoric not to teleport subdued animals. It forced me to more frequently return to cultural borders with caught wildlife.
Another good thing, animals cannot explore. They need to follow already scouted path. Sometimes I risked and let them return alone, some of them were then defeated by wild animals, but sometimes they even won! Interesting is that such victories get counted towards great general and not great hunter. It seems for me this is a very special case. How to treat this - I'm not sure.
And my chasers/trackers are hunting alone, though sometimes I add to the "party" a bird, like an eagle, or other that has 3 move points (owl, pigeon). Chasers/trackers are very vulnerable against neanderthal warriors or other barbarians. Then, before moving chaser/tracker to a tile from which he cannot get back (like you enter a forest that takes the remaining move points) I can "scout" the terrain with that bird. Having 3 move points it can withdraw.
Is it an exploit? I think somewhat. The bird is supposed to be caught, before technologies (falconry) giving training of birds, this seems to be used against reason. And even then, a person controlling such bird (falcon, eagle) would have these 3 move points? Master tracker has 3 move points but not everywhere.
Just some thoughts about it.
Great General vs. Great Hunter seems to be determined by the attacking unit, not the defending unit. So if you attack a regular unit with a Hunter, you'll get a point towards Great Hunter for example. Would probably be more logical if determined by the defending unit, but, well, that's how it is
I was wrong, there is no points, what I can see now.
Hunting/exploring further.
Just had a case: caught a pigeon with a stone thrower and decided to move it together with another unit wanderer. This stone thrower meanwhile entered a hill, that gave 2 tiles distance view. There was a tribal village on grassland on nearby tile, but one tile further was a bear. My stone thrower would surely die if I entered the village. So I moved closer a wanderer (and a pigeon). The bear left next turn, but knowing, that Wanderer (scout class ...?) gives better tribal village results, I decided to use it instead of stone thrower, but finally, I moved the pigeon to the village, it gave 65 gold. I could do it, as the grassland tile was not uncovering any new tiles. Curious, what wanderer would get, I reloaded the turn and explored the village with it. Also 65 gold.
So subdued animal can explore tribal villages.
- do they get chances for outcomes the same as scouts?
And a thought: can it be presently easily done, so that subdued animals can only move around as attached to a unit? This would eliminate some (in my view) exploits.
Just had a case: caught a pigeon with a stone thrower and decided to move it together with another unit wanderer. This stone thrower meanwhile entered a hill, that gave 2 tiles distance view. There was a tribal village on grassland on nearby tile, but one tile further was a bear. My stone thrower would surely die if I entered the village. So I moved closer a wanderer (and a pigeon). The bear left next turn, but knowing, that Wanderer (scout class ...?) gives better tribal village results, I decided to use it instead of stone thrower, but finally, I moved the pigeon to the village, it gave 65 gold. I could do it, as the grassland tile was not uncovering any new tiles. Curious, what wanderer would get, I reloaded the turn and explored the village with it. Also 65 gold.
So subdued animal can explore tribal villages.
- do they get chances for outcomes the same as scouts?
And a thought: can it be presently easily done, so that subdued animals can only move around as attached to a unit? This would eliminate some (in my view) exploits.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
They get the same results from goody huts as any other unit.
Not easy to force one unit to stay with others. The code so that the AI would know and use this would not be easy either.
I could make all subdued animals have a combat strength of zero and remove all the combat types. It may be worth a try.
