Subdued Animals in C2C discussions

[JosEPh_II]

@DH,

Does the animal spawn rate vary according to difficulty level? Or by Map size?

Or is it uniform?

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@DH,

Does the animal spawn rate vary according to difficulty level? Or by Map size?

Or is it uniform?

JosEPh

It is supposed to do both, however since it was moved into the dll I don't really know how it works any more. In fact it is supposed to be inversly proportional to map size, ie spawn rate is faster on smaller maps. that ay it ends up looking the same. If I get back to modding it for KROME and Rom:AND2 it will be in python and I will know.

 

[JosEPh_II]

My current game has Tons of animals is why I asked, Huge C2C_Shuffle, Normal gamespeed and Normal difficulty with only 7AI Civs and Barbs.

In fact I send about 6 to 10 animals with every settler to build Herds. flocks, Cages, Enclosures, etc, etc.

I send a ranger into unexplored areas and he can literally only move 1 tile at a time. So I let him stand on a tile for several turns before I can move him to another tile. Each turn the nearest city gets from 3 to 8 animals per turn from him.

When I reveal a new area from a Hill tile the animals can be stacked as deep as 6 per tile. The avg tile contains at least 2 or 3.

I'll post a screenie here shortly.

JosEPh

 

[wolfensoul9]

Joseph, the reason for your masses of animals is simple. You are playing on a huge map with only seven civs. You do realize that eight civs total is the baseline for a standard size map, not a huge one, right? I'd recommend twice the amount of AI for a huge map than what you have.

Seriously, seven AI is not a one size fit all setting.

Anyways, your dearth of civs to take up space is the reason for all your animals, I'm sure, or at the very least, a major part of it.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

My current game has Tons of animals is why I asked, Huge C2C_Shuffle, Normal gamespeed and Normal difficulty with only 7AI Civs and Barbs.

In fact I send about 6 to 10 animals with every settler to build Herds. flocks, Cages, Enclosures, etc, etc.

I send a ranger into unexplored areas and he can literally only move 1 tile at a time. So I let him stand on a tile for several turns before I can move him to another tile. Each turn the nearest city gets from 3 to 8 animals per turn from him.

When I reveal a new area from a Hill tile the animals can be stacked as deep as 6 per tile. The avg tile contains at least 2 or 3.

I'll post a screenie here shortly.

JosEPh

I think I may have recently increased the rate of animal spawns on the SVN. Just change ANIMAL_SPAWN_MODIFIER in A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.XML down a bit. I will be adding a SEA_ANIMAL_SPAWN_MODIFIER soon.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@wolfen,

I'm sure it is to an extent. But the spawn rate was recently moved into the DLL according to DH. And was supposed to scale to Map size and difficulty.

Otherwise the number of AI, It's in My preferred range on AI. I prefer 7 to 12 AI for huge map. On Archipelago maps I'll play Giant with 8-12 AI too. I'll also turn on Barb World which places a barb city for every "player" in the game from time to time. But I don't know if the Barbs subdue animals like they did in the beginning when Subdued animals was 1st added in.

I used to play 20 AI but found that the AI was stifled with any number higher than that. I've used Barb Civ in the past too along with Start as Minors. Not my prefered setup anymore.

One other note about me for your understanding, I've been with the "Mod" since Strategy 1st introduced Prehistoric Era in NWA. Prior to that I started being a regular in Rise of Mankind forum when Zappara introduced RoM0.8 back in 2007 until Zappara left the forums. I was there to bug and argue with Afforess during AND's run. (lots of arguments in that one!). I've lost track of Zappara but I still have contact from time to time with Afforess. StrategyOnly and I met when Zappara 1st added REV into RoM 2.0. He also didn't like REV and his NWA used much of RoM's Techtree and added buildings/units etc. I think I still have that 1st copy of that version of NWA.

I'm a longwinded old geezer who's been around this block a few times. So when I see something that does not jibe with how it (the Mod) has been playing I speak up.

JosEPh

Edit: this screen shot is after the Ranger has been on a tile for several turns now, to illustrate my observations. Again I've enjoyed the extra animals. I just hope the AI is "harvesting" as well as I am. And that's my real concern. The tiles with no animals is the Path my ranger has taken to get where he is now.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

But the spawn rate was recently moved into the DLL according to DH. And was supposed to scale to Map size and difficulty.

Try it was moved way back in v16 or v18

Edit: this screen shot is after the Ranger has been on a tile for several turns now, to illustrate my observations. Again I've enjoyed the extra animals. I just hope the AI is "harvesting" as well as I am. And that's my real concern. The tiles with no animals is the Path my ranger has taken to get where he is now.

It does seem a bit excessive but not to unrealistic for the time period. It looks like that area has not been harvested for along time. I find that mostly the "auto hunt" function works well for land based hunters. Not so well for sea based ones. Yes you get a huge number when you move into new areas but as more and more hunters are out there the numbers of animals are reduced significantly. Just like in real life - what ever that is.

The AI knows how to harvest and was doing it well. I am not so sure with the latest versions but that may be a consequence of the bad health problem which has now been fixed.

Animals will move into empty areas if they can enter the "biomes"

 

[JosEPh_II]

No the area is basically pristine as the AI neighbor only had 1 city due to the Bug Koshling fixed today.

I do realize that with a lower number of Civs on a Map, that I use, there will be more Animals and Neanders. And what spurred me to post was Hydro's reaction to the map when he did my challenge recently.

Like I said I like getting all these animals but was concerned that the AI might not be benefiting from it as well as I am.

JosEPh

 

[wolfensoul9]

Joseph, I do understand that one should be respectful of one's elders, and I mean that sincerely. Simply...too often I see you making claims that something is wrong or unbalanced in the game in GENERAL, when it will be as a result of the specific circumstances of your current game.

Case in point, the aforementioned AI to size ratio, and that bug where the AI wouldn't expand. With those two combined, I would expect nothing less than that screenshot.

Seven to twelve on huge, eh? Well, you can play your games like that if you want. I personally try to make sure the ratio is always constant with the base amount of AI given to a standard size map, on the grounds that that was what was recommended by the actual devs of Civ IV, and I'm sure they did EXTENSIVE play testing for standard.

So, I operate as if they know what's best.

Since huge is about twice as big as standard, I play with 14 AIs.

Just to give you my philosophy.

 

[Thunderbrd]

No the area is basically pristine as the AI neighbor only had 1 city due to the Bug Koshling fixed today.

I do realize that with a lower number of Civs on a Map, that I use, there will be more Animals and Neanders. And what spurred me to post was Hydro's reaction to the map when he did my challenge recently.

Like I said I like getting all these animals but was concerned that the AI might not be benefiting from it as well as I am.

JosEPh

That sure was a LOT of animals. I wonder if the game speed you play at (and Hydro reacted to when testing that speed) has anything to do with enhanced spawn rates? It might be a game speed balance issue regarding spawning. On a Giant map we're getting what I feel is a perfect animal spawn rate but that picture does represent far too many I think. So my suspect is game speed, though I don't know too much about the spawning mechanism yet.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Joseph, I do understand that one should be respectful of one's elders, and I mean that sincerely. Simply...too often I see you making claims that something is wrong or unbalanced in the game in GENERAL, when it will be as a result of the specific circumstances of your current game.

Case in point, the aforementioned AI to size ratio, and that bug where the AI wouldn't expand. With those two combined, I would expect nothing less than that screenshot.

Seven to twelve on huge, eh? Well, you can play your games like that if you want. I personally try to make sure the ratio is always constant with the base amount of AI given to a standard size map, on the grounds that that was what was recommended by the actual devs of Civ IV, and I'm sure they did EXTENSIVE play testing for standard.

So, I operate as if they know what's best.

Since huge is about twice as big as standard, I play with 14 AIs.

Just to give you my philosophy.

To each his own then.

The Real point is I've been testing this Mod since it's beginning and the Mod that spawned C2C. I Know what is involved. I know what influences it. I also know when something is out of line. I also don't go by the "recommended" Civ IV devs outline as that is outdated for this Mod.

C'mon wolfy!

JosEPh

 

[Kreatur]

is it possible to give the several farm buildings another ore requierement? for example the horse farm could requiere horses in citiy vicinity ore the building horse heard. so the heards would be more usefull.

ps there is no wild animal that represent some sort of wild sheep. it is the only animal recource that dont have something like this

 

[JosEPh_II]

is it possible to give the several farm buildings another "Or" requirement? for example the horse farm could require horses in city vicinity Or the building horse heard. so the herds would be more useful.

ps there is no wild animal that represent some sort of wild sheep. it is the only animal resource that don't have something like this

The Mouflon is supposed to represent sheep, and the Ibex goats. But they use the same "herd"

I just wish the +1 for the Farms would be removed. The benefits of the "Farm" greatly outweighs the potential for

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

I just wish the +1 for the Farms would be removed. The benefits of the "Farm" greatly outweighs the potential for

I have been thinking about it now that we have diseases like Swine Flu and Bird Flu.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

is it possible to give the several farm buildings another ore requierement? for example the horse farm could requiere horses in citiy vicinity ore the building horse heard. so the heards would be more usefull.

ps there is no wild animal that represent some sort of wild sheep. it is the only animal recource that dont have something like this

Yes we can now but it is a lot of work.

 

[Baradar67]

Hi all.

Not sure if this is a bug, a new feature or just me messing with the XML/map generator. I've been searching the forums for about 8 hours for info on latest features or similar problem but can't find much.

V26, no SVN. It's around 20000BC and I have no sea life whatsoever but plenty of land animals. Gigantic map made with planet generator but I changed the xml to have masses of ocean resources.

Any ideas what might cause this or where I should look for the spawning info?

Thanks

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Hi all.

Not sure if this is a bug, a new feature or just me messing with the XML/map generator. I've been searching the forums for about 8 hours for info on latest features or similar problem but can't find much.

V26, no SVN. It's around 20000BC and I have no sea life whatsoever but plenty of land animals. Gigantic map made with planet generator but I changed the xml to have masses of ocean resources.

Any ideas what might cause this or where I should look for the spawning info?

Thanks

People were complaining about spawning sea animals slowing the game down so I changed the date that they start spawning to about the time people get canoes. The actual spawn dates are in the CIV4SpawnInfos.XML file found in the folder Assets/XL/Units

 

[Baradar67]

Thanks heaps DH for the quick reply and info. I know from all my reading this morning that it's one of those things that you've been tinkering with over time.

I didn't realise there was a spawn xml file, never used it or needed it before.

As I don't get in here much (usually every second version released) let me just say thanks to you and the team for all your hard work.

 

[Koshling]

I didn't realise there was a spawn xml file, never used it or needed it before.

There wasn't. We added it about a year back, so we could perform spawns in the DLL (performance) while still giving good control to the modder (declaratively now rather than algorithmically via Python as was needed before)

 

[Baradar67]

There wasn't. We added it about a year back, so we could perform spawns in the DLL (performance) while still giving good control to the modder (declaratively now rather than algorithmically via Python as was needed before)

Thanks Koshling, that would explain it. As it turned out, 20000 was exactly right as it was 19960BC on snail when my first raft hit the water.

That was with me being one of those vile reloaders that loves to pop goody huts as tech only (I don't know why I don't just remove the other options in HandicapInfo amd change all techs to poppable in techinfos). A great thing about C2C is that with the speed of the game there is no point to popping every goody hut. Apart from every tech not being poppable, you aren't able to build everything fast enough to get any use from them.

You guys should know that until C2C moves to Civ V (or 6) I just don't see the point of playing them. Thanks again.