Subdued Animals in C2C discussions

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

Here is a Lionfish. First we need to make this poisonous some way. Probably have to see TB for this. Also its native range is mostly the Indian Ocean but also the western Pacific. However in more recent times it has become in invasive species in the Caribbean. So this is at least a mostly southern hemisphere species like you were wanting.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

Here is a Remora.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@DH

Here is a Lionfish. First we need to make this poisonous some way. Probably have to see TB for this. Also its native range is mostly the Indian Ocean but also the western Pacific. However in more recent times it has become in invasive species in the Caribbean. So this is at least a mostly southern hemisphere species like you were wanting.

For now just use some extra strength to reflect poison - once we get to developing the poisons we'll be happy to have the lionfish!

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

Using RWN's spread sheet I found the following problems with species ranges. Note I realize its just the general area but some are WAY off.



Siberian Tiger - Should not be past the Southern Hemisphere. Should only be in Asia. Currently goes from north to south in the Asia-Oceania sectors.

Jaguar - Should not be in Australia sector. Currently covers both South American and Oceania. It should cover all South America and Southern North America (ex. The American Southwest).

Bongo - Shows no range. Should be In African Equator.

Water Buffalo - Should not have such a wide range. It should be Africa and Asia.

Cheetah - Should not be so North. At most it should be the Mediterranean. it should mostly be in Africa.

Cobra - Should be in Africa and Asia. Not North or South America.

Hyena - Same problem as the Cheetah and same range.\

Ibex - They are a Eurasian species so no North America, South America or Oceania.

Iguana - They are limited to South America, Tropical North America and Oceania (Fiji specifically).

Kookaburra - Should only be in Australia not Asia.

Lion - Should be limited to Africa and the Middle East. If you want American Lions we can make a separate unit in the future.

Lion Pack - Too far north.

Macaw - Should be only South America and Central America.

Monitor Lizard - Seems to be inverted. Should have Africa, Asia and Australia.

Panther - This is hard since a panther can be a Black Jaguar or a Black Leopard. If this is a Jaguar it should be South America and Central America. If a Leopard it should be Africa and Asia. I am thinking the Panther should be a Black Leopard since we don't have a Leopard, but do have a Jaguar.

Parrot - Seems like its range is inverted and should be all across the Equator.

Procoptodon - Should not be in Asia, only Australia.

Ratel - Should not be in Australia or South America. Only in Africa.

Sea Otter - Should have a much wider Range. Basically all the Northern Hemisphere. We even have them here off the coast of southern California.

Taipir - Should be only in South America. Also should be renamed and the other Tapir species added.

Tern = Should be both the Arctic Circle and Antarctic Circle. They have a long migration route from pole to pole.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There are C2C regional animals and there are niche/flavor animals for random maps.

Random maps mean that where there is land on Earth there may not be in the game and vice versa. The regional animals are there to support this. In the Northern Hemisphere this usually just means an extended east-west spread. In the Southern Hemisphere it includes a spread to the south as well.

Niche animals are restricted to their real world ranges and therefor may not appear in some games. The Lemur is one such niche animal.

Even though South America extends into the Northern Hemisphere in the real world in C2C it is not considered to. This means that all N/S American animals need to be moved around a bit.

Also in the real world some of the United States of Indonesia are below the equator and in the game area we call Oceania.

Not only that but we need to make sure that each region is balanced. There is still a problem with S. America and Oceania not having enough animals and/or buildings. Also I recently had a game where I was mostly in the Africa region and did not get any herd animals at all, so there is the potential for imbalance there as well.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

The thing is in real life the niches ARE balanced. Even when you separate them into North America, South America, Europe, Africa, Asia and Oceania. I also have made a ton of animals for you that you have yet to put in that will help balance these.

The big cats seem to be the biggest problem here. Going in ranges they should not go in. Its no shocker that Africa has the most, but they are also balanced by other predators like bears or canines.

| North America | South America | Europe | Africa | Asia | Oceania Big Cat Niche |Sabertooth/Cougar|Sabertooth/Jaguar|Cave Lion|Lion/Leopard/Cheetah|Tiger/Snow Leopard|Thylacoleo
Dog Niche |Wolf/Coyote|Maned Wolf|Wolf|Wild Dog/Jackal|Wolf/Dhole|Thylacinus/Dingo
Bear Niche |Grizzly/Black Bear/Polar Bear|Speckled Bear|Cave Bear/Brown Bear|Hyena|Sun Bear/Sloth Bear|Koala (Just Kidding)

 

[Rwn]

I assume Hyena should belong the the Dog niche instead of Bear niche? (in-game it's not in the dog, but in the scavengers category)

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well there are no bears in Africa and there are no Hyenas outside of Africa (except for limited range in Asia). Aand bears can ve scavengers too. Even big cats are scavengers. For instance sometimes Hyenas will kill prey and its the Lions who scavenge from the Hyenas.

 

[Rwn]

Well there are no bears in Africa and there are no Hyenas outside of Africa (except for limited range in Asia). Aand bears can ve scavengers too. Even big cats are scavengers. For instance sometimes Hyenas will kill prey and its the Lions who scavenge from the Hyenas.

The problem is, Hyenas are not equivalent to the other bears in-game (which give Bear myth, Bear trainer, Bear stories...).

If you need one, there was a bear in (Northern) Africa, the Atlas Bear, until it was completely wiped out by hunting.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Currently we have th following Myth groups for the Big Cats.

Big Cat Myths | Paleolithic | Lion | Striped | Spotted North America |Sabertooth|Sabertooth|Sabertooth|Sabertooth, Lynx
South America |Sabertooth|Sabertooth|Sabertooth|Sabertooth, Jaguar
Europe |Cave Lion|Cave Lion| |Lynx
Africa | |Lion| |Leopard,Cheetah
Asia | | | Tiger|Snow Leopard, Lynx
Oceania | | | |

If we had the Cougar and Thylacoleo it would be

Big Cat Myths | Paleolithic | Lion | Striped | Spotted North America |Sabertooth|Sabertooth, Cougar||Lynx
South America |Sabertooth|Sabertooth|| Jaguar
Europe |Cave Lion|Cave Lion| |Lynx
Africa | |Lion| |Leopard,Cheetah
Asia | | | Tiger|Snow Leopard, Lynx
Oceania |Thylacoleo | Thylacoleo | |Thylacoleo

The reason for Spotted Cat Myth is because of the boost it gives to building certain religious buildings. If you have three each with a boost you will sometime get 3 times the boost for those buildings and sometimes zero. IIRC the boost is for Egyptian, Mesopotamian and Mesoamerican religious buildings.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

If you want the Lion could possibly extend to Asia for the Asiatic Lion. That would help Asia have 3 out of 4 like the other groups do.

I also seemed to have forgotten some.

Key
Blue = Done but not Implemented
Purple = Have but not Converted
Red = Don't Have
* = Marsupial

Cats
- Sabertooth
- Cave Lion
- Lion
- Lion Pack
- Siberian Tiger
- Bengal Tiger
- Cheetah
- Panther (Leopard)
- Snow Leopard
- Jaguar
- Lynx
- Caracal
- Cougar
- Thylacoleo*
- Ocelot
- Asiatic Lion
- Clouded Leopard

Dogs
- Dire Wolf
- Wolf
- Dhole
- Red Fox
- Arctic Fox
- Fennec Fox
- Dingo
- Ethiopian Wolf
- Thylacanus*
- Wild Dog
- Maned Wolf
- Jackal
- Coyote

Bears
- Cave Bear
- Polar Bear
- Grizzly
- Bear (Brown)
- Black Bear
- Sloth Bear
- Speckled Bear
- Sun Bear
- Moon Bear
- Giant Panda
- Atlas Bear
- Short Faced Bear

 

[Thunderbrd]

Great plan there H!

Can you show us the plans (and current layout) for Snakes as well? I'm really looking forward to a Rattlesnake... and the dissolution of the Viper into some more specified critters. (I'll need it for the varying types of poisons they carry.)

Also... Spiders and Scorpions may not be very STRONG creatures but when poison goes in I'll need them if at all possible.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@DH

If you want the Lion could possibly extend to Asia for the Asiatic Lion. That would help Asia have 3 out of 4 like the other groups do.

it does not need them if made up for in other categories. Asia has more bears, Oceania has more marsupials.

Primates
- Gorilla, Chimpanzee Africa
- old world monkeys Africa and Asia plus a niche European one
- new world monkeys South America
- lemurs niche Africa

Amphibians
- Dart Frog represents the lot and probably should be every where

Reptiles
- Iguana currently represents all small and medium lizards so is everywhere
- Monitor needs to be split to represent the large lizards
- Crocs and Alligators etc need to represent all 23 types. Currently the Alligator represents both the North American and East Asian one.

Marsupials
- Opossum N/S Americas
- Kangaroos, Wallabies, etc. Oceania

 

[Thunderbrd]

About Amphibians... are we going to get Salamanders and Toads? They too have some interesting poison and locational varieties...

 

[MacCoise]

There comes a point when there are enough animals surely......

 

[Hydromancerx]

Amphibians
- Dart Frog represents the lot and probably should be every where

Reptiles
- Iguana currently represents all small and medium lizards so is everywhere
- Monitor needs to be split to represent the large lizards
- Crocs and Alligators etc need to represent all 23 types. Currently the Alligator represents both the North American and East Asian one.

1. I disagree, dart frogs are special for South America but I do agree that we could add more type of amphibians.

2. Actually that's why I made a genetic lizard. Iguanas for the most Part are limited to Central and South America.

Great plan there H!

Can you show us the plans (and current layout) for Snakes as well? I'm really looking forward to a Rattlesnake... and the dissolution of the Viper into some more specified critters. (I'll need it for the varying types of poisons they carry.)

Also... Spiders and Scorpions may not be very STRONG creatures but when poison goes in I'll need them if at all possible.

Key
Blue = Done but not Implemented
Purple = Have but not Converted
Red = Don't Have
* = Needs to Be Renamed.

Reptiles

Snakes
- Cobra (Africa and Asia)
- Puff Adder (Africa)
- Ball Python (Africa)
- Viper (Global)
- Anaconda (South America)
- Rattlesnake (North America and South America)
- Boa Constrictor (Central America and South America)
- Kingsnake (North America)
- Possible others.

Crocodiles
- American Alligator (North America)*
- Saltwater Crocodile (Australia)
- Freshwater Crocodile (Australia)*
- Nile Crocodile (Africa)
- Caiman (South America)
- American Crocodile (Central America)
- Chinese Alligator (Asia)
- Possible others.

Turtles
- Desert Tortoise (Global)
- Galapagos Tortoise (South America)
- Green Sea Turtle (Global Tropical Seas)*
- Leatherback Sea Turtle (Global Tropical Seas)
- Box Turtle (North America)
- Snapping Turtle (North America)
- Possible others.

Lizards
- Komodo Dragon (Asia)
- Tree Iguana (South America and Central America)*
- Nile Monitor (Africa)
- Lizard (Global)
- Gila Monster
- Frilled Lizard (Australia)
- Horned Lizard (North America)
- Water Monitor (Asia)
- Goanna (Australia)
- Marine Iguana (South America)
- Chameleon (Africa, Asia and Southern Europe)
- Possibly others.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@DH

Using RWN's spread sheet I found the following problems with species ranges. Note I realize its just the general area but some are WAY off.

Macaw - Should be only South America and Central America.

Parrot - Seems like its range is inverted and should be all across the Equator

There are some problems with the spread sheet. In a couple of places it is indeed inverted.

Macaw and Toucan are now limited to the Americas. Before they represented all tropical parrots.

Parrots now represent all the non-Americas parrots. African and Oceania parrots have had their range extended south but since this includes the New Zealand flightless parrot (almost extinct but being saved) this is not to bad. the Asian Parrots have been limited to the equator. I need to check that the grass parrot range is taken into consideration when placing he parrot resource.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld, Thunderbrd or Sparth

I was trying to convert some new animal units but I keep getting this error.

Which leads to this happening where ALL units are unique units for EVERY civ.

I tried substituting the mesh for the African Grey Parrot with the Armadillo to see if it would work and it apparently did.

Here the files for my broken African Grey Parrot and Steller's Sea Eagle.

If anyone could help solve this weird problem.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There's some coding issues at the moment in trying to sort out a way to adapt to a missing default unit defined on a unit class due to modular removal of the unit defined. I think I've got a solution working but it does require you delete the cache after you update to my next commit.

If you're getting this, perhaps a unit definition was put in where it's asking for a unitclass definition?
Hmm... looking at the xml it looks to be right sooo... I'm not sure. Once I've fully compiled what I think are some fixes here I can test out the seaeagle module.

EDIT: Ok, tested the Seaeagle module and it went in just fine with the new dll and a cache delete. No issues with it causing trouble at that point though I haven't run it with the debug dll so there could be some less harmful error messages displaying on load.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@TB

Thanks for fixing. The Sea Eagle shows up without errors now. I still have to resize and stuff but at least I can see the unit without errors.