Successful Communism

[civver_764]

communist government

Does not compute.

 

[aelf]

The attempts of communism so far has taken places in existing countries, with common ethnicity, language and history to constantly undermine the socialist values. Perhaps it would work better if a state was created from scratch with this purpose (good luck finding a territory for this) and then call out for all commies in the world to emigrate there. A country of immigrants who only share values. It would be interesting to watch a fresh attempt from a safe spot, I'd say.

Existing attempts also kept a lot of individualism. A worker's hero is still a hero. There were statues of Lenin raised and enormous pictures of Mao. All organization of society must be done in a collectivist fashion. Important roles such as chairman should be rotated so often that everyone has been or will be chairman (in principle).

The society would have to be designed to deal with brain drain. Any successful individual who begin to feel that she deserved better should actually be encouraged to leave. The education system and management of knowledge/skills in organizations must be shaped to not concentrate ability to a few individuals. If anyone from this communist state received a Nobel prize it would have to be considered a failure. Progress should of course be welcomed but it would be dangerous for a commie society if it was a result of few individual's work. Let it be said that nothing will stop someone from gaining excellence in an area if she's hungry enough, therefore a generous "retirement package" (youwantmoneywellhere'smoneynowgtfo) is needed to avoid corruption (of values).

So commies, how's that for a start? There's still a lot of stuff to work out.

Sounds like a strawman.

You're welcome to write an Ayn Rand-style book about commies who go on such a retreat, though, if only to parody "collectivism" (as she essentially did to capitalism). That may actually be worth reading, at least.

Singapore didn't try to prime the pump in the 1997 financial crisis and came out of it just fine. Besides, you still didn't comment on my statement of how low Communist Party membership was in the country.

Maybe that's partly because leftists have been thrown in jail?

 

[stormbind]

Communism powered by a computer-monarchy

 

[Merkinball]

Does not compute.

Obviously I'm talking about centralized command economy "communism." Ya know, the kind that actually exists in reality on a national level.

 

[civver_764]

Obviously I'm talking about centralized command economy "communism." Ya know, the kind that actually exists in reality on a national level.

What you are referring to is state capitalism.

 

[Merkinball]

What you are referring to is state capitalism.

There is no such thing as state capitalism. What an oxymoron.

 

[Karalysia]

Sure there is. Look no further than China. State capitalism is the marriage of the state and big business characteristic of fascist regimes like Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.

 

[civver_764]

There is no such thing as state capitalism. What an oxymoron.

Is that so?

Capitalism is private ownership of capital, means of production, etc. Private entails a single entity. The government is a single entity.

A communist economy would be one where the workers' ran things democratically. Communist government is the true oxymoron.

Fun fact: The term capitalism was coined by Marxists and used as a derogatory term to make fun of you guys.

 

[Merkinball]

Is that so?

Capitalism is private ownership of capital, means of production, etc. Private entails a single entity. The government is a single entity.

A communist economy would be one where the workers' ran things democratically. Communist government is the true oxymoron.

Fun fact: The term capitalism was coined by Marxists and used as a derogatory term to make fun of you guys.

The government by definition is not private. A communist economy being run democratically is inherently a system of government. And a totalitarian one at that.

 

[Cutlass]

Indeed, but they still receive far more input than they are capable of generating. Even the largest corporations in the world - Exxon, WalMart, etc - still depend enormously on information received from the outside to function.

There is a price mechanism that will tell how much Exxon should refine or transport, and up to what point it is profitable to do so. A corporation working in a command economy would not have this sort of luxury.


An important distinction.

Even companies vastly smaller than that do not get good market information to the CEOs.

 

[Merkinball]

Sure there is. Look no further than China. State capitalism is the marriage of the state and big business characteristic of fascist regimes like Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.

That's not state capitalism either because state capitalism is an oxymoron. China is a blend of a capitalist welfare state with some central planning.

 

[Karalysia]

Communist government is also an oxymoron yet those seem to exist according to you.

 

[Merkinball]

Communist government is also an oxymoron yet those seem to exist according to you.

It depends on how you look at it. I consider Marxism to be the "communism" in its pure form with no government. The "communism" that cannot exist. Communism to me is the USSR, North Korea, and Cuba. It is Marxism applied across a nation which invariably must lead to totalitarianism and a centralized government. Pure Marxism simply cannot deliver what it promises without a central government.

 

[innonimatu]

The government by definition is not private. A communist economy being run democratically is inherently a system of government. And a totalitarian one at that.

If a democratic communist economy is totalitarian, then isn't a democratic elected government also totalitarian? Both direct their affairs according to the majority's will.
Unless you meant to admit that the "economy" encompasses much more, has much more power over people's lives, than the government. And if you accept that, isn't then the economy a political question? Politics is, after all, about the use and control of power.

 

[rollo1066]

It depends of what one considers a sucess. Do you measure it by size or growth of economy. If so todays China or post Stalin Soviet union (up to about 1970) were/are sucessfull. If sucess is measured by military power the same could be said. If sucess is measured by public approval it is very had to tell because most Communist governments haven't/don't allow enough freedom to really know this. If staying in power despite a near powerful enemy is a sucess Cuba could be considered a sucess.

 

[Merkinball]

If a democratic communist economy is totalitarian, then isn't a democratic elected government also totalitarian? - Innon

It can be yes. But is not necessarily so. A democratic communist system invariably demands everything it can from you, and provides you everything that you're to be given. A democratically elected government can run the entire gray scale though.

Both direct their affairs according to the majority's will. - Innon

This isn't exactly true, as most democratic nations have constitutions that bound the nations ability to be swayed into a tyranny of the majority. A communist nation won't have such a thing. You'll get your equal house, you'll get your equal healthcare, you'll get your equal everything, and you'll be happy and shut up. A democratically run communist nation could pretty do anything it wanted to you, could force you to do pretty much anything, could force you to give up pretty much anything. And all for the sake of the majority's will.

Unless you meant to admit that the "economy" encompasses much more, has much more power over people's lives, than the government. - Innon

I disagree, as government holds sway over the economy in total. Even in America.

 

[ilduce349]

Communism assumes everyone is equal, and in order for it to work everyone must be equal (and therefore identical). However we all know thats not the case. Some people r smarter, some r stronger, some r more beautiful, some r all 3. So in theory Communism is better, as a fascist, and a sworn enemy of communism I am willing to acknowledge that. But in real life capitalism works better. It encourages human nature. Encourages people to compete against each other, encourages them to work hard. If we r talk about ideal capitalism then we should talk about what ideal capitalism is:
Ideal communism suggests:
Everyone is equal

Ideal capitalism suggests:
I may be rich and u poor, but by working harder then u, we will become equals.

Ideal capitalism is perfect. It acknowledges that their is luck in this world, and that the world is far from perfect.

Also think about this. (2 all u communist who r arguing against capitalism)
If everyone was perfect imagine how boring the world would be. As a quote from a biblical analysis "perfection cannot be obtained indefinitely"
And as a quote from my favorite anime "The world isn't perfect, thats what makes it beautiful"
Both of those r true, perfection leads 2 boredom. describe what a perfect world would look like in ur eyes and wat u would want ur role to be in it, then imagine living like that 4ever. If ur life is fully planed out 4 u, then u cant call it life, as it was never urs from the start. (change is good, just not to much of it)
U may argue that if the world was perfect we would then loose knowledge of boredom or some bull, and the ability to be bored (or some bullsh*t like that) but that happened we would be soulless.

 

[azzaman333]

A true communist society cannot work on a large scale.

 

[civ_king]

Communism assumes everyone is equal, and in order for it to work everyone must be equal (and therefore identical). However we all know thats not the case. Some people r smarter, some r stronger, some r more beautiful, some r all 3. So in theory Communism is better, as a fascist, and a sworn enemy of communism I am willing to acknowledge that. But in real life capitalism works better. It encourages human nature. Encourages people to compete against each other, encourages them to work hard. If we r talk about ideal capitalism then we should talk about what ideal capitalism is:
Ideal communism suggests:
Everyone is equal

Ideal capitalism suggests:
I may be rich and u poor, but by working harder then u, we will become equals.

Ideal capitalism is perfect. It acknowledges that their is luck in this world, and that the world is far from perfect.

Also think about this. (2 all u communist who r arguing against capitalism)
If everyone was perfect imagine how boring the world would be. As a quote from a biblical analysis "perfection cannot be obtained indefinitely"
And as a quote from my favorite anime "The world isn't perfect, thats what makes it beautiful"
Both of those r true, perfection leads 2 boredom. describe what a perfect world would look like in ur eyes and wat u would want ur role to be in it, then imagine living like that 4ever. If ur life is fully planed out 4 u, then u cant call it life, as it was never urs from the start. (change is good, just not to much of it)
U may argue that if the world was perfect we would then loose knowledge of boredom or some bull, and the ability to be bored (or some bullsh*t like that) but that happened we would be soulless.

LOL LOL haxor! u iz nut cn spel!

please use English and not |\|00|3 5p34|<, please?

I may be rich and u poor, but by working harder then u, we will become equals.

you just suggested that working makes you poor, besides if we are going idealist than Communism>Capitalism

you do realize in an ideal Communist world that technology would race ahead and everyone would relax and it will be a workers paradise where you only have to work 8 hours a week

 

[ilduce349]

1. It saves time to type numbers instead of words (and time is money, and money is the most important thing in the capitalist world we live in)
2. sh*t i mean U may be rich and I poor, but by working harder then u, we will become equals
3. Capitalism>communism, because capitalism is more fun, and easier to maintain
my rant above clearly stated that, communism is boring, thats y we need capitolism
4, 8 hours, well lets do the math:
168 hours in a week
-8 hours of work
-60 hours of sleep (average sleep for an american in a week)
that leaves exactly 100 hours, wat do u intend 2 do with that time:
1. Cant play civ, not enough resource 4 their to be a civ disk 4 every person, not enough computers, not enough xboxes
2. cant read, the tree hugger trait i see in most communists i no means their wont be books
3. cant watch tv, same reason
4. In short can't do anything with ur free time, u will just be bored while walking around in circles cutting ur live expectancy in half as the only things 2 do will be weed and alchohol