Successful Communism

This. If there were unlimited resources, then prices would plummet abysmally, and the suppliers wouldn't make any money.

Capitalism is based on the concept that you can't have unlimited anything, and the limited supplies are given to those who are able to pay for it.
Partially. By unlimited resources I meant the raw land resources, but there is still effort to get them and the labor being sold. It does create more competition, which is bad for the major suppliers, but the same competition gives the consumer more choices. Isn't that the basis of the free market? The consumer makes the choices that benefit them?
 
Wait, what? No. Capitalism thrives on scarcity.

While that is true to an extent, I think it's more accurate to say that capitalism thrives on balance.
 
I have explained the difference 2 or 3 times no, i wont repeat
No you haven't, you've list falsehoods, fallacies and general silliness. That's not an "explanation", that's just you conveniently rationalising things until they fit with your preferred semantic model.

Capitalism works better then communism in every situation, unless, everyone is identical
Actually, doesn't capitalism work best when everyone is identical, because it provides everyone with an equal starting position and ensures that advantages are only gained by those who endeavour to obtain them? And communism seeks to construct a social and economic model which supersedes the innate differences between human beings, rather to unfairly exacerbate them as capitalism does. You have it, I would argue, exactly backwards.
 
Not balance, but control. Control, that is, of supply and demand, such that demand is always greater than supply. Else, profit maximization would not be possible.
Demand is not always greater than supply. There were a lot more E.T. cartridges for the Atari 2600 produced than there were sold. :)
 
Not balance, but control. Control, that is, of supply and demand, such that demand is always greater than supply. Else, profit maximization would not be possible.

Nonsense. In a true capitalist market there is no control over supply or demand. Both of those items are guided by the balance of supply and demand. When shortages occur, people are more than able to step in and capitalize on it. When surplus exists the weakest competitors are destroyed. Everything in capitalism is driven by this balance. And so long as people like Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, and Barack Obama stay out of the way, these market mechanisms work just fine. The last thing you need is those greedy fat cat meat packers colluding with leftist politicians to enact regulations to destroy their competitors and secure their dominance over a market place.
 
Nonsense. In a true capitalist market

We're talking about markets and capitalism, not about capitalist markets.

there is no control over supply or demand.

Except so-called consumer sovereignty.

And advertisement.

And taxation.

Both of those items are guided by the balance of supply and demand.

Both of which items?

When shortages occur, people are more than able to step in and capitalize on it.

Or not.

When surplus exists the weakest competitors are destroyed.

What makes them "weaker?" This isn't the jungle.

Everything in capitalism is driven by this balance.

But that's not a balance, that's equilibrium. And there's no reason to suppose an equilibrium is either equal or ideal.

And so long as people like Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, and Barack Obama stay out of the way, these market mechanisms work just fine. The last thing you need is those greedy fat cat meat packers colluding with leftist politicians to enact regulations to destroy their competitors and secure their dominance over a market place.

They destroyed my sovereign right to have human fingers in my hamburger meat. :(
 
Except so-called consumer sovereignty.

And advertisement.

And taxation. - Cheezy

I don't know what consumer sovereignty is, advertisement is influence, not control. While taxation is control, it is independent and antithetical to capitalism or free markets.

What makes them "weaker?" This isn't the jungle. - Cheezy

Lot's of things that I don't think are worth discussing here.

But that's not a balance, that's equilibrium. And there's no reason to suppose an equilibrium is either equal or ideal. - Cheezy

Equilibrium is balance. Or maybe I mean balance is equilibrium. Either way, it's a good thing. And in a free market who are you, or anyone else for that matter, given the consent to decide that the market doesn't represent what is equal or ideal?
 
They destroyed my sovereign right to have human fingers in my hamburger meat. :(

And lead paint on my toys, and mercury in my medicine.

Regulations are there to protect the consumers. Contrary to popular belief, the individual has a very hard time voting with his dollar.

What's that PT Barnum saying? A sucker is born every minute.

Merkinball said:
Equilibrium is balance. Or maybe I mean balance is equilibrium. Either way, it's a good thing. And in a free market who are you, or anyone else for that matter, given the consent to decide that the market doesn't represent what is equal or ideal?

No, equilibrium is not balance. In a market with scarcity, the equilibrium price will rise in favor of the producer. It's not equal.
 
I think we have drifted into two different areas. The type of planning I'm talking about is primarily industrial planning between two corporations, not really planning on the consumer end of things. But I maintain that they heavily influence the markets they sell into, beginning long before their new product actually hits shelves, either literally or figuratively. After all, the more predictable costs and profits are, the less waste there is, and so long as they can at least reasonably guarantee a reasonable return on a given investment, its worth the risk.
I understand what you're talking about, I am just saying it is no longer true. Fordism is quite dead, at least in its pure form. Every corporation, including industrial giants, is struggling to be more responsive to the market. A tremendous amount of effort is being put at developing assembly lines that can quickly be converted for a different product.

Where the heavy planning goes on is for corporations like US Steel, for example, or Lockheed; the latter of which enjoys a virtually invincible and singular customer.
US Steel is largely a failed company nowadays, and part of the reason is their lack of responsiveness to market variation (granted, they have many other flaws as well). I work in the steel industry, and I can assure you that even a titan like ArcelorMittal, which dwarfs US Steel, tries its hardest to be able to able to quickly respond to the market.

The growth of the service sector has facilitated this I'm sure. The point is not merely that planning is a luxury, but rather that it is a necessity. To advocate a return to markets in these areas is essentially luddism.
All corporations, industrial included, are trying to be more responsive to the market and to rely less on long term planning. Of course planning to one degree or another will always exist - but flexible and adjustable production is the way of the future, not a massive assembly line of black Ford T's.

Well they didn't fail, they just weren't up to par. Presumably, using your logic, they could collect enough information to be reasonably responsive to consumer demands, even if they never equally the response rate of a market. But the problem is decisions being made from afar; where planning should take place (were we attempting to plan these things) is in the areas most directly involved with consumers, not in the capital city thousands of miles away; maybe even not across town.
The problem is even the best central planning never managed to come close to market results, on the long term, so why insist on it?

The great corporations that engage in planning do so because all other corporations in their would-be market do the same. They cooperate in this, because their goal is sustainability through predictability, not profit maximization and destruction of competition. This is why corporate buy-outs aren't really a big deal, its a change of the name on the front door, but that's about it.
As I said, we live in a world of decreasing reliance on planning and where industrial titans of old collapse if they're not responsive enough to the market. The customer is king.

I couldn't think of any. They may rubber-stamp things their managers decide, but they are hardly fountains of original ideas that shape the company; unlike their entrepreneurial counterparts, of course.
CEO's are just managers, senior level managers. They're capable of great ideas just like any other manager, and they're also sometimes a complete waste of resources. It's also important to note that a good part of a CEO's job is to name effective managers.
 
No, equilibrium is not balance. In a market with scarcity, the equilibrium price will rise in favor of the producer. It's not equal. - Owen

Yes, equilibrium is balance. It is a lack of fluctuation. It is steadiness. In a market with scarcity equilibrium price will not favor the producer because a market with scarcity is not in equilibrium. A market with scarcity will invariably attract competitors and remove scarcity from the equation. Eventually forming a relationship where there is adequate balance between the demands of the producer/supplier and the customer. And that is equilibrium.
 
This has convinced me that State Planned Economy can work, if it is computer intensive (plus major computer use will drive computer innovation)
 
Too many tanks living in California :crazyeye:
 
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