Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 11, 2014.
1) Yeah, but I like Catholicism be founded in Trier or wherever sometimes.
But either you like divergence or you don't. Railroading the 3000 BC scenario goes against its purpose imo.
While Leoreth has a point, it is also true that AIs often fail to build shrines in the 3000BC scenario, which is strange because AIs are usually quick to build shrines in vanilla BTS.
Maybe this has to do with a) non-prophet GP points from wonders? b) AI civs collapsing?
Also I have never seen the AI build the Dome of the Rock, in any scenarios.
Does this has to do with AI priority? Or is the AI blocked from building that particular wonder?
Maybe shrines can be auto-built in the right time period if the holy city is under Independent control.
That sounds too exploitable for human players..
No, as a way to get free shrines without consuming a Great Prophet himself.
One could conquer the entire Middle East but deliberately leave Jerusalem or Mecha independent until they receive free Shrine.
For instance when you are aiming for Islamic Religious Victory (requires 5 shrines) as the Ottomans.
I don't know if I'm remembering correctly but in vanilla bts founding a religion basically guaranteed a great prophet almost immediately so maybe that's why AIs were more likely to build shrines? They don't have to wait for the great prophet?
I don't think that was the case. The only advantage that founding a religion gives you for creating a Great Prophets is early access to Temples for Priest slots.
No, I meant that could be fixed by making shrines only auto-build during autoplay.
I dont know... the best solution IMO would be to encourage AIs to build shrines when holding holy cities, especially those of major religions.
Also, another suggestion: as things are now, the best locations to build Krak des Chevaliers are Spain and Rome. Also its effect is most utilized in wars against fellow Christians rather than those against Muslims, barbarians, or natives.
How about changing its requirement to foreign continent (different than that of the capital), and changing its effect to apply only in cities on foreign continents?
I remember Leoreth saying that the Middle East in-game is considered part of Europe, so one wouldn't be able to build it in Syria like it's meant to be.
Maybe it should require desert or something?
Yet another suggestion:
Wonders that give free buildings seem too powerful, especially modern wonders because a) they are not religion-specific and so the tech leader can easily grab all of them b) the free buildings themselves are high cost buildings.
These wonders include the the Krak de Chevaliers (castle), the Versailles (estate), Abbey Mills (sewer), Westminster (courthouse), Chateau Frontenac (Raliway Stn), and Brooklyn Bridge (Levee).
Maybe these wonders could be adjusted so that
a) they give production boosts to the buildings instead of granting free ones.
Brooklyn Bridge would still be powerful if its effect was nerfed to 'double production for levees'.
b) they give bonuses to the buildings. In civ2, the Oracle doubled the effect of temples. For example Westminster could grant free statemen to courthouses.
This way the wonder would actually synergize with the Constitution civic and not diminish its effect.
The Abbey Mills could grant additional health from sewers.
c) at least require the building they are granting.
It is kind of strange to see the Krak des Chevaliers being built in a city without a castle, or the Chateau Frontenac built in a city without a railway station.
(Probably this should be the case for some other wonders as well,
like the Bell Rock Lighthouse should require a lighthouse and the Flavian Ampitheater should require an arena)
I've always loved wonders like Borobudur. They have such powerful effects that you can build an entire economy around them. It's +1 Production to all Priests encourages players to plan ahead and build a lot of Temples and Cathedrals before it's even built, and afterwards switch to civics like Republic or Meritocracy to further benefit. Many wonders you just build and forget about, letting their effect passively boost your gameplay; which is what makes Borobudur such a fun wonder to build.
I like this idea. For me, if I'm playing a expansionist civ I'm really just grinding to get all those late-game free building wonders so I don't have to spend hammers building them which is a bit boring. This would make it a lot more of a strategic choice.
Nice ideas and I agree free buildings are too strong with large empires. Not-free castles could (again) increase happiness with Krak for example, as medieval Europe is struggling with that. Increased defense would be pointless, as AI rarely mounts a formidable attack.
Krak already grants retreat to capital instead of destruction for defeated garrisons, which is quite powerful, especially in wars between AIs. That is why I suggested that it be changed to affect garrisons only in foreign continents.
Indeed, I forgot about this effect as I've never seen it, despite building Krak a few times .
Do military units have the ability to 'massacre the non-believers' like in Sword of Islam ? If so why not put that in here ? It would also help with medieval period pagan URV gameplay.
You mean removing non-state religions from a city? If so, we have the Religious Persecutor unit for that.
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