Suggestions and Requests
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
Normal for most civs, Epic if you have a lot of military expansion to do, and Marathon if you have nothing else going on in your life.
To add onto this the mod is to my knowledge balanced around Normal, but for some of the military goals there is very little room for error on that speed. Epic helps a lot in that regard.
Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 9,927
It is already implemented, albeit there are many conditions you need to meet and I think new civ becomes independent (decolonization) and not your vassal.I'd love an option to be able to release captured territories as your vassals. Is it a possibility to see it implemented?
I have tried to complete the historical goals for civilizations on Paragon difficulty (mainly on v1.15).
Most on normal game speed but some on marathon speed as there is alot of movement involved.
For some goals its simply not possible. These are usually related to research X techs first during a certain era (English, Japan and a few new ones).
Espionage is the way to go to keep science up to par at Paragon difficulty, but it will only take you so far as even with the teach leader.
Sure you can snatch a few first discoveries if you are lucky. But not 8-10 like these goals require.
Would it be possible to replace these goals with something simpler which do not require you to be tech leader for a long time?
Most on normal game speed but some on marathon speed as there is alot of movement involved.
For some goals its simply not possible. These are usually related to research X techs first during a certain era (English, Japan and a few new ones).
Espionage is the way to go to keep science up to par at Paragon difficulty, but it will only take you so far as even with the teach leader.
Sure you can snatch a few first discoveries if you are lucky. But not 8-10 like these goals require.
Would it be possible to replace these goals with something simpler which do not require you to be tech leader for a long time?
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Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
So basically:
Radio Yerevan was asked: "Is it correct that Grigori Grigorievich Grigoriev won a luxury car at the All-Union Championship in Moscow?"
Radio Yerevan answered: "In principle, yes. But first of all it was not Grigori Grigorievich Grigoriev, but Vassili Vassilievich Vassiliev; second, it was not at the All-Union Championship in Moscow, but at a Collective Farm Sports Festival in Smolensk; third, it was not a car, but a bicycle; and fourth he didn't win it, but rather it was stolen from him."
Enyavar
Prince
- Joined
- May 16, 2015
- Messages
- 510
I'm preferably playing on Imperator difficulty myself, and have to agree with Dan: With 1/2 the tech rate as when you play normally, the goals become impossible to reach unless you have an advantage.
I'm getting the necessary advantage from civ switching in my games: start as an earlier civ, prebuild some cities and infrastructure that will help you when you switch.
That is gruesome groundwork though.
A more simple way is to manually adjust the tech modifiers in the world builder, to a level that challenges you but doesn't make you tech leader too easily. In some cases, I do that for my groundwork civs.
If you go that way, Dan, could you post your tech rate adjustments in a gameplay guide thread?
I have played on 1.17, Imperator with Greece and China, while adjusting the tech rate modifier from 120% to 80%.
While that seemed to make it be a bit too easy, it enabled my precursor-civ to reasonably compete with the surrounding civs in the ancient/medieval times. Maybe 90% would have still been okay. Later on, I switched to England and Tibet respectively, and played with the infrastructure that Greece/China prepared, while leaving the tech modifiers as they were for my new civs.
Oblivionyx
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2018
- Messages
- 173
Perhaps "Most Serene Republic of (capital)" can be added as a dynamic name for Italy when running Republic? Might be a dumb suggestion since we already have Italian Maritime Republics which covers it better...
Sure I want a challenge. But this is not mere a challenge, its impossible.
As to open world builder and modify stuff. Well that way you can cheat and win any game. Not much fun there.
In general historical goal should be set so they can be accomplished. They should be a challenge on monarch and extremely hard on paragon, yet possible.
As to open world builder and modify stuff. Well that way you can cheat and win any game. Not much fun there.
In general historical goal should be set so they can be accomplished. They should be a challenge on monarch and extremely hard on paragon, yet possible.
Edmund Ironside
White Rabbit Object
If we're talking about UHV difficulty then Harappa might need toning down. Even on the easiest setting I couldn't get any of the goals. Now this is probably because I suck at this game, but I still normally manage to get 1 or 2 goals for most civs on the easiest setting!
Enyavar
Prince
- Joined
- May 16, 2015
- Messages
- 510
"Half the tech rate" is not really a hyperbole.
I just checked with Babylon: Starting the 3000 BCE scenario, normal speed, these are the initial research durations for Mining, owning just one city and having the slider on 100% research:
Heir: 8 turns
Regent (standard difficulty for DoC): 10 turns
Monarch: 11 turns
Imperator: 13 turns
Paragon: 14 turns
It's just the first tech, and already 40% longer research duration. On higher difficulty, maintenance is higher, too, so the tech slider is going down even sooner.
Not a problem with Babylon (unless you want to reach their tech-based UHVs), but a severe problem with larger empires.
I experienced that recently with China (1.16 develop): You need to expand that civ, and fast, cover your resources with plantations for happiness, and then grow and whip your cities, churn out wonders, soldiers and temples. For all that, you need techs, but with the respective longer research times, you have quickly built all available buildings in your first cities... so, go for the building-techs? Build another dozen workers and pave every tile in your proto-empire with roads? Produce archers to immediately destroy them, so you don't have to pay unit maintenance? Definitely not build settlers, because more cities will bog you down even more. Well, now I'm talking strategy here, and on higher difficulty, you need to completely rethink that strategy.
And what Dan mentioned, is specifically the tech UHVs: While your tech rate goes down and your maintenance up, the AI has just the reverse going for them, allowing them higher teching sliders. Without exploiting (and yes, I'd call some of my civ switching exploits) the UHVs are beyond "challenge".
@Leoreth, I don't blame you on that, it is my decision whenever I'm not playing on Regent; and balancing 50 civilizations on every difficulty and game speed level doesn't need to be done by you, yourself. You developed the game for Regent/Normal, I assume, and that's fair enough.
If there are more guys like @DanLT3 and me, we could playtest various difficulty levels and speeds. (I could even try to not civ-switch for that, *gasp*)
I just checked with Babylon: Starting the 3000 BCE scenario, normal speed, these are the initial research durations for Mining, owning just one city and having the slider on 100% research:
Heir: 8 turns
Regent (standard difficulty for DoC): 10 turns
Monarch: 11 turns
Imperator: 13 turns
Paragon: 14 turns
It's just the first tech, and already 40% longer research duration. On higher difficulty, maintenance is higher, too, so the tech slider is going down even sooner.
Not a problem with Babylon (unless you want to reach their tech-based UHVs), but a severe problem with larger empires.
I experienced that recently with China (1.16 develop): You need to expand that civ, and fast, cover your resources with plantations for happiness, and then grow and whip your cities, churn out wonders, soldiers and temples. For all that, you need techs, but with the respective longer research times, you have quickly built all available buildings in your first cities... so, go for the building-techs? Build another dozen workers and pave every tile in your proto-empire with roads? Produce archers to immediately destroy them, so you don't have to pay unit maintenance? Definitely not build settlers, because more cities will bog you down even more. Well, now I'm talking strategy here, and on higher difficulty, you need to completely rethink that strategy.
And what Dan mentioned, is specifically the tech UHVs: While your tech rate goes down and your maintenance up, the AI has just the reverse going for them, allowing them higher teching sliders. Without exploiting (and yes, I'd call some of my civ switching exploits) the UHVs are beyond "challenge".
@Leoreth, I don't blame you on that, it is my decision whenever I'm not playing on Regent; and balancing 50 civilizations on every difficulty and game speed level doesn't need to be done by you, yourself. You developed the game for Regent/Normal, I assume, and that's fair enough.
If there are more guys like @DanLT3 and me, we could playtest various difficulty levels and speeds. (I could even try to not civ-switch for that, *gasp*)
Early civ UHVs are inherently tighter than others, because there aren't as many moving parts to demonstrate skill at the game. So they have to be a bit more challenging to be of any challenge for mid level players at all.
Early age civs usually depend on doing research with great people (atleast if you want to reach some of the tougher goals), thus the science modifier does not hurt them as bad as later civs.
But in later ages great people does no longer give a full tech, rather just a small part of it. Making using great people for research less usefull.
But in later ages great people does no longer give a full tech, rather just a small part of it. Making using great people for research less usefull.
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