Suggestions and Requests

[Chep]

I like this idea, however the "add city to core" part is too strong.

But if you have them build a special Courthouse-style building ("Newspaper" or something like that?) which a) lowers this city's maintenance and b) counts as a third -1 multiplier for that cities population (on top of Courthouse&Jail) this could be nice while still being within the framework of expansion stability.

 

[Novicenoble]

I thought that core and historical area things are something like ethnic-related, so these buildings should be late game ones. The one requires nationalism and printing press, and another one requires mass media will be good IMAO.

 

[ozqar]

I like this idea, however the "add city to core" part is too strong.

Well, yes, if you're playing as the US, Prussia, Japan, Russia, China, etc., you don't need more cities in your core. But, the smaller civs (think Tibet, Maya, Inca) could really use the help, and the second city wouldn't have to be adjacent to the original core. Instead of turning city into a core one, make city historical could be an option that is less overpowered.

 

[youtien]

bribing only 1 member of the congress costs you up to several turns of beakers (translated either into gold or espionage points) plus has no guarenteed result and even risks further diplomatic troubles.



Uhm...what?
It's not like I have the "elaborate" diplomacy options that SMAC had (where you could ask other civs to vote in your favour at the next congress via the diplomacy-screen) in Civ4.



That is precisely what I am saying.
Make sure there is no one and nothing to contest you when a congress comes around.

In my Russia game, the first congress took my New Orleans, the 2nd came up when I built Lubyanka for many turns, so I used my EP on all AI and got New Orleans back, but my fully developed Denver was voted to hand over to Americans. I didn't want to fight so I agreed.

There was no 3rd congress, because I built the UN. I think this system is fine enough.

 

[Leoreth]

By the way, I agree that the options to influence Congress decisions are too expensive (their cost is based on the target civ's commerce output), I will reduce them at some point.

 

[Visard]

By the way, I agree that the options to influence Congress decisions are too expensive (their cost is based on the target civ's commerce output), I will reduce them at some point.

This might explain why I once got negative influence cost against Spain.
I think now that their maintenance costs were higher than their income
(they had only one really big city in europe but controlled more than half of South America).
So instead of losing money I got money after bribing Spain.

 

[Leoreth]

Haha okay, I will also address this phenomenon.

 

[Publicola]

I was recently stunned to learn that the Great Wall of China is not as ancient as I once thought; in its modern form it only dates to the mid-1500's, with its earliest brick-and-mortar section (in the Ordos Loop region) completed in 1474. While an earlier 'Great Wall' did exist, they were often a string of mainly earthen walls, made of dirt and gravel. What 'real' fortifications existed were not so much a 'Great Wall' as they were a string of border forts or walled cities along the northern frontier.

I wonder if it might be a good idea to alter the effects of the Great Wall wonder in-game to better reflect this reality. The two possibilities would be to either move the tech prerequisite to much later in the game (to better reflect its modern construction) or to keep its current tech prerequisite and alter its immediate effects. This second one would be my preference -- I'm a big fan of playing as China, but I'm inclined to say the Great Wall is fairly overpowered, at least in the basic version 1.12.

Given its historical disrepair, it's hard to argue that the Great Wall did succeed in keeping all 'barbarians' out, though it had some use against invaders from the eastern steppes. I'd be inclined to add it as a combat modifier, maybe a generic +50% or more against all barbarian units. Or use it in conjunction with the Terracotta Army, and double the number of experience points (and hence Great General points) gained in combat with barbarians.

One of the Great Wall's more interesting (real-world) effects was when it was extended to the Jade Gate (Yumen Pass) to protect Chinese merchants travelling the Silk Road. I've never seen a proposal to use it in that context, as a boon to commerce rather than (or in addition) to defense. Perhaps it could function much like the Great Lighthouse by adding trade routes, or by permitting trade routes to form between you and independent cities, or by adding a bonus to existing land-based routes, or adding a bonus to the 'Silk Road' corporation, or even by allowing the Silk Road to expand into your territory in mainland China.

 

[citis]

I was recently stunned to learn that the Great Wall of China is not as ancient as I once thought; in its modern form it only dates to the mid-1500's, with its earliest brick-and-mortar section (in the Ordos Loop region) completed in 1474. While an earlier 'Great Wall' did exist, they were often a string of mainly earthen walls, made of dirt and gravel. What 'real' fortifications existed were not so much a 'Great Wall' as they were a string of border forts or walled cities along the northern frontier.

I wonder if it might be a good idea to alter the effects of the Great Wall wonder in-game to better reflect this reality. The two possibilities would be to either move the tech prerequisite to much later in the game (to better reflect its modern construction) or to keep its current tech prerequisite and alter its immediate effects. This second one would be my preference -- I'm a big fan of playing as China, but I'm inclined to say the Great Wall is fairly overpowered, at least in the basic version 1.12.

Given its historical disrepair, it's hard to argue that the Great Wall did succeed in keeping all 'barbarians' out, though it had some use against invaders from the eastern steppes. I'd be inclined to add it as a combat modifier, maybe a generic +50% or more against all barbarian units. Or use it in conjunction with the Terracotta Army, and double the number of experience points (and hence Great General points) gained in combat with barbarians.

One of the Great Wall's more interesting (real-world) effects was when it was extended to the Jade Gate (Yumen Pass) to protect Chinese merchants travelling the Silk Road. I've never seen a proposal to use it in that context, as a boon to commerce rather than (or in addition) to defense. Perhaps it could function much like the Great Lighthouse by adding trade routes, or by permitting trade routes to form between you and independent cities, or by adding a bonus to existing land-based routes, or adding a bonus to the 'Silk Road' corporation, or even by allowing the Silk Road to expand into your territory in mainland China.

The effects of the great wall have changed at som time. Which effects do you know?

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, it sounds like you're still playing with the traditional "prevent barbarians from entering" effect.

I agree that the GW never really prevented barbarians from entering but instead served as an early warning system and a way to slow invaders down and impede their supply lines. This is true both for the still existing Ming-era walls as well as earlier ones that are not preserved.

This is why I kept the tech and changed the effect to the following:
- increases enemy movement costs for the territory inside the Great Wall by one
- barbarians take damage every turn they are inside the Great Walls, like the Russian UP

 

[sebzilla]

Does the Great Wall effect stack with Russia's UP? Could be interesting.

 

[Leoreth]

It would in case Russia manages to build the wall.

 

[Chep]

that seems rather unlikely, but they could conquer it before it obsoletes

 

[Leoreth]

That wouldn't help though, because the Russian UP is confined to the area around their core.

 

[Chep]

I know, but is the wall now also limited to the tiles the civ that builds it controls at the time it builds it? else conquering should give you the stacking bonus in the russian core and the simple wall-bonus outside. but I have to admit that I haven't played a game with the new wall, gave up on all of my China games before that point.

 

[Leoreth]

The effect of the Great Wall is literally limited to the tiles within the great wall graphic, i.e. the tiles you control when the wall is built.

 

[ales_]

- increases enemy movement costs for the territory inside the Great Wall by one

Another feature from Civilization V?

 

[Leoreth]

... no?

 

[Chep]

Leoreth, any thoughts on my suggestions concerning Fanaticism/Persecution?

(1. have Religions like Orthodoxy or Protestantism not spread to your Catholic cities when running Fanaticism or at least reduce it
2. change Persecution to the RFCE-way of doing it via a "National Unit" allowing you to influence the AI to persecute a bit
3. allow for more than 1 Persecution project at a time
4. allow fanatic civs to persecute upon city conquest)

 

[ales_]

... no?

Just a coincidence?