1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Team Game #2 - OCC Conquest only

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Fippy, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,970
    This was funny. Not very safe.

    Lincoln OCC-T243 settler danger.jpg
     
  2. jnebbe

    jnebbe Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2019
    Messages:
    71
    Gender:
    Male
    What does OCC mean?
     
  3. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,970
    Once City Challenge. We only have one city, and can't build settlers. Makes empire management a little easier, but harder to win via military means. Very hard to capitulate AIs due to lack of land and population.
     
  4. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,970
    If we were to try a new game like this, what would be good settings, or rather civ/leader combos?

    Spain is a strong civ in general, and altho I didn't follow this game from the beginning, it probably went really well with 'breaking out' with Conquistadors, and then transitioning over to very strong siege/cannons.

    Looking at traits, partly inspired by this game, I'm thinking Cyrus perhaps. Imperialistic + Charismatic means GGs are raining from the sky. Obviously the settler bonus is irrelevant.

    About civs, Germany is good for the late game, but doesn't offer anything until Tanks (the UB isn't very unique, and only has room for two more engineers). But if the game goes to the industrial era, those boosted tanks can be important.

    The Ottomans are strong in general. A nice universal unique unit, though the musket itself isn't all that strong in my experience. The timing is a bit wrong, and maybe even more so on Deity. The UB could be nice.

    Mongolia would be a little similar to this one, except specialised for mounted units. The Keshik isn't all that in fairness, though easier to move with, but the Ger offers +4XP, which coupled with Charismatic could prove fun (3 promos out of the gates).

    Having looked at that a bit quickly, think I'd be leaning towards Cyrus of Mongolia. Any thoughts?

    Also, what was the process on starting this game? In the first post there is something about having decided on this start, so maybe there was a different thread with discussion on different starts or scenarios?
     
  5. jnebbe

    jnebbe Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2019
    Messages:
    71
    Gender:
    Male
    Ah, I guess you can still capture ai cities though.

    I'm personally hoping for another cookbook soon :)
     
  6. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    Sweden
    Machineguns is another reason that I like Mil/Sci. (You take note @Fish Man ! :D )
    Too late after assembly line, but stocking up on some grenadiers earlier is nice as they can be upgraded to some really brutal defenders.

    Loaded up the Toku game to show these bad boys.
    Spoiler :

    If doing a double-detour through some melee unit (warrior/axe/sword/mace) -> grenadier -> Machinegun. They can also be outfitted with charge for that +25% against siege.
    But Tokus grenadiers that already start with combat+city garisson are absolutely crazy.
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG
     
  7. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    Sweden
    @Pangaea I'm no fan of unrestricted leaders (I'm very conservative and boring with game settings in general).
    Having just checked it out, I think SPI is of outmost importance in OCC, you are weak almost all the time and diplo is even more important than usual.

    So I would lean toward Brennus, Justinian, Monty or Saladin for a trait that aids with warfare abit.
     
  8. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,970
    Hmm, fair enough. Have read through this entire game over the last hours, and there were big problems with participation throughout. It has only taken 3 years to get to the later stages of the game :D Could that at least partially be down to the unorthodox settings? Personally I liked it. Nice for a change to not know the specifics of the AIs and therefore be more unsure about bribes and stuff like that. Instead of seeing Shaka and knowing to be super-careful, or Gandhi and knowing you can ignore everything he asks for. And everything in between. Fun to try to figure it out too, over time.

    However, if we were to start another team game like this, it's probably best to try to ensure participation so it doesn't take several years to complete.

    Of course, it could also be so simply as team games is hard to really get going. People seem to like to play their own saves throughout, which I believe we also saw in the recent Cookbook games. Hard to know. Could just be coincidences, real-life, etc. that meant people fell off at various times (including myself).

    And yes, Spiritual is definitely good for games like this.
     
  9. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,970
    Rolled some maps. Would these examples be overpowered, if there is such a thing for settings like this?
    Spoiler :
    Genghis Khan
    Spoiler :
    Genghis OCC map.jpg

    Justinian
    Spoiler :
    Err... :lol:

    Justinian OCC map.jpg

    Cyrus of Japan
    Spoiler :
    Cyrus of Japan OCC map.jpg


    All of them happen to have Imperialistic trait. Maybe a little funny while being limited to one city. But mostly because many GGs can be fun, and it can offer something a little different from the current game. River starts are strong in general of course, can build a levee too, and there is the open question of what to do with those forests. Chop down like in this game, or maybe go with forest preserves like in some of the OCC space games? Without such a strong breakout unit like a Conquistador, maybe we would need to wait longer? Samurais are pretty cool, though. Cataphracts too, but maybe less useful on Deity, at least in an OCC.
     
    Nick723 likes this.
  10. Nick723

    Nick723 Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2020
    Messages:
    130
    Gender:
    Male
    I think it’s perfectly fair to have a ‘strong’ start, you only get one city and it’s not much fun if you have a rubbish one!

    I think of these starts, the Genghis one would be my favourite, but even that I don’t think is ‘that’ good? I don’t value gold that highly in OCC, as it competes with running a scientist. I more highly value the high food starts, although having stone is possibly the most important single resource.

    Regarding the uniques, I agree that you’d struggle to be efficient enough with any of them. With these leaders though - probably good to manufacture an early defensive war to rack up the great generals for the breakout later. Or is that madness?
     
  11. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    Sweden
    You could check out the Justinian game I tried out.
    I tried it to learn the ropes and went for space, but for conquest, perhaps going for those fancy knights might be doable?
     

    Attached Files:

  12. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,195
    Location:
    Cantaloupe Island
    None of these starts seem excessive in any frame of mind. The Genghis start is the better one but still lacking a lot.
    IND leader, Stone, Marble, 3H city tile, forest spam and 10+ food surplus would make for a real powered start.
    If you can guarantee stone and marble, PHI is the better trait. Barring that, IND it is, by and far.

    Took me about 5 minutes to roll this start, which is way stronger than any of your shots :
    Spoiler :




    Basic strat is to follow-up with Aesth (better Oracled but not here), Litterature and beeline Rifles and Infantry.
    March promotion Infantries conquer the world (heal while moving).
    Wonderspam guarantees 1 unit per turn.
     
  13. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,752
    Gender:
    Female
    All sounds good Pangaea, want to continue until Stalin has been sorted out?
    I should have more time again in a couple days.

    I would keep the transports for now.
     
  14. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,970
    Sure, I can play a bit further. Depends a little on what happens with Brennus, if for instance he caps Stalin once Mutal has been taken, and we need to re-evaluate our options (DOW Brennus asap?).

    Think I'll send the destroyer+transports back home then. With war on Brennus looming, and he having a million destroyers now, probably better to have them there. Perhaps the first-strike promos was a mistake, at least in hindsight, but I figured it was nice to farm frigates with (Sury had a bunch).

    Will look things over in-game again, but think you are correct that it's best to heal up for a turn now. There has been a lot of combat lately, so many units are wounded. See if I can pillage something too. Then will follow your advice on Sury and let him do something else than complete Biology.
     
  15. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,970
    That one looks nice, although not overpowered. PH with sea access can be nice in conquest -- just in case it's needed. Can build a harbour too. And upon settling I see we'll get access to spice and rice. Tundra is a little disheartening, but maybe you claimed Fur or silver or something?

    I don't know what else was around in the images I posted above, because I want to play myself, so map knowledge is a big no-no. Getting stone would be important for Mids, because that is a huge wonder in OCC. Marble is nice, but not very important imo. Especially if IND. Chopping out Mids on Deity without stone probably isn't very reliable.
     
  16. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    Sweden
    I did a fair bit of reloading and replaying on that map. But I did manage to win space there without pyramids. I think I did get GLib in the final try, but it could have been some earlier. Other than that I didn't go for any wonders.

    Early cottages and burocracy was good enough. Can't remember if I did lib on nationalism or constitution, but I went there that way to get rep somewhat early.
    Perhaps it's an established "truth" that you more or less need pyramids to win OCC, and that concept havnen't been questioned enough?

    Maybe it's different if going for conquest though.. Can't rely on towns as much as they get pillaged, and there is also less time to get the settled specialists.
     
  17. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,970
    Yes, that didn't take long. Only got two turns in.
    Airship saw that destroyers had removed the culture, so Brennus would attack into T252, and of course take it. His forces are huge compared with Stalin's pretty sizeable stack of 11 rifles in Mutal. The city falls and Stalin caps. Sadly I didn't have enough attackers to take Stalin's SW city in T251, though I kinda doubt it would have been enough to cap Stalin anyway.

    Brennus' power actually went up between turns, so he can't have lost much (probably more destroyer upgrades too).

    An attempt of a situation update, though I advice to check out the save as well.
    Spoiler :
    We build West Point with the Great Engineer.

    Lincoln OCC-T250 West Point.jpg

    Lots of overflow next turn, so I make an Artillery. Then the idea is to build a few MGs. The city overview still listing 5XP from Citadel is confusing, but the reality is they will come out with 19XP now. That is one short of another promotion. If we get another GG (and the game isn't practically over), I'd recommend to settle another one, so we get level 5 units directly.

    Our units heal up. First for one turn, then another. Because I know Brennus will take that city and Stalin probably cap, I figured it was better to heal up almost all the guys going into T252, in case we get a chance to slam into Brennus then.

    Pretty solid defense inside Mutal, but nothing compared with Brennus' 40-50 units around.
    Lincoln OCC-T251 Mutal defense.jpg

    On a sidenote, it was kinda funny to read the thread from the start, and see that Brennus was a total non-entity for a long time. Now he is by far the strongest AI left. Our earlier wars meant he was able to get a lot more land, and grow and tech over time. Shows how drastically things can change with these unique settings.

    This is a little chaotic, but bear with me. Combined he has a load of units around, but most are not inside the city yet.
    Lincoln OCC-T252 Situation report.jpg

    Ideally I'd like to attack NOW. Partly because this settler worries me a little. If he settles in the 'wrong' spot, it could mess us up a bit if declaring next turn?

    Lincoln OCC-T252 Stalin settler.jpg

    These are our two stacks. Plus some units further west that got booted out before being able to capture+raze Calakmul (lost a cannon there at 49%, but the others survived at 85-ish percent)

    Lincoln OCC-T252 Northern stack.jpg

    Lincoln OCC-T252 Southern stack.jpg

    We do have 6 workers in the region, so should be able to move the southern stack up to join the northern stack, or also on the windmill SW of Mutal. Possibly also to directly attack this turn, though I'm less sure about that. Nor how wise that will be given the spread out stacks, and a bunch of his rifles on that hill.

    Maybe move everybody to that hill SW of the city? That should be okay no matter where Stalin settles, as he can't do it on the coast 1S of the destroyers (2 tiles from the city) and thereby throw us out. All units won't come into the city, as the AI as usual unwisely ruined the road they were standing on 1S of the lake. But presumably most will arrive in the city next turn with the intent of healing up.

    I've put a turn into Electricity btw, thinking we can perhaps grab it for RepParts + Steel with Sury later. He won't do it now, and gold is running out, so that's a situation I'm a little concerned about. May be thrown into strike here, because we simply can't pay for it all, even if building Wealth with 0% slider. Since Mutal has just been taken, we'll get next to nothing there, but the other Mayan cities should be okay. Brennus' core is far away, but we will be able to move up there pretty quickly thanks to railroads.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,970
    Hmmm. Couldn't help myself. The prospect of smashing big stacks is too much fun. Railroaded some tiles and moved everybody to the hill. Shall we play? :mischief:

    Lincoln OCC-T253 Brennus forces.jpg

    In the, err, other similarly-coloured corner:
    Lincoln OCC-T253 Our forces.jpg
     
    Fippy likes this.
  19. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,970
    Frustrating start.

    (As usual I forgot to attack with the airship first, altho here we only have one, so not a big factor thankfully)

    Lincoln OCC-T253 Two cannons RNGed in the ass.jpg

    Things went well after that, though, and the 93% Cavalry survived on the 1S of lake stack, where there were some fully health rifles. Didn't fancy throwing cannons to the wind there, at 31% odds. Captured some workers too (including the previously shown settler party), and then deleted them, to move the half-dead infantry to safety. Last attack was with a Cavalry, so he can move back onto the hill for protection.

    Lincoln OCC-T253 Combat log1.jpg
    Lincoln OCC-T253 Combat log2.jpg

    Forgot to check beforehand, but a turn or two ago Brennus' army strength was 3.1 million. Therefore he lost at least 600 000.

    Lincoln OCC-T253 Demos.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
    Fippy likes this.
  20. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,752
    Gender:
    Female
    Impressive massacre :goodjob:
    I would say we have to get everybody north/east quickly now, and ignore Stalin.
    Gold starts looking dire for sure, maybe we should build an Infantry with 273h (Engi + all workshops) so we increase overflow even more, and can 1t a Bank at some point?
    Would be valuable at 0% slider.
     
    Pangaea likes this.

Share This Page