Team Game #2 - OCC Conquest only

[krikav]

Machineguns is another reason that I like Mil/Sci. (You take note @Fish Man ! )
Too late after assembly line, but stocking up on some grenadiers earlier is nice as they can be upgraded to some really brutal defenders.

Loaded up the Toku game to show these bad boys.

Spoiler :

If doing a double-detour through some melee unit (warrior/axe/sword/mace) -> grenadier -> Machinegun. They can also be outfitted with charge for that +25% against siege.
But Tokus grenadiers that already start with combat+city garisson are absolutely crazy.

 

[krikav]

@Pangaea I'm no fan of unrestricted leaders (I'm very conservative and boring with game settings in general).
Having just checked it out, I think SPI is of outmost importance in OCC, you are weak almost all the time and diplo is even more important than usual.

So I would lean toward Brennus, Justinian, Monty or Saladin for a trait that aids with warfare abit.

 

[Pangaea]

@Pangaea I'm no fan of unrestricted leaders (I'm very conservative and boring with game settings in general).
Having just checked it out, I think SPI is of outmost importance in OCC, you are weak almost all the time and diplo is even more important than usual.

So I would lean toward Brennus, Justinian, Monty or Saladin for a trait that aids with warfare abit.

Hmm, fair enough. Have read through this entire game over the last hours, and there were big problems with participation throughout. It has only taken 3 years to get to the later stages of the game Could that at least partially be down to the unorthodox settings? Personally I liked it. Nice for a change to not know the specifics of the AIs and therefore be more unsure about bribes and stuff like that. Instead of seeing Shaka and knowing to be super-careful, or Gandhi and knowing you can ignore everything he asks for. And everything in between. Fun to try to figure it out too, over time.

However, if we were to start another team game like this, it's probably best to try to ensure participation so it doesn't take several years to complete.

Of course, it could also be so simply as team games is hard to really get going. People seem to like to play their own saves throughout, which I believe we also saw in the recent Cookbook games. Hard to know. Could just be coincidences, real-life, etc. that meant people fell off at various times (including myself).

And yes, Spiritual is definitely good for games like this.

 

[Pangaea]

Rolled some maps. Would these examples be overpowered, if there is such a thing for settings like this?

Spoiler :

Genghis Khan

Spoiler :

Justinian

Spoiler :

Err...

Cyrus of Japan

Spoiler :

All of them happen to have Imperialistic trait. Maybe a little funny while being limited to one city. But mostly because many GGs can be fun, and it can offer something a little different from the current game. River starts are strong in general of course, can build a levee too, and there is the open question of what to do with those forests. Chop down like in this game, or maybe go with forest preserves like in some of the OCC space games? Without such a strong breakout unit like a Conquistador, maybe we would need to wait longer? Samurais are pretty cool, though. Cataphracts too, but maybe less useful on Deity, at least in an OCC.

 

[Nick723]

I think it’s perfectly fair to have a ‘strong’ start, you only get one city and it’s not much fun if you have a rubbish one!

I think of these starts, the Genghis one would be my favourite, but even that I don’t think is ‘that’ good? I don’t value gold that highly in OCC, as it competes with running a scientist. I more highly value the high food starts, although having stone is possibly the most important single resource.

Regarding the uniques, I agree that you’d struggle to be efficient enough with any of them. With these leaders though - probably good to manufacture an early defensive war to rack up the great generals for the breakout later. Or is that madness?

 

[krikav]

You could check out the Justinian game I tried out.
I tried it to learn the ropes and went for space, but for conquest, perhaps going for those fancy knights might be doable?

 

[Fippy]

All sounds good Pangaea, want to continue until Stalin has been sorted out?
I should have more time again in a couple days.

I would keep the transports for now.

 

[Pangaea]

All sounds good Pangaea, want to continue until Stalin has been sorted out?

Sure, I can play a bit further. Depends a little on what happens with Brennus, if for instance he caps Stalin once Mutal has been taken, and we need to re-evaluate our options (DOW Brennus asap?).

Think I'll send the destroyer+transports back home then. With war on Brennus looming, and he having a million destroyers now, probably better to have them there. Perhaps the first-strike promos was a mistake, at least in hindsight, but I figured it was nice to farm frigates with (Sury had a bunch).

Will look things over in-game again, but think you are correct that it's best to heal up for a turn now. There has been a lot of combat lately, so many units are wounded. See if I can pillage something too. Then will follow your advice on Sury and let him do something else than complete Biology.

 

[Pangaea]

You could check out the Justinian game I tried out.

That one looks nice, although not overpowered. PH with sea access can be nice in conquest -- just in case it's needed. Can build a harbour too. And upon settling I see we'll get access to spice and rice. Tundra is a little disheartening, but maybe you claimed Fur or silver or something?

I don't know what else was around in the images I posted above, because I want to play myself, so map knowledge is a big no-no. Getting stone would be important for Mids, because that is a huge wonder in OCC. Marble is nice, but not very important imo. Especially if IND. Chopping out Mids on Deity without stone probably isn't very reliable.

 

[krikav]

I did a fair bit of reloading and replaying on that map. But I did manage to win space there without pyramids. I think I did get GLib in the final try, but it could have been some earlier. Other than that I didn't go for any wonders.

Early cottages and burocracy was good enough. Can't remember if I did lib on nationalism or constitution, but I went there that way to get rep somewhat early.
Perhaps it's an established "truth" that you more or less need pyramids to win OCC, and that concept havnen't been questioned enough?

Maybe it's different if going for conquest though.. Can't rely on towns as much as they get pillaged, and there is also less time to get the settled specialists.

 

[Pangaea]

Yes, that didn't take long. Only got two turns in.
Airship saw that destroyers had removed the culture, so Brennus would attack into T252, and of course take it. His forces are huge compared with Stalin's pretty sizeable stack of 11 rifles in Mutal. The city falls and Stalin caps. Sadly I didn't have enough attackers to take Stalin's SW city in T251, though I kinda doubt it would have been enough to cap Stalin anyway.

Brennus' power actually went up between turns, so he can't have lost much (probably more destroyer upgrades too).

An attempt of a situation update, though I advice to check out the save as well.

Spoiler :

We build West Point with the Great Engineer.

Lots of overflow next turn, so I make an Artillery. Then the idea is to build a few MGs. The city overview still listing 5XP from Citadel is confusing, but the reality is they will come out with 19XP now. That is one short of another promotion. If we get another GG (and the game isn't practically over), I'd recommend to settle another one, so we get level 5 units directly.

Our units heal up. First for one turn, then another. Because I know Brennus will take that city and Stalin probably cap, I figured it was better to heal up almost all the guys going into T252, in case we get a chance to slam into Brennus then.

Pretty solid defense inside Mutal, but nothing compared with Brennus' 40-50 units around.

On a sidenote, it was kinda funny to read the thread from the start, and see that Brennus was a total non-entity for a long time. Now he is by far the strongest AI left. Our earlier wars meant he was able to get a lot more land, and grow and tech over time. Shows how drastically things can change with these unique settings.

This is a little chaotic, but bear with me. Combined he has a load of units around, but most are not inside the city yet.

Ideally I'd like to attack NOW. Partly because this settler worries me a little. If he settles in the 'wrong' spot, it could mess us up a bit if declaring next turn?

These are our two stacks. Plus some units further west that got booted out before being able to capture+raze Calakmul (lost a cannon there at 49%, but the others survived at 85-ish percent)

We do have 6 workers in the region, so should be able to move the southern stack up to join the northern stack, or also on the windmill SW of Mutal. Possibly also to directly attack this turn, though I'm less sure about that. Nor how wise that will be given the spread out stacks, and a bunch of his rifles on that hill.

Maybe move everybody to that hill SW of the city? That should be okay no matter where Stalin settles, as he can't do it on the coast 1S of the destroyers (2 tiles from the city) and thereby throw us out. All units won't come into the city, as the AI as usual unwisely ruined the road they were standing on 1S of the lake. But presumably most will arrive in the city next turn with the intent of healing up.

I've put a turn into Electricity btw, thinking we can perhaps grab it for RepParts + Steel with Sury later. He won't do it now, and gold is running out, so that's a situation I'm a little concerned about. May be thrown into strike here, because we simply can't pay for it all, even if building Wealth with 0% slider. Since Mutal has just been taken, we'll get next to nothing there, but the other Mayan cities should be okay. Brennus' core is far away, but we will be able to move up there pretty quickly thanks to railroads.

 

[Pangaea]

Hmmm. Couldn't help myself. The prospect of smashing big stacks is too much fun. Railroaded some tiles and moved everybody to the hill. Shall we play?

In the, err, other similarly-coloured corner:

 

[Pangaea]

Frustrating start.

(As usual I forgot to attack with the airship first, altho here we only have one, so not a big factor thankfully)

Things went well after that, though, and the 93% Cavalry survived on the 1S of lake stack, where there were some fully health rifles. Didn't fancy throwing cannons to the wind there, at 31% odds. Captured some workers too (including the previously shown settler party), and then deleted them, to move the half-dead infantry to safety. Last attack was with a Cavalry, so he can move back onto the hill for protection.

Forgot to check beforehand, but a turn or two ago Brennus' army strength was 3.1 million. Therefore he lost at least 600 000.

 

[Fippy]

Impressive massacre
I would say we have to get everybody north/east quickly now, and ignore Stalin.
Gold starts looking dire for sure, maybe we should build an Infantry with 273h (Engi + all workshops) so we increase overflow even more, and can 1t a Bank at some point?
Would be valuable at 0% slider.

 

[krikav]

Very nitpicky, but I would have moved the doomstack 1S of Mutal prior to the massacre, that way I have only one stack with possibly half-wounded units to guard afterwards.

@Pangea I'm impressed at your attention to power rating. I'm mostly oblivious to that in my games. Will try to incorporate that more into my own games!

 

[Pangaea]

Yes, that is a good point (both). Stalin will expand quickly into the free land, but better to get the army up to the core of Brennus and deal with him. He's the main threat (though I feel we are in a winning position). Also, if we deal with Stalin now, we will have to wipe him out. Don't think a vassal breaks free in a situation like this, while we keep reducing it in size.

True about the bank too. If we need to resort to 0% slider, a bank will definitely come in handy. We're bleeding pretty badly right now economically. Who knew a giant army costs a bob with only one city

At some point, maybe we can move part of the army back down again, and deal with Stalin before he has expanded too rashly.

From scouting trips with the airship, I'm not seeing a lot of Brennus units in his land, so it's possible he needs some time to put together a real stack again. We may be able to do a lot more damage to him if we move quickly and then invade his core. Cathy has a decent lot of Cuirs on our border as well, but kinda doubt she'll dogpile (but maybe?). An MG or two back home may be handy, just in case.

edit: xposted with krikav, but that is a good point. Didn't think about that at the time. Suppose i felt safe with such a giant army. Can't imagine it to be an issue here, as Stalin is broken, but good to keep in mind for later or other games.

 

[Pangaea]

Did the game die again?

 

[Fippy]

Covered in work atm :-/
I will play sometime next week if nobody else did until then, hf if you do (no pressure)

 

[Pangaea]

Did think about picking this up again, but then I'm not sure how to solve the money situation, so I kinda hoped you would be able to do something that I hadn't thought about. I've also struggled to get some Deity games of my own going, as it's a level I have struggled with.

Then thought about playing this again yesterday. However, after looking up info about the game "Hollow Knight" for a week or two, I decided to buy it yesterday when it was on sale on GOG. Therefore I'd like to put some more time into that. I probably need a bit of a break from Civilization 4 anyway. Have played it a stupid amount these last months. Will keep an eye on this thread and the forum, and if nobody else does, continue with this save once you have played a set. Feels like I've played quite a bit lately, so that weighed on my mind a bit too.

 

[Fippy]

On a break too probably, too much work and looking at relaxed adventure games for the evenings.
We will not let this thread die thou
It's always open for everybody who feels like trying something different.