Team Game #2 - OCC Conquest only
- Thread starter Fippy
- Start date
Tonny
King
I'll play some tonight after work.
Tonny
King
Played until t90 625BC
Overview
t84 halted growth to run 2 scientists
t85 Brennus declares war on Catherine
t86 Brennus asks us to join the war against Catherine... No... -2 diplo
t86 Aesthetics researched
t86 1 BFC chop into HG
t87 Colossus has been built far away
t88 Catherine has a Great General
t89 Hatty has a GS
t89 Hatty becomes Jewish
t89 Hinduism in Madrid due to Missionary Genghis
t89 Catherine and Hatty make peace
t89 Fishy fishy fishy
t90 Both Hanging Gardens and Literature ready
Overview
t84 halted growth to run 2 scientists
t85 Brennus declares war on Catherine
t86 Brennus asks us to join the war against Catherine... No... -2 diplo
t86 Aesthetics researched
t86 1 BFC chop into HG
t87 Colossus has been built far away
t88 Catherine has a Great General
t89 Hatty has a GS
t89 Hatty becomes Jewish
t89 Hinduism in Madrid due to Missionary Genghis
t89 Catherine and Hatty make peace
t89 Fishy fishy fishy
t90 Both Hanging Gardens and Literature ready
Micro: coast -> forest now that we need production. Keep the 2 scientists until the great person pops? Or just work more forests to speed up TGL? We shave 3 turns off TGL which is worth 6 scientist turns, but later. On the other hand, running scientists gives us the GP earlier and the settled GP also helps production a bit.
Workers: I think chopping is now more important than getting the pig? We're healthy anyway.
Research: Music makes good trade bait and the free great artist is nice.
It would be nice to get some religions spreading, so that we can get monasteries at some point.
Workers: I think chopping is now more important than getting the pig? We're healthy anyway.
Research: Music makes good trade bait and the free great artist is nice.
It would be nice to get some religions spreading, so that we can get monasteries at some point.
Tonny
King
Going for max hammers and taking all scientists away will only result in a 4 turn faster build of the GLib. 15 turns vs 19 turns. You will lose 30 scientists over the course of 15 turns and gain only 8 over the course of 4 turns. Total loss of 22 
scientists!!! Multiply that with 6
/scientist and you'll lose 132. Add to that the loss of 2
/turn of the ocean square it becomes (15*2*1.75=52,5) a total of 184,5.
I haven't even taken into account the loss of GP production and earlier settled GP's.
Besides... what would you want to build after the GLib?
I believe that going for CS makes more sense than going for Music now. The AI aren't anywhere near towards teching Music. I'd like to have the 50% bonuses of Bureacracy asap.
scientists!!! Multiply that with 6/scientist and you'll lose 132. Add to that the loss of 2/turn of the ocean square it becomes (15*2*1.75=52,5) a total of 184,5.I haven't even taken into account the loss of GP production and earlier settled GP's.
Besides... what would you want to build after the GLib?
We'll have enough time to prechop the remaining forests with 2 workers. I went for the Pig to use it as trade in the future.
I believe that going for CS makes more sense than going for Music now. The AI aren't anywhere near towards teching Music. I'd like to have the 50% bonuses of Bureacracy asap.
Did you know that if you select a city and then go to the tech screen, it will show you how long it will take that city to build a building/wonder when you hover over the wonder!?!
Anyway, yes, you are right about the city management. Grassland forests are really unimpressive tiles. Would it be worth it to work a grassland farm instead of the coast? 1f vs 2c, slowly growing hoping to pick up some extra happiness in the near future? (I really dislike working 2f2c coast
)
Confucianism hasn't been founded by the way.
We're probably get people demanding Aesthetics, refuse?
What's the view on National Epic? Since we're philosophical, the bonus is a lot less important and the great artist points are a bit inconvenient.
Anyway, yes, you are right about the city management. Grassland forests are really unimpressive tiles. Would it be worth it to work a grassland farm instead of the coast? 1f vs 2c, slowly growing hoping to pick up some extra happiness in the near future? (I really dislike working 2f2c coast
)Confucianism hasn't been founded by the way.
We're probably get people demanding Aesthetics, refuse?
What's the view on National Epic? Since we're philosophical, the bonus is a lot less important and the great artist points are a bit inconvenient.
Tonny
King
No, I didn't know. Thanks for the tip!
This could be done indeed. It's a matter of taste. I value commerce more than food at the moment.Would it be worth it to work a grassland farm instead of the coast? 1f vs 2c, slowly growing hoping to pick up some extra happiness in the near future? (I really dislike working 2f2c coast
I'm not sure what to do with NE. If we had marble, then YES. But without it I don't like building it. Probably we'll have enough time to build it anyway before we get to University and Oxford. It all depends on how many religions we'll get for monasteries. We also want to build Theatre and Globe (do we selftech Drama?).
Yes, for buildings it is really a question when religions start spreading.
University of Sankore is not a horrible build with stone, it gives +2 great scientist points and some extra science if we adopt a religion. With a tech path Priesthood -> Code of Laws -> Civil Service -> Paper - Education, Sankore can be built while Education is researched.
I'm going to be away for a few more days, so I can't play. I think it is reasonable to play a turnset until the completion of the Great Library, researching towards Civil Service. Then we probably have to think about what to do with our build.
University of Sankore is not a horrible build with stone, it gives +2 great scientist points and some extra science if we adopt a religion. With a tech path Priesthood -> Code of Laws -> Civil Service -> Paper - Education, Sankore can be built while Education is researched.
I'm going to be away for a few more days, so I can't play. I think it is reasonable to play a turnset until the completion of the Great Library, researching towards Civil Service. Then we probably have to think about what to do with our build.
Tonny
King
Agree with Sankore after GLib and also agree with techpath.
Only thing that is not certain is city micro. I could play the next set and I would go for max commerce as explained before.
Only thing that is not certain is city micro. I could play the next set and I would go for max commerce as explained before.
Tonny
King
I just came to the conclusion...
Revolt to Hinduism... Grow to size 12 asap... Then use 2!!! coasts while running 2 scientists.
Helps with diplo and commerce in the future.
Revolt to Hinduism... Grow to size 12 asap... Then use 2!!! coasts while running 2 scientists.
Helps with diplo and commerce in the future.
(Except for the great merchant points)
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
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- 15,017
Jumping in here again,
can play later unless somebody else was making plans already
Okay so, diplo..
Hatshy worries me a little, now she has 10t peace with her worst enemy and could start plotting on us (border tension).
Will not give gems at cautious, some warmongers do that (can remember Rags and Shaka i.e.).
Some counter measures, we should give her stone to speed up resi +diplo.
Should also trade for Alpha from Cathy (hopefully no diplo hit, fair trade), then we have techs she can demand (or gifting if red fist appears).
Next tech, clearly CoL imo.
Unlocks Philo bulb too, which we want for Paci. I would also keep scientists now until the next gp, increasing chance on GS for that bulb.
We can grow afterwards imo.
Fine with switching into Hindu (needed for Paci later anyways), Hatshy gives no -diplo for relis while we will be on our way to friendly with Genghis.
I saw that Genghis techs Aest (will not give Mono + Med, he normally should),
we should keep an eye on that and get Med before he gathers too many beakers later.
Taking PH makes little sense for ~20 beakers, bad for we fear you are becoming too advanced.
Missing AI culture here, and one of our scouting warriors close
can play later unless somebody else was making plans already
Okay so, diplo..
Hatshy worries me a little, now she has 10t peace with her worst enemy and could start plotting on us (border tension).
Will not give gems at cautious, some warmongers do that (can remember Rags and Shaka i.e.).
Some counter measures, we should give her stone to speed up resi +diplo.
Should also trade for Alpha from Cathy (hopefully no diplo hit, fair trade), then we have techs she can demand (or gifting if red fist appears).
Next tech, clearly CoL imo.
Unlocks Philo bulb too, which we want for Paci. I would also keep scientists now until the next gp, increasing chance on GS for that bulb.
We can grow afterwards imo.
Fine with switching into Hindu (needed for Paci later anyways), Hatshy gives no -diplo for relis while we will be on our way to friendly with Genghis.
I saw that Genghis techs Aest (will not give Mono + Med, he normally should),
we should keep an eye on that and get Med before he gathers too many beakers later.
Taking PH makes little sense for ~20 beakers, bad for we fear you are becoming too advanced.
Missing AI culture here, and one of our scouting warriors close
Spoiler :
Attachments
Tonny
King
Nice to see you back again @Fippy
I'm terrible at deity diplo (this is my first deity game ever), so your input was essential for me to play a few turns without ruining this game.
Took a look at the foreign advisor. The last AI is Stalin because Hatty is his worst enemy.
Will play a few turns now.
To do:
Get Alpha from Cathy
Give Stone to Hatty
Watch Genghis for Meditation trade
Scout Stalin lands
Pop GP, then grow
Switch to Hinduism
Selftech PH and going for CoL
Building Great Library
I'm terrible at deity diplo (this is my first deity game ever), so your input was essential for me to play a few turns without ruining this game.
Took a look at the foreign advisor. The last AI is Stalin because Hatty is his worst enemy.
Spoiler :
Will play a few turns now.
To do:
Get Alpha from Cathy
Give Stone to Hatty
Watch Genghis for Meditation trade
Scout Stalin lands
Pop GP, then grow
Switch to Hinduism
Selftech PH and going for CoL
Building Great Library
Tonny
King
Played again very few turns until we meet Stalin. At turn 93 now and have decisions to make.
What happened:
t90
Traded Aesthetics and Polytheism for Alphabet with Cathy
Giving Stone to Hatty
Switching to Hinduism (1 turn of Anarchy)
t91
Priesthood teched due to overflow
Hatty asks to cancel deals with Cathy... No... -1 diplo hit (still at cautious)
t92
Cathy won't trade Meditation anymore. I guess she's going for Shwegadon Paya.
Meditation trade with Genghis is of the table. He's too far into Aesthetics. On the bright side we still have Sury who is still willing to trade Meditation, Monotheism and Hunting for Aesthetics.
t93
Stalin of Maya empire found. He's the worst enemy of Sury. He's the only AI who hasn't Math, but has Monarchy.
I stopped for a new discussion about trades and diplo.
This is one possible/attractive option
What happened:
t90
Traded Aesthetics and Polytheism for Alphabet with Cathy
Giving Stone to Hatty
Switching to Hinduism (1 turn of Anarchy)
t91
Priesthood teched due to overflow
Hatty asks to cancel deals with Cathy... No... -1 diplo hit (still at cautious)
t92
Cathy won't trade Meditation anymore. I guess she's going for Shwegadon Paya.
Meditation trade with Genghis is of the table. He's too far into Aesthetics. On the bright side we still have Sury who is still willing to trade Meditation, Monotheism and Hunting for Aesthetics.
t93
Stalin of Maya empire found. He's the worst enemy of Sury. He's the only AI who hasn't Math, but has Monarchy.
I stopped for a new discussion about trades and diplo.
This is one possible/attractive option
Spoiler :
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
- Messages
- 15,017
Agree with Stalin trade, everyone else has maths and getting a bigger tech like Mona for Aest..nice.Hunting we should avoid for now.
Hatshy no Myst yet lol (but construction), yup typical warmonger..
her plotting would ring all alarm bells for us.
Cathy will give Jumbos & horsies, signs of a peaceful AI so that fits their hate on each other.
No open borders with Stalin for now imo, we would rather not get asked by Sury to cancel (potential friendly Hindu AI).
If Sury gives Construction next turn for Mona + Aest, nice trade?
I was wondering, what will we plan for our forests?
Glib has high value, are there big projects we need them (all) for later, or can we use a couple?
Tonny
King
These are the things I didn't know about AI behavior. This will help me a lot in other games too.
Thought about that too. Agree
I haven't given this any considerations until now. I think it depends. Do we want to get our "conquest" tech fast, then we should use it for science wonders. Do we want them to get our army fast when we reach our conquest tech, then we should use them for that. I honestly still don't know.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
- Messages
- 15,017
From my experience, well built occ cities can 1-turn 100h units with HE. Or very close
Probably needs guilds thou for better workshops, no mines for us (cept gold).
With forge + HE + Bur we need hmm..good question, maybe ~35 base hammers for Conqs?
Currently we have 19, not bad already.
For HE we need Theo + Vass + Stables, unless i miss another possibility for an 8xp unlocking unit?
Last time i was SPI, 1 golden age could be useful for switching Civics around there (and i think we actually would not mind 1 GP like Artist from NE for that).
Overall i think we can use forests for those (national) wonders rather than units,
if our aim is 1 turning them anyways later.
Probably needs guilds thou for better workshops, no mines for us (cept gold).
With forge + HE + Bur we need hmm..good question, maybe ~35 base hammers for Conqs?
Currently we have 19, not bad already.
For HE we need Theo + Vass + Stables, unless i miss another possibility for an 8xp unlocking unit?
Last time i was SPI, 1 golden age could be useful for switching Civics around there (and i think we actually would not mind 1 GP like Artist from NE for that).
Overall i think we can use forests for those (national) wonders rather than units,
if our aim is 1 turning them anyways later.
Tonny
King
Just writing... for overall overview...
When we have stables (2xp) + barracks (3xp) + vassalage (2xp) + theocracy (2xp) we'll have 9 xp conquistadors out of the gate.
We can't have vassalage and bureaucracy at the same time. So I would go for police state (+25% military production) + state property (+10%
) + HE (+100% military production) + Forge (+25%). A total of 160% bonus. We need 39 base for 1 turning the conqs.
At the moment we have 19 base. Where do we find 20? 7 grassland workshops give 21 (with guilds + chemistry). Then we need to grow to size 13 for the needed production. Settled GP's aren't taken into account. Especially when we want to bulb our way to conqs with GS's. Even a GE could bulb Metal Casting at the moment.
Happy cap will be:
Palace +1
Monument +1
Gold +1
Silk +1 (optional)
Forge +1 (Gold)
Religion +1
"We just enjoy life" +4 (difficulty level)
"Oh Yeah" +1 (Charismatic)
Hindu Temple +1
That's a total of 12
Add to that: Confu Temple, Tao Temple and Colosseum we'll have a total of 15. So no problem here.
We can skip Globe Theatre and Drama.
What techs are still needed?
CoL (selftech), Philosophy (bulb), Meditation (trade), Monotheism (trade), HBR, Metal Casting, Music (free Great Artist?), Calendar (trade), Monarchy (trade), Feudalism, Machinery, Civil Service, Guilds, Construction (trade), Engineering, Theology, Gunpowder, Chemistry, and Military Tradition.
Optional: Paper, Education, Liberalism. (Bulb path)
Let's turn those forests into Wonders and Buildings!!!
What do we need to build?
Great Library (350)
Forge (120)
Temples (80 each)
HE (200)
Stable (60)
Optional:
Monasteries (60 each)
Colosseum (80)
NE (250)
Sankore (550 dps Stone)
University (200)
Oxford (400 dps Stone)
Moai (250 dps Stone)
West Point (800 dps Stone)
When we have stables (2xp) + barracks (3xp) + vassalage (2xp) + theocracy (2xp) we'll have 9 xp conquistadors out of the gate.
We can't have vassalage and bureaucracy at the same time. So I would go for police state (+25% military production) + state property (+10%
) + HE (+100% military production) + Forge (+25%). A total of 160% bonus. We need 39 base for 1 turning the conqs.At the moment we have 19 base
. Where do we find 20? 7 grassland workshops give 21 (with guilds + chemistry). Then we need to grow to size 13 for the needed production. Settled GP's aren't taken into account. Especially when we want to bulb our way to conqs with GS's. Even a GE could bulb Metal Casting at the moment.Happy cap will be:
Palace +1
Monument +1
Gold +1
Silk +1
(optional)Forge +1
(Gold)Religion +1
"We just enjoy life" +4
(difficulty level)"Oh Yeah" +1
(Charismatic)Hindu Temple +1
That's a total of 12
Add to that: Confu Temple, Tao Temple and Colosseum we'll have a total of 15
. So no problem here.We can skip Globe Theatre and Drama.
What techs are still needed?
CoL (selftech), Philosophy (bulb), Meditation (trade), Monotheism (trade), HBR, Metal Casting, Music (free Great Artist?), Calendar (trade), Monarchy (trade), Feudalism, Machinery, Civil Service, Guilds, Construction (trade), Engineering, Theology, Gunpowder, Chemistry, and Military Tradition.
Optional: Paper, Education, Liberalism. (Bulb path)
Let's turn those forests into Wonders and Buildings!!!
What do we need to build?
Great Library (350
)Forge (120
)Temples (80
each)HE (200
)Stable (60
)Optional:
Monasteries (60
each)Colosseum (80
)NE (250
)Sankore (550
dps Stone)University (200
)Oxford (400
dps Stone)Moai (250
dps Stone)West Point (800
dps Stone)