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Technological/Education Property

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Azurian, Oct 4, 2013.

  1. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    I don't think that elementary school would give any :science: since nobody is doing research there (correct me if I'm wrong). But then the Storyteller's Hut and many Myths won't give any :science: either...
     
  2. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Myths were designed to provide/simulate the late stone age creative boost. Which means they still should provide :science: during that phase of the game but I see no problem in having the :science: be replaced with education later.

    Btw I am experimenting with building the myths based on contact with the animals ie combat and not by the animals.
     
  3. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

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    Yes! Some buildings that provided science will now exclusively provide education. Technically what we keep calling science is called Research in the game officially.

    This is the general rule of thumb.

    Education is Learning/Teaching .

    It's about spreading around common knowledge that has already been discovered to your people. (spread)

    Science is Research/Inventions .

    It's about mastering known knowledge and using it to discovering new scientific branches and researching new thing aka creating new knowledge. It's also about how the world works and new technology designs . (source/creation )

    Schools /Learning = Education, generate education points, ( 1/100th of hammers (cost).
    People : Kids, Teachers, Parents, Tutors, Educators

    Ex.
    Elementary School (100 percent education)

    Labs/Research/Inventions = Science , and require Education points (1/5th of Hammers (cost) .
    People : Graduate Students, Researchers, Inventors, Engineers, Scientists.


    Ex. Biological Lab (100 percent science).


    There will be some hybrids, like Knowledge Inheritance (1 science, 1 education), the Myths but the majority will either be education or science exclusively . The reason for hybrids is in prehistory everything was thaught orally so a person was the teacher and the reseacher. So In prehistoric and maybe ancient there will be hybrids.

    Another example of Education and Science.

    Cooking School (education)
    Gastronomy Lab (science)

    University (education)
    Research Institute (science)

    Planaterium (education)
    Cosmology Lab (science) (not added)

    Online Genealogy Center (education)
    Bioimfomatics Lab (science).

    Journalism/Newspapers (education)
    Scientific Journals (science)

    Wikipedia (education)
    Academic Database (science)

    Clinic (education)
    Hospital (education /science)
    Research Hospital (science)

    Weather Station (education)
    Meteorology Lab (science).

    Printing Press (education).
    Book Publisher (education)
    Typewriter (education)


    Encyclopedia (Wonder) (Education)
    Theory of Relativity (Science)

    So a good rule of thumb if it's about learning, teaching, or spreading knowledge it's Education(spread) .

    Researching, Inventing, Discovering new sciences and technology is science (source/creation ) .

    Currently Education increases by 1 every turn based on population.

    The +1 science with Tech for some buildings will have to be tweaks to be +1 education with Tech.


    I know something should lower Education, I think their should be anti education pseudo buildings like Book Burning, Reality Shows, Approved Teaching (religious propaganda), Child Labor (+ hammers, - education), Drugs, Teen Gangs, Nerd Hazing (school is lame mantra).

    Some Religion should lower Education since they shun scientific knowledge and believe their myths and religious text to be truth.

    You want to know the best part? You can put Education civics to work!
     
  4. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Thanks for the breakdown. I will start working on them.
     
  5. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Your system is not scaling very well. Everything ended up being +1 or +2 or even not even +1. So I am tweaking it to this ...

    Old Base +:science: = +

    Education
    - Mathematics Academy = +3 Education Per Turn
    - Engineering School = +1 Education Per Turn
    - Astrology School = +2 Education Per Turn
    - University = +25 Education Per Turn
    - Library = +5 Education Per Turn
    - Knowledge Inheritance = +3 Education Per Turn
    - Elementary School = +5 Education Per Turn
    - Civil Servants School = +3 Education Per Turn
    - Museum = +5 Education Per Turn
    - Great Library = +10 Education Per Turn
    - University of Sankore = +25 Education Per Turn
    - Oxford University = +25 Education Per Turn
    - Siam Ho Trai = +10 Education Per Turn
    - Newton's University = +25 Education per Turn
    - National Library Service = +5 Education Per Turn
    - National Archives = +10 Education per Turn
    - Plato's Academy = +25 Education Per Turn
    - Tally Stone = +1 Education Per Turn
    - Counting Stones = +1 Education Per Turn
    - Online University = +25 Education Per Turn (Got to also fix per city)
    - Learning Center = +5 Education Per Turn
    - Propaganda Office = -5 Education Per Turn
    - Military School = +5 Education Per Turn
    - Planetarium = +5 Education Per Turn
    - City College = +10 Education Per Turn
    - Private School = +5 Education Per Turn
    - High School = +10 Education Per Turn
    - Calligraphy School = +1 Education Per Turn
    - Smithsonian = +20 Education
    - Science Symposium = +5 Education (plus keeps its science)

    Note I boosted some too but this seems a bit more constant than by cost. Especially since many do not go obsolete.

    EDIT: I also did not change the :science: with a tech or resource so some educations builds can produce :science: too.
     
  6. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    At my University (and I think on every other, too) there is LOT of research going on. We have Labs for Practical Labwork for new stuents but also labs where people are actually researching. It's not that easy.
     
  7. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Well the labs require the university. So they are like having labs at the university.
     
  8. Maxima7

    Maxima7 Warlord

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    The monasteries should have education.
     
  9. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

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    Sounds good, whatever you believe is the best equation.

    eDIT: If you can extract the Disease icon from GameFonts, I can add it to my smilies list .
     
  10. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Then you wil have to move the labs way back. Plato's Academy, The Great Library and so on all had research components. They should be hybrids!

    Monasteries should also be hybrids - where do you think the theory of genetics came from? Much of the religious teachings started out as natural science which later became education.
     
  11. Maxima7

    Maxima7 Warlord

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    This X n47
     
  12. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Ok now for the Labs and stuff.

    +1 Education = 1/5th Cost

    Research
    - Anthology Lab = 60+
    - Physics Lab = 50+
    - Chemistry Lab = 50+
    - Archeology Lab = 50+
    - Geology Lab = 80+
    - Biology Lab = 60+
    - Palaeontology Lab = 70+
    - Stargazer's Hut = 5+
    - Animal Lab = 130+
    - Volcanology Lab = 250+
    - Meteorite Lab = 360+
    - Observatory = 72+
    - Copernicus Observatory = 72+
    - Alchemist Lab = 22+
    - Laboratory = 204+
    - Research Institute = 810+
    - Accelerator = 300+
    - Cheomseongdae = 10+
    - Einstein's Lab = 156+
    - Salon = 70+
    - Deep Space Research Institute = 380+
    - Radio Telescope = 250+
    - Silicon Valley = 310+
    - Quantum Lab = 460+
    - Matter Decompiler = 3960+
    - Biological Warfare Lab = 250+
    - Microbiology Lab = 80+
    - Vaccine Lab = 130+
    - Astrobiology Lab =380+
    - Marine Biology Lab = 84+
    - Robotics Lab = 310+
    - Subterranean Lab = 2200+
    - Deep Sea Lab = 220+
    - Inventor's Workshop = 30+
    - Gen Farming Lab = 430+
    - Science Symposium = 430+

    I still think these seem a little low. Perhaps they should just be changed to the base cost of the buildings. What do you guys think?
     
  13. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Many ARE way back. Most of the labs appear BEFORE a proper Laboratory building.
     
  14. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

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    Well Hydro the 1/5 is how much Education that lab is going to need to be built.

    Again, feel free to adjust the equation. You could make them cost the same education as hammer or 1/2 or what you believe is best.
     
  15. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Well as it is with the 1/5th the cost they seem way too low especially when the buildings produce X amount of education per turn.

    And how much is city size giving too? Because we have to take in account how big a city would be during the period the building would be unlocked.
     
  16. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

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    Its currently 1 per population a turn, I can disable that..actually I think we should disable that, since science doesn't increase with population. Thoughts?
     
  17. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I'm so very glad to step back and watch you guys go on this while I restructure some things on my CC planning... Love this teamwork guys! Keep it up!
     
  18. Maxima7

    Maxima7 Warlord

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    Why wouldn't it? It doesn't if they remain uneducated and without opportunities, though.
     
  19. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

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    I ment :science: the game mechanic doesn't increase with population.
     
  20. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    I think i figured it out. What if rather than + or even 0 we had - ? Meaning the larger the population the harder it is to educate them. To simulate that there is a larger amount of people to educate.

    This would work well I think since there would not be all that many anti-education buildings and can provide a counter balance to all the + education.

    Perhaps like -4 per Population like how Crime is +4 crime per population.

    Can you chnage it? Thanks.
     

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