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Techs you deliberately ignore

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by mirthadir, Aug 28, 2008.

  1. mirthadir

    mirthadir Chieftain

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    I'm just wondering if I've missed any of these but there are a few techs in the game I deliberately ignore in order in certain circumstances. These are not just techs that you don't take in trade to avoid hitting WFYABTA, but techs that in and of themselves can be detrimental. These should be techs that you'd delay well after you could pick them up in trade for cheap or research them yourself in few turns.

    For example:

    HBR - if I'm at least semi-isolated (AI can't invade till astro) and I'm not running rep, I normally want to push up the happy cap with HR. Thus I want dirt cheap units that cost minimal :hammers:. Without HBR I can go all the way to advanced flight and still make chariots for garrison duty.

    Mass Media - if I control the AP I often much prefer to have :hammers: and religious diplomatic options remain in play rather than getting broadcast towers (and if I've gotten the Eiffel Tower even that is mute). If I have mining, or am planning on running SP then Civ Jewelers is also useless.

    Rifling - if I've gone down the steel/railroad track I often prefer to keep open the ability to make CRIII maces and then mass promote to CRIII infantry.

    Railroad/Mil Sci - same as above, keeping the option open to build CRIII rifles and infantry

    Feudalism - normally with the Chinese. One of the few strats that has worked for me on Deity is to power tech to machinery with the oracle and a bulb. If I have stone, I can then abuse overflow from walls and quick build archers to upgrade to CKN. Every single turn my new conquests can churn out a CKN at the front.

    Astro - on some maps (lots of islands) keeping the colossus is worth more long term than astro. Portugal with the colossus, freitoria, and the never ending GA (MoM + Taj + more GAs) is just too good to screw up for real ships and observatories.

    Corporation - TGL owns.

    Sci Meth- obsoletes so many goodies. For RE cultural and even AP diplo victories I often never research this. I want my monks and GL.

    Fiber Optics - If I'm abusing the Kremlin under US/Slave this is often not worth getting. Rush buying discounted nukes/tanks/whatever is way too powerful.

    Computers - nerfs the RE too hard. If I'm going for space with UoS, SM, and AP I often skip this for laser.

    PLEASE - READ THIS BEFORE POSTING:
    Okay folks I've tried this multiple times in the thread itself so I'm editing the original post; my apologies for not making this clearer from the get-go. I'm asking about techs that you actively avoid for a specific reason in a specific circumstance. This does not include "religious techs" because "they suck". This does not include resource unlocking techs like cal, AH, masonry, mining because "I don't have any of those resources". This does not include "I don't use civic X" so I don't research it. I'm looking just a bit deeper than things which are, frankly, obvious.

    This does include things like: researching hunting means I can no longer build cheap warriors for HR garrison units so I delay hunting when I have copper and no hunting resources. Likewise: researching Mass Media obsoletes the AP so I can no longer hold votes amongst a religious electorate I dominate.

    What I'd like are techs you've found particular circumstances that warrant avoiding it (not just neglecting to research it, not just not trading for it, but getting annoyed if you popped it from a goodie hut on a tundra island).

    For those of you with bit more knowledge, I'd like to know when/how you estimate the cost/benifit flip. I.e. Delaying Corporation is worth it only if:
    1. 2/3rds or more of my cities are costal.
    2. I have overseas trade.
    3. I don't have the GP for good corps (like Sushi/mining) or I'm planning to run SP.
    4. I have no religious shrine (or a shrine not worth getting WS).
    5. I haven't tapped out other lines of research.

    While I have a rough idea when TGL merits delaying corporation (and all subsequent techs), I'd like to know how you weight them and when the tipping point occurs.

    I am aware of bulb paths (like no meditation for astro, no monarch for a CoL GP bulb, ec.) but while I can derive these paths from the tables WHICH paths do you commonly use WHEN? For instance I know it is possible to Bulb DR with GAs if you don't take aesthetics; thus allowing an isolated start where you were researching Theology but lost the race to still chop build the AP. Have I ever done that? No. It sounds like it might be possible if I use a GP from SH to bulb Theo, 1 turn too late; to try to recover by running umpteen caste artists, but search me if it works. Anyone know first hand?

    I'm asking what do actively avoid because merely knowing the tech utterly for free would screw up your plans? When do you this? How do you determine this is the best course.

    So I thank those of you who posted techs you think tend not to be worth it, but that is not the information I seek.

     
  2. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    monotheism / theology / divine rights, because they are useless most of the time...
     
  3. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Hunting :p
     
  4. Vorret

    Vorret Chieftain

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    if you have a religion and lots of city divine right can be very interesting
     
  5. mirthadir

    mirthadir Chieftain

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    Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not looking for useless techs. I looking for techs that if you magically popped them from a hut would be detrimental in some respect. Something where merely acquiring the tech ex niliho would stop you from doing something you want.
     
  6. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    Hunting is probably the biggest one then, along with iron working. Stopping production of the best unit in the game! Warriors(for happiness purposes anyways :p). All the techs that obsolete something are sometimes usefull to skip. If your economy is based around it skipping astronomy to preserve collosus can certanly be worth it...
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Pretty much any tech that would screw up bulbing would annoy me in that respect.

    I also avoid either rifling or mil sci occasionally to get more CR troops, especially if I'm not aggressive and on a water map.

    I avoid sci method on occasion - and this occasion is usually when I am VERY heavily cottaged (minimal farms) and not all that big empirewise yet. This makes the otherwise dominating post sci-method techs still good, but not as mandatory as normal. In other words, I go down other lines, THEN research sci method and trade for these power techs. This is also weighted by how much the monasteries are giving me. If I'm getting 20-30 of both gpt and bpt off them then I might hold off a bit!

    I don't usually go out of my way to avoid techs though - it's usually a cost/benefit thing and that may mean avoiding some techs temporarily.

    Although, if the wonders are taken or if I can't make use of them I'll avoid DR for the entire game...and yet in some games I want it.
     
  8. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Chieftain

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    I certainly wouldn't skip rifling for the CR bonus. I prefer attacking cities with CR sieg over attacking with CR troops.
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I don't think he's advocating skipping it (you can't make infantry without it...), just avoiding it temporarily to mass maces first. If you're not attacking and aren't in threat of DoW it doesn't really matter I guess.
     
  10. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    not really worth to upgrade maces to rifles or infantery just for the cr promos though... soooo expensive to upgrade units...
     
  11. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

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    I often avoid:
    Hunting (I get it eventually if I have furs, ivory)
    HBR unless I'm Mongolia or Carthage (I get HBR eventually if I plan to build knights/cuirassiers or am playing Arabia, Byzantium, Spain ..)
    Monotheism, Theology, Divine Right (I trade for earlier religious techs)

    I rarely research (often trade for) Drama and Music
     
  12. tycoonist

    tycoonist Chieftain

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    skipping on corporation if i have the GLighthouse and most of my cities are coastal
     
  13. tycoonist

    tycoonist Chieftain

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    it is a good (but expensive) way to turn a commercial powerhouse into a military one
     
  14. semirami

    semirami The Wolf

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    Any tech, that obsoletes your quest, if you're close to completion
     
  15. lilnev

    lilnev Chieftain

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    I think the first 3-5 rifles are worth it. I'll sac seige units first, but then it's fairly common to reach a point where there are two or three strong defenders remaining, such that CRII cannons would lose but CRIII rifles would win. Every time that comes up, your promoted rifle saves you most of a cannon.
     
  16. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Well the ideal start in terms of skipping techs is a creative civ that doesn't start with hunting or mysticism, with which you find copper or horses nearby but no hunting resources.
    Now you can skip the hunting->archery branch and can delay the mysticism branch for quite some time.

    I don't like to build chariots for garrison duty since they only give 2000 soldiers. For 5 more hammers you get an axeman which gives 3000 soldiers. Power rating lets you stay alive. Of course, if I play as Mali I get the awesome Skirmishers even if I have copper since they give a staggering 4000 soldiers at only 25 hammers. :)
     
  17. D_almighty

    D_almighty Wanna-be Deity

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    I'm not sure if this counts, but I had an archipelago map with Roosevelt where I won by domination and never teched agriculture (never settled anywhere without tons of seafood and all my captured cities' resources were improved already) It came to the point where I just decided not to tech it; I could have finished it in one turn.

    Edit: 50 posts! =D
     
  18. Ormur

    Ormur Chieftain

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    Astronomy, Scientific method and Computers is what I often avoid for some time. I'm a wonderspammer and I like monasteries and temples for my religious economy.
     
  19. schwartz

    schwartz Chieftain

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    monotheism/theology/divine right.
    hunting
    sometimes scimeth
    military tradition in most games.
     
  20. Monsterzuma

    Monsterzuma the sly one

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    Calendar, when there are none of the resources about. Also when happiness is not an issue.
    Monarchy, when I have enough happiness to suit my needs; mostly when expanding horizontally.
    Mathematics/code of laws/alphabet: big money techs that do disappointingly little. I will only tech them quickly when they are on a tech path to something I need (bureaucracy, philosophy), or when I need one of the buffs they give for a specific goal.
    Masonry: a very situational tech. No resource, no need to get it.
    Monotheism: I rarely tech this.

    And, yes, hunting. Rexing without warriors is an outright nightmare. Ever chopped an archer using 1 forrest and find out you're 2 hammers short to finish in 1 turn? Beside that, warriors are perfect as HR guards.
     

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