Thatcher Revelations

[Quackers]

Thatcher was libretarian not compassionate con.

 

[nonconformist]

So, I assume you went to private school?

Never used the NHS?

 

[nonconformist]

Thatcher was libretarian not compassionate con.

Also, Libertarians tend not to like imprisoning people without charge, having the police torture foreigners, and having a seven day custody.

EDIT: hmm, why did it make a new post instead of editing into my last one?

 

[Quackers]

So, I assume you went to private school?

Never used the NHS?

Nop too poor to go to private school but if i were rich enough i definitly send my own kids in future state schools are bad, everybody knows it - but that is another discussion. I don't have private health insurance I've used NHS my whole life.

Anyway it is totally pointless if I have or haven't. Your just playing old class-war games.

Also, Libertarians tend not to like imprisoning people without charge, having the police torture foreigners, and having a seven day custody.

EDIT: hmm, why did it make a new post instead of editing into my last one?

Well I never heard of that before but it sounds far more like the current labour government 42 days anyone? Asylum seeker detention centres?

 

[Grimz101]

Yes, I do.

I was in court at age 2, under Poll Tax laws.
I lived in a village of 200 people, where most were self employed as farmers or hunters, because there was no industry.

My dad was lucky to have a job, 4 hours away, at leat.
I saw him 2 days a week, since he gave up seeing his kids grow up, so he could feed them.
We had bailiffs around ever single week.
I saw men reduced to pitiful scavenging to survive.

The greatest day I rememeber in my life is seeing my mother's face when she told me, as a 9 year old child that the Tories had lost to Labour.

When you see these things, as a child, you never forget, and you never forgive.

Maggie, the day you die will be the greatest day in my life.

Not to be horrible but those are the results of living in an village so small, or being in an area that depended on certain industries 100%. Some of became unprofitable which was not maggie's fault but the fault of the investment programs after WWII which caused these(especially in scotland), sometimes theres just no need for a village in the middle of no where thats why life there is so hard.
Not to mention farming is vastly unprofitable, and only able to exist in most cases because of the EU Subsidies
However I agree with the poll tax point, it wasn't progressive, and would probably hurt the economy a great deal.

 

[nonconformist]

Nop too poor to go to private school but if i were rich enough i definitly send my own kids in future state schools are bad, everybody knows it - but that is another discussion. I don't have private health insurance I've used NHS my whole life.

Anyway it is totally pointless if I have or haven't. Your just playing old class-war games.

Then you're mooching off the state, asome conservative you are, why don't you go out and earn what you get, instead of getting the nanny state to do it for you?

Well I never heard of that before but it sounds far more like the current labour government 42 days anyone? Asylum seeker detention centres?

What?
You never ehard of the Maze? Seven long days? Irishmen being picked up, and beaten by police?

As for 42 days, why do you think they got away with it? Because the precedent was there, set by Margaret bloody Thatcher

 

[Quackers]

I'm a Conservative not a libretarian actually - proved my point there.

Irishmen? LOL are you kidding me - these aren't civies being pulled off the streets of Dublin these are tough hard terroists, enemy combantants, who incidentally tried to blow up MT and killed many of my countryman for a good 30 years.

So 42 days, is MTs fault again is it? Unbelieveble. You can't continue blaming everything which has ever negatively befallen on Thatcher - there is almost a tint of mysogny too...

 

[nonconformist]

Not to be horrible but those are the results of living in an village so small, or being in an area that depended on certain industries 100%. Some of became unprofitable which was not maggie's fault but the fault of the investment programs after WWII which caused these(especially in scotland), sometimes theres just no need for a village in the middle of no where thats why life there is so hard.
Not to mention farming is vastly unprofitable, and only able to exist in most cases because of the EU Subsidies
However I agree with the poll tax point, it wasn't progressive, and would probably hurt the economy a great deal.

It wasn't just that though; it spread to most of the north, and Wales.
The question wasn't "should the pits be closed" it was, how would the government ensure that these people, who had worked in these industries for generations, could re-integrate into society with the necessary skills.
Instead, the government cut them all loose, and expected the market to take care of them.
Communities were devastated, because they couldn't support themselves.
There was no proviso for the unemloyed or the poor to get any support, and people had to get charity from the Trade Unions.

Farming may not be profitable, but it's nonje the less a necessity in Britain, and Maggie was the silly cow who wangled us loads of rebates, for nothing but nationalistic pride.

 

[nonconformist]

Irishmen? LOL are you kidding me - these aren't civies being pulled off the streets of Dublin these are tough hard terroists who incidentally tried to blow up MT and killed many of my countryman for a good 30 years.

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you actually ignorant?

Birmingham Six, arrested in the UK, tortured and threatened with death by the police, spent 16 years in prison, released under Labour.
Maguire Seven.
Guildford Four, arrested in UK, conviction quashed 14 years later.

All were tortured by the Police.

So 42 days, is MTs fault again is it? Unbelieveble. You can't continue blaming everything which has ever negatively befallen on Thatcher - there is almost a tint of mysogny too...

Without the precedent she set; she opened the floodgates; the 42 days would not even have been considered.

 

[Traitorfish]

Thatcher was libretarian not compassionate con.

I think that you're confusing "libertarian" with... Well, I want to say "Whore of Mammon", but I'm not sure if that's the technical term for it.

 

[Quackers]

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you actually ignorant?

Birmingham Six, arrested in the UK, tortured and threatened with death by the police, spent 16 years in prison, released under Labour.
Maguire Seven.
Guildford Four, arrested in UK, conviction quashed 14 years later.

All were tortured by the Police.


Without the precedent she set; she opened the floodgates; the 42 days would not even have been considered.

So thatcher told the police to torture them? C'mon you can't blame Thatcher on EVERY little detail happening under her administraition - she wasn't a despot she doesn't have complete control.

Yeah Thatcher did 42 days not labour

 

[Plotinus]

For the sake of accuracy, when Thatcher said "there's no such thing as society", that wasn't intended as an expression of extreme individualism. What she meant was that when we talk about "society" we are talking about each other, not about some mysterious "other" thing. When "society" has an obligation or does something, or bears the cost of something, that means that we all have that obligation or bear that cost jointly. Which was of course quite right.

I don't say that to defend Thatcher, whom I quite agree was a pretty ghastly character for the reasons given and plenty more (I think in particular her views on homosexuality were regressive even for the time), but I think one should at least criticise her for what she actually meant or did. The "no such thing as society" quote gets constantly misinterpreted - although ironically the misinterpretation of it does sum up rather neatly much of the Conservative philosophy.

 

[nonconformist]

Jesus, do you not understand the concept of "precedent"?

Labour could never have passed that act had there not been some prior institution in place.

 

[Grimz101]

It wasn't just that though; it spread to most of the north, and Wales.
The question wasn't "should the pits be closed" it was, how would the government ensure that these people, who had worked in these industries for generations, could re-integrate into society with the necessary skills.
Instead, the government cut them all loose, and expected the market to take care of them.
Communities were devastated, because they couldn't support themselves.
There was no proviso for the unemloyed or the poor to get any support, and people had to get charity from the Trade Unions.

Farming may not be profitable, but it's nonje the less a necessity in Britain, and Maggie was the silly cow who wangled us loads of rebates, for nothing but nationalistic pride.

Because the North and Wales still contained lots of Industrial Era businesses, Its as if they were in a time lag, and to expand on my earlier point, most of these Businesses were lured to their locations by government planning after the WWII to reinvigorate the UK, which shows one of the problems with doing this. That the government does not know whats the best to build in the long-run, and usually insists on cookie cutter similar models for every place because governments lack imagination, which is what culminated in the problem you're talking about with the market correcting it.

Indeed the Government's response to this Crisis was not the best possible, and they should have concentrated on reeducation, and decisiveness, but to be honest i doubt any other government would have been able to handle it well.
Thatchers ruthlessness & simplemindedness was a double edged sword ultimately securing the rebates among other things, but causing mass unpopularity with the miners, poll tax & eventually the destruction of the conservatives latter government with her continued involvement after leaving, and especially with the EU split Drama in her party.

Overall she did preside over the transformation of the UK being the sick-man of Europe to one of Europe's strongest.

 

[nonconformist]

Yep, we're doing so, so well now

 

[Quackers]

Jesus, do you not understand the concept of "precedent"?

Labour could never have passed that act had there not been some prior institution in place.

I would be more synpathetic if it were a future Conservative government who did it but a Labour government increasing it by 6-fold to 42 is not precedent it is genuine deliberate policy. I don't even want 7 days myself for ordinary criminals - but for terroists they should be locked away like enemy combatants are.

Thatcher's fault for recent economic crisis too?

 

[Grimz101]

Yep, we're doing so, so well now

The fact that the people in charge of financial regulation got paid 5-10 times less then their counterparts had nothing to do with it I'm sure.
Added to that if the UK actually listened to anyone who told them their House prices were inflated and needed an interest rate rise to correct this, (while I'm at it and Spain & especially America with those low low low interest rates causing the bubble to grow with all the cheap loans available)

 

[Traitorfish]

Because the North and Wales still contained lots of Industrial Era businesses, Its as if they were in a time lag, and to expand on my earlier point, most of these Businesses were lured to their locations by government planning after the WWII to reinvigorate the UK, which shows one of the problems with doing this. That the government does not know whats the best to build in the long-run, and usually insists on cookie cutter similar models for every place because governments lack imagination, which is what culminated in the problem you're talking about with the market correcting it.

The North has always housed the bulk of British industry; more often than not, market forces demanded it, due to the greater local availability of natural resources. The shipyards of the Clyde or Tyne-Wear weren't some post-war regeneration scheme, they began two centuries ago, a result of the local production of iron and coal that dates back centuries further. The production of manufactured goods were at more liberty to be shifted around as necessary, granted, but that was why it tended to be situated in the North in the first place; the decline of those industries was one across Britain, not just in the North.
That's not to say that British industry wasn't out-dated, but the idea that it's dismantling represented the capitalist class taking back the bone that they'd previously thrown the North is simply incorrect.

 

[nonconformist]

I would be more synpathetic if it were a future Conservative government who did it but a Labour government increasing it by 6-fold to 42 is not precedent it is genuine deliberate policy. I don't even want 7 days myself for ordinary criminals - but for terroists they should be locked away like enemy combatants are.

Thatcher's fault for recent economic crisis too?

The Seven Day rule was applied to anyone who was Irish or Catholic

It used to be that any feller named Fitzgerald or Collins would be arrested on sight