The all new, totally accepted, bigotry thread - "Blame a Christian"

Some do... some won't.

What's the point in using arguments that you know to be ineffective in a debate? Yeah, sure your fellow Christians will give you a pat in the back, but that doesn't mean that using your wacky Bible arguments is a good thing for this or any discussion. Debates should be conducted in a way that both sides understand where the other side is coming from and what their arguments are based on.
 
God does not exist. Proof: www.google.com.

Wow, that was easy, I don't know why I even bothered with these cumbersome arguments all time.
 
I actually just did google and I urge anyone to do the same.

It's a lesson in the power of rationalisation after the fact. It's quackism at it's most hilarious.

edit: Looking a bit further, Nostradamus' predictions were much more specific than those in the Bible.

London Fire:
“The blood of the just will be demanded of London,
Burnt by the fire in the year 66″

“The blood of the just will commit a fault at London,
burnt through lighting of twenty threes the six:
The ancient lady will fall from her high place,
several of the same sect will be killed.”


The Great Fire of London was a major conflagration that swept through the central parts of the English city of London, from Sunday, 2 September to Wednesday, 5 September 1666.

Unlike the Bible prophecies, this one has the actual place in it, and the year it happened. Of course, this too is complete and utter bunk.
 
What's the point in using arguments that you know to be ineffective in a debate? Yeah, sure your fellow Christians will give you a pat in the back, but that doesn't mean that using your wacky Bible arguments is a good thing for this or any discussion. Debates should be conducted in a way that both sides understand where the other side is coming from and what their arguments are based on.
I'm notalways debating to convince others... I speak my opinion.
This site isn't only about winning debates, but being exposed to other points of view... at least to me.
 
I'm notalways debating to convince others... I speak my opinion.
This site isn't only about winning debates, but being exposed to other points of view... at least to me.

The funny thing here is that you complained of having to repeat a thousand times how OT prophecies various things, and now you say that you're just speaking your opinion. If you have already spoken your opinion a thousand times, don't you think that we already know what you think of the Bible's prophetical abilities?

I'm not saying that you should refrain from posting in religion-themed threads, all I'm saying that even a former-active-member-now-more-of-a-lurker aka me thinks that you are like a broken record, always telling the same story. I'm sure you have more to say than just "it's in the Bible, read it folks."
 
The funny thing here is that you complained of having to repeat a thousand times how OT prophecies various things, and now you say that you're just speaking your opinion. If you have already spoken your opinion a thousand times, don't you think that we already know what you think of the Bible's prophetical abilities?

I'm not saying that you should refrain from posting in religion-themed threads, all I'm saying that even a former-active-member-now-more-of-a-lurker aka me thinks that you are like a broken record, always telling the same story. I'm sure you have more to say than just "it's in the Bible, read it folks."
Absolutely I have more to say than that... but not when it falls upon deaf ears.

I post the same thing, get the same rebuttals from the same people... :deadhorse:
 
Well, if it wasn't prophecied as a punishment for rejecting Christ... but you'd surely already know that... since it has been posted here many times already.

you didnt just claim the holocaust was a punishment by god, did you?

christ, you sir, are plain despicable.
 
Kochman, where in the OT prophecies does it mention the Holocaust? I'm willing to take anything more specific than "In the future, bad stuff will happen" level of prophecies.
 
Kochman, where in the OT prophecies does it mention the Holocaust? I'm willing to take anything more specific than "In the future, bad stuff will happen" level of prophecies.
Here it is.
I don't want to argue about it, you guys are tiring me out and the personal attacks are really unnecessary... I'm replying to you, Ady, because unlike the others, you haven't been attacking me personally on a regular basis recently.
Spoiler :
Ezekiel 7 is the prophecy of WWII and the Holocaust. The scripture begins with a statement that it is a
world wide judgment.

"Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God
unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land." (Ez. 7:1,2). At the time
that this scripture is fulfilled, the people of Israel are dispersed all over the earth. The judgment is upon
the people of Israel, but the end time comes upon the whole earth, "the end is come upon the four
corners of the land."

"Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send Mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to
thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations. And Mine eye shall not spare thee,
neither will I have pity: but I will recompense thy ways upon thee, and thine abominations shall be in the
midst of thee: and ye shall know that I am the Lord." (Ez. 7:3,4). Israel is judged for refusing Christ, both
when He preached the New Testament, and when He taught the Old Testament (see below). Throughout
the centuries, the rabbis, the center of Jewish spiritual life, have called Christ a fraud and a delusion;
"thine abominations shall be in the midst of thee."

The known Jews also forgot the brotherly covenant and (unknowingly) abused members of the lost tribes
in their desire to amass worldly goods. "And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift
witness... against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that
turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not Me, saith the Lord of hosts." (Mal. 3:5).

Additionally, many of the powerful men of all twelve tribes (princes) oppressed the poor, and the rabbis
and wisemen (ancients of the people) did not stop them. "The Lord will enter into judgment with the
ancients of His people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor
is in your houses. What mean ye that ye beat My people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith
the Lord God of hosts." (Is. 3:14,15). The poor of the earth are under God's protection and He will avenge
them when they are oppressed.

God judged the house of Israel for all these faults, as He said, "I will send Mine anger upon thee, and will
judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations." The purpose of
this judgment was to show Israel that He ruled over them, "I will recompense thy ways upon thee... and ye
shall know that I am the Lord."

"Thus saith the Lord God; An evil, an only evil, behold, is come." (Ez. 7:5). This terrible judgment,
specifically on Israel, will accomplish its purpose. Israel "shall know that I am the Lord." (Ez. 27:7). This is
the "only evil" that will fall on both righteous and unrighteous without warning. A separation of those
obedient to God, from those indifferent to God, will precede future judgments.

"An end is come, the end is come: it watcheth for thee; behold, it is come." (Ez. 7:6). This verse heralds
the beginning of the end time. It looms over the house of Israel. The trouble in Nazi Germany began with
the marking of the Jews by the government, which forced them to wear a Star of David in preparation to
killing them, "it watcheth for thee."

"The morning is come unto thee, O thou that dwellest in the land: the time is come, the day of trouble is
near, and not the sounding again of the mountains." (Ez. 7:7). This is the very beginning of the time of
trouble, not war as usual between the nations, "the sounding again of the mountains." (Mountains can be
a symbol of the nations, see Jer. 51:24,25). This verse is about the time of Jacob's trouble, it is centered
on the people of Israel. History places them in America, but also throughout Europe, where the worst of
the fighting and the atrocities took place.

(Many Christians think of themselves as Spiritual Israel, and in this they are correct. But they are also
physical Israel. When the ten tribes of the kingdom Samaria (the northern half of ancient Israel) migrated
away from the Assyrian invasion of their homeland, they went west to Europe. As was their tradition, the
tribe of Dan marked the places of their sojourn with the name of their father, Dn in Hebrew (the Hebrew
language has no vowels). So the Don river and the Danube, and Sweden, and Denmark, and Scandinavia
bear record of their progress. In more recent history, members of the ten tribes migrated south to France
(the north men, Normans), and both the Danes and the Normans conquered England. From Europe and
England, members of the ten tribes settled America. In the lands where the ten tribes were scattered,
they were joined by the members of the tribe of Judah, who left Israel to form the Christian Church. Then
they were joined by the known Jews who were cast out of their land, Judah.)

Before continuing with Ezekiel 7, here is the prophecy of the time of trouble that centers on the house of
Israel. "And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah (all the
descendants of Jacob). For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of
peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his
hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is
great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it
shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will
burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: but they shall serve the Lord their
God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them. Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob,
saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land
of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him
afraid. For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I
have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not
leave thee altogether unpunished." (Jer. 30:4-11). As horrible as the Holocaust seems, a great many
people of the house of Israel survived it, as God says: "I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave
thee altogether unpunished." And the Lord promises that Israel will have His help. "I am with thee, saith
the Lord, to save thee."

"Now will I shortly pour out My fury upon thee, and accomplish Mine anger upon thee: and I will judge
thee according to thy ways, and will recompense thee for all thine abominations. And Mine eye shall not
spare, neither will I have pity: I will recompense thee according to thy ways and thine abominations that
are in the midst of thee; and ye shall know that I am the Lord that smiteth." (Ez. 7:8,9). This is an Ezekiel 9
type judgment. "...Let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: slay utterly old and young, both maids, and
little children, and women..." (Ez. 9:5,6), because God says "Mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have
pity." Wicked and innocent are destroyed together.

Behold the day, behold, it is come: the morning is gone forth; the rod hath blossomed, pride hath
budded." (Ez. 7:10). This scripture records events as the dawning of the end time begins, "behold the
day... is come: the morning is gone forth". The blossoming rod of the scripture is Aaron's rod.

The blossoming rod is a symbol of the leadership of the house of Israel. "And the Lord spake unto Moses,
saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and take of every one of them a rod according to the house of
their fathers, of all their princes according to the house of their fathers twelve rods: write thou every
man’s name upon his rod. And thou shalt write Aaron’s name upon the rod of Levi: for one rod shall be for
the head of the house of their fathers. And thou shalt lay them up in the tabernacle of the congregation
before the testimony, where I will meet with you. And it shall come to pass, that the man’s rod, whom I
shall choose, shall blossom: and I will make to cease from Me the murmurings of the children of Israel,
whereby they murmur against you. And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their
princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers’ houses, even twelve rods:
and the rod of Aaron was among their rods. And Moses laid up the rods before the Lord in the tabernacle
of witness. And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and,
behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed
blossoms, and yielded almonds." (Num. 17:1-8). Aaron was Moses' spokesman. So confirming the
leadership of Aaron was the same as confirming the leadership of Moses. Thus, God stopped those who
"murmured against" Moses.

(The rod budded, bloomed and yielded almonds all at once. This is impossible in nature, but it perfectly
describes the gathering of the Kingdom of God. People who barely know the message, buds, will bring
forth other converts, the rod "was budded, and brought forth buds." These people are the great
multitude of Gospel workers seen in Rev. 7. Sealed servants of God, blossoms, with full knowledge of the
message that calls the Kingdom will yield almonds, saints, the rod "bloomed blossoms, and yielded
almonds." These sealed servants of God are the 144,000 of Rev. 7 and 14.)

That the rod had blossomed again at the dawning of the end time means that God had chosen a new
spokesman to represent Him before the house of Israel. That rod was V. T. Houteff. He explained over 90
chapters of the prophetic scriptures, most of them from the Old Testament. He represented both God and
Christ before the house of Israel.

The known Jews were offended that a non-Jew would preach the Old Testament. They considered the
Old Testament to be their pride and possession, their "pride hath budded." Eventually some reacted by
joining in a conspiracy to murder Houteff.

"Violence is risen up into a rod of wickedness: none of them shall remain, nor of their multitude, nor of
any of theirs: neither shall there be wailing for them." (Ez. 7:11). God was justly offended by the refusal to
hear His chosen messenger. He allowed an evil cabal to become a rod of wickedness, "violence is risen
up into a rod of wickedness." (Also see No. 70, "The Glittering Sword Of Ezekiel 21" for a discussion of
the genesis of this evil cabal.) Because of God's wrath, all the Jews were taken away, "none of them shall
remain, nor of their multitude, nor of any of theirs." Individual Jews were not mourned when they died,
because their relatives were also taken, and because the war allowed the Nazi to keep the death camps
secret, "neither shall there be wailing for them."

To summarize: there are two rods in Ezekiel 7:10,11. First, the rod of Aaron of the house of Levi, the
priesthood, which was the rod chosen by God, V. T. Houteff, the rod that blossomed. Houteff, the rod,
came teaching how to please God. "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord
require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? The Lord’s voice
crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed
it." (Micah 6:8,9). The second rod is the rod of an evil cabal, who rose up violently into a rod of
wickedness, and led the conspiracy to fight God. Because Judah, the tribe of the known Jews, refused
God's messengers, first Christ, then V. T. Houteff, the punishment on Judah, the known Jews, was the
worst of the suffering during WWII, about six million European Jews died in the Nazi death camps.

"The time is come, the day draweth near: let not the buyer rejoice, nor the seller mourn: for wrath is upon
all the multitude thereof." (Ez. 7:12). Events in Nazi Germany became uglier as the judgment approached,
"the time is come, the day draweth near." Some Germans purchased Jewish property cheaply. God
advises neither to rejoice nor mourn, "let not the buyer rejoice, nor the seller mourn." Commercial
transactions become as nothing as the wrath of God envelops Jews, Nazis, and the whole world, "for
wrath is upon all the multitude thereof."

"For the seller shall not return to that which is sold, although they were yet alive: for the vision is
touching the whole multitude thereof, which shall not return; neither shall any strengthen himself in the
iniquity of his life." (Ez. 7:13). Some of the Jews, who sold their property cheaply to escape the Nazis,
survive, but the survivors never return to claim their property, "the seller shall not return to that which
is sold, although they were yet alive." The vision is upon all European Jews, they will be taken away and
never return, "the vision is touching the whole multitude thereof, which shall not return." The criminal
shall not survive despite his underworld connections, "neither shall any strengthen himself in the
iniquity of his life."

"They have blown the trumpet, even to make all ready; but none goeth to the battle: for My wrath is upon
all the multitude thereof." (Ez. 7:14). The Jews had warning that the Nazis were preparing to do them
harm, "they have blown the trumpet, even to make all ready." But God's wrath kept the Jews from
resisting, "none goeth to the battle: for My wrath is upon all the multitude thereof."

"The sword is without, and the pestilence and the famine within: he that is in the field shall die with the
sword; and he that is in the city, famine and pestilence shall devour him." (Ez. 7:15). The Jews were
crowded into urban ghettos with the threat of violence, they were sick and hungry in the ghettos, "the
sword is without, and the pestilence and the famine within." They were hunted down in the countryside,
and died by famine and disease within the ghetto, "he that is in the field shall die with the sword; and he
that is in the city, famine and pestilence shall devour him."

"But they that escape of them shall escape, and shall be on the mountains like doves of the valleys, all of
them mourning, every one for his iniquity." (Ez. 7:16). God will allow some of the European Jews to
escape the Nazis, "but they that escape of them shall escape." The dove is the symbol of the Holy Ghost;
God preserves some of the righteous (children of the Holy Ghost), they are displaced among the
nations, "they shall be on the mountains like doves of the valleys." These mourn their brethren, this is
their lot because of the judgment for the iniquity of Israel, "all of them mourning, every one for his
iniquity."

"All hands shall be feeble, and all knees shall be weak as water." (Ez. 7:17). The sheer horror of the Nazi
plan to eliminate the Jews takes away their strength.

"They shall also gird themselves with sackcloth, and horror shall cover them; and shame shall be upon all
faces, and baldness upon all their heads." (Ez. 7:18). The Jews are in mourning and horrified, "they shall
also gird themselves with sackcloth, and horror shall cover them." Their treatment in the Nazi death
camps, where most are stripped naked and gassed, shames them, "shame shall be upon all faces". Those
kept alive to work are ashamed to survive. The living have their heads shaved, "baldness upon all their
heads."

"They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold
shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord: they shall not satisfy their souls,
neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity." (Ez. 7:19). The money of the
Jews will not help them, "they shall cast their silver in the streets." The Nazis will steal their possessions,
even their gold teeth, "their gold shall be removed." Because of the wrath of the Lord, the Nazis won't
take bribes, "their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the
Lord." Their beliefs will fail to comfort them, "they shall not satisfy their souls." In ghettos and death
camps, there will never be enough food, they will not "fill their bowels." The "stumblingblock of their
iniquity" is their refusal to accept Christ.

The Old Testament prophecy of Christ was that He would be a stumbling block to both houses of Israel.
"And he shall be for a sanctuary (to those who accept Him); but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of
offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem." (Is. 8:14).
Christ preached Himself as a stone. "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The
stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing,
and it is marvellous in our eyes? And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken (in spirit, but
saved): but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder (completely destroy him)." (Matt. 21:
42,44). Paul preached Christ as a stumbling block. "As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone
and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." (Romans 9:33). "But we
preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness." (1 Cor. 1:23).

"As for the beauty of his ornament, he set it in majesty: but they made the images of their abominations
and of their detestable things therein: therefore have I set it far from them." (Ez. 7:20). God gave the
Jews His Law and His Kingdom and His Temple; the earthly Temple was glorious, "as for the beauty of his
ornament, he set it in majesty." The Jews defiled all three, "they made the images of their abominations
and of their detestable things therein." Therefore the Kingdom and the Temple were taken away from
them, "therefore have I set it far from them."

The Kingdom of God was taken from the Jews when they refused Christ. "Therefore say I unto you, The
kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." (Matt. 21:
43). The Kingdom of God was given to the Christians. The temple was destroyed shortly after Christ's
crucifixion. The remaining glory of the German Jews was destroyed on Krystallnacht, as over 1000
synagogues were vandalized or burned.

Krystallnacht, the night of broken glass, Nov. 9/10, 1938 was the beginning of nightmarish persecution
with more than 90 Jews killed, 25,000 to 30,000 Jews sent to concentration camps and broken glass,
looting, arson and destruction in thousands of Jewish businesses and synagogues. This night was the
start of the time of Jacob's trouble.

(It is not a coincidence that this message has been freed from the shackles of Babylon this year, seventy
years after Krystallnacht. This is the first of the angel messages to reach a world wide audience during
the life of the messenger.)

"And I will give it into the hands of the strangers for a prey, and to the wicked of the earth for a spoil; and
they shall pollute it." (Ez. 7:21). The wealth of the Jews and their synagogues is taken away, "I will give it
into the hands of the strangers for a prey." Much of the loot is sold at garage sale prices to rich
collectors who ignore its origins, it goes "to the wicked of the earth for a spoil." In the hands of
collectors, holy things are defiled, "they shall pollute it."

"My face will I turn also from them, and they shall pollute My secret place: for the robbers shall enter into
it, and defile it." (Ez. 7:22). God refuses to help the Jews, even as the vandalism and looting of their
synagogues continues, "My face will I turn also from them, and they shall pollute My secret place." In
looting the synagogues, the Torahs are stolen and abused, "robbers shall enter into it, and defile it."

"Make a chain: for the land is full of bloody crimes, and the city is full of violence." (Ez. 7:23). God allows
the Nazis to seize nation after nation like links in a chain, "make a chain." This is a judgment on the world,
"for the land is full of bloody crimes, and the city is full of violence."

"Wherefore I will bring the worst of the heathen, and they shall possess their houses: I will also make the
pomp of the strong to cease; and their holy places shall be defiled." (Ez. 7:24). God brings the Nazis upon
each nation, and they move into the houses of the rich. "Wherefore I will bring the worst of the heathen,
and they shall possess their houses." The Nazis steal priceless artworks and jewelry and beautiful
possessions, "I will also make the pomp of the strong to cease." The Nazis even rob the churches of the
Christians, "their holy places shall be defiled." Because the Nazis defile what is holy, even though most
would claim to be Christians, God calls them " the worst of the heathens."

"Destruction cometh; and they shall seek peace, and there shall be none." (Ez. 7:25). The war spreads to
Africa and Asia bringing destruction everywhere it touches, "destruction cometh." All over the earth,
people pray for peace, but peace can't be found; "and they shall seek peace, and there shall be none."

"Mischief shall come upon mischief, and rumour shall be upon rumour; then shall they seek a vision of
the prophet; but the law shall perish from the priest, and counsel from the ancients." (Ez. 7:26). The Nazis
continue to steal, destroy and defile, "mischief shall come upon mischief." Rumors of the Nazi death
camps arise again and again, "rumour shall be upon rumour." The Rabbis and wise men search the
scriptures for God's help in understanding the calamity, "then shall they seek a vision of the prophet."
God refuses to help them, instead He takes their leadership away from them, "but the law shall perish
from the priest, and counsel from the ancients."

"The king shall mourn, and the prince shall be clothed with desolation, and the hands of the people of
the land shall be troubled: I will do unto them after their way, and according to their deserts will I judge
them; and they shall know that I am the Lord." (Ez. 7:27). In kingdom after kingdom, the royal families shall
be grieved, "the king shall mourn, and the prince shall be clothed with desolation." Whether directly
exposed to the war or not, working men and women all over the earth shall suffer hardship and
confusion, "the hands (workers) of the people of the land shall be troubled." Those who offend God will
be slain, "I will do unto them after their way." All over the earth people will be judged, "according to their
deserts will I judge them."

The most important information in this prophecy is in the last phrase, "and they shall know that I am the
Lord." This is God's purpose. He is showing all the earth that His judgments are on the way. As the
raptured harpers sing before God, "Who shall not fear Thee, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? for Thou only
art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before Thee, for Thy judgments are made manifest." (Rev.
15:4).

Inherent in Ezekiel 7 is the warning that God will continue to judge the earth until there are no wicked
men or women left. The time of Jacob's trouble has begun. Jacob's trouble will fall most heavily on His
people who fight Him, or ignore Him. It is time for those who love God to get out of the way of God's
wrath, it will fall most heavily on the cities, as in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah; "for the land is full of
bloody crimes, and the city is full of violence." (Ez. 7:23).

Amo Paul Bishop Roden
THE JUDGMENTS OF EZEKIEL 7
Revised

There's sutff in there that goes down to the detail of shaved heads and emaciated stomachs... after a previous dispersion of the jewish people all over the world... which will then lead to the remaking of Israel in 1948.
 
Kochman, where in the OT prophecies does it mention the Holocaust? I'm willing to take anything more specific than "In the future, bad stuff will happen" level of prophecies.
What, that's not enough for you? Pedant.
 
There's sutff in there that goes down to the detail of shaved heads and emaciated stomachs... after a previous dispersion of the jewish people all over the world... which will then lead to the remaking of Israel in 1948.
Not to be crass, but any fool can predict the past. I skimmed the last part, so if I missed anything critical feel free to point it out to me. However, all I read were variations on 'bad stuff will happen in the future and your money won't help you'. I mean, I detected not one refrence to Germany, Nazis, or the 20th century. The closest they came to mentioning concentration camps was describing places of pain. (Which can be almost anything. The last half hour of calc definately was a place of pain.) The passages the author selected were broad enough to refer to anything he could have felt like. It is not a very sound prophecy when it can refer to the Diaspora, the Italian ghettoes, the exile from Spain, the exile from France, the Polish ghettoes, the Pale, or any number of events. Now, if the author of this piece had written before the Holocaust then that would be rather impressive. However, he didn't.
 
Here it is.
The least you can do is provide proper accreditation:

http://www.amoroden.com/

"Legal Self-Help in Satan's Courts" and "God Help Us, The Man Is A Marxist", the latter referring to Barack Obama, are particularly good reads.

The Wiki article about her provides some more interesting insights:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amo_Bishop_Roden

Amo and George Roden married in October 1987, shortly after meeting. (Since George's divorce from his wife Carmen would not be finalized until February 28, 1998, her detractors question the legitimacy of their common law arrangement.) George, son of Branch Davidian founders Benjamin and Lois Roden, claimed leadership of the sect, but faced challengers, including David Koresh (then named Vernon Howell). Just weeks later, Koresh led a band of followers onto Mt. Carmel, ending up in a shootout with George. The next year, Koresh's supporters reclaimed Mt. Carmel and expelled Amo. Her brief time with George left her pregnant with their daughter.

The standoff with the government five years later decimated Koresh's group, giving Amo the opportunity to move onto the Mt. Carmel grounds. In November 1994, she had an armed standoff with a group that included future militia figure Ron Cole. The legal case between her and surviving Koresh loyalists is still being fought in the courts, but has taken a twist following the recent takeover of the site by Charles Pace, another Branch Davidian leader.

Amo Roden also drew attention in 2001, when she drove to the Oklahoma City bombing memorial site in her pickup truck with Branch Davidian slogans, creating a brief bomb scare. Her notoriety has also been spread by the Electronica group Boards of Canada. Their 2000 EP, In a Beautiful Place Out in the Country, is named after a quote from her; besides the title track, it features the song "Amo Bishop Roden." In addition, on their 2002 album Geogaddi, the song "1969" includes a vocoded sample referring to Roden: "although not a follower of [David Koresh played backwards], she's a devoted Branch Davidian." Academic James Faubion has also written a book about her, The Shadows and Lights of Waco.
 
Having read a good chunk of that stuff from Ezekiel, I think they're really stretching to even implicate the Jewish rejection of the Messiah as the root cause of all this wailing and gnashing of teeth in the first place. I'm mildly impressed to find that it doesn't come from Revelation, the usual fall-back for (slightly?) hysterical religious 'prophecy'.
 
I think it is safe to say that you can take various passages from the Bible and rationalize anything you want, even the attempted extermination of the Jews in Europe during WWII. After all, various Christians have been rationalizing senseless violence against Jews for centuries now:

http://www.adl.org/Interfaith/passion_theology.asp

The central narrative of Christian theology is the passion, i.e. the trials and crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus. There are four different accounts of the passion in the gospels of Christian Scriptures, in which Jews play different roles. All these accounts culminate in the death and resurrection of Jesus as revealing God's saving power available to humanity. Good Friday and Easter celebrate respectively the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus as the high points of Christian creed and experience. Christians frequently present dramatic representations of this narrative known as "passion plays."

Because much of Christian Scriptures were written in polemical style that often portrayed Jews and Jesus--and therefore Judaism and Christianity--as adversaries, a common interpretation of the crucifixion was that the Jewish people were responsible for killing Jesus. According to this interpretation, both the Jews at the time of Jesus and the Jewish people for all time bear a divine curse for the sin of deicide. Throughout nearly 1900 years of Christian-Jewish history, the charge of deicide has led to hatred and violence against Jews of Europe and America, and various forms of anti-Semitic expression. Historically, Holy Week (the week leading up to Easter Sunday) was a period when Jews were most vulnerable and when Christians perpetrated some of the worst violence against their Jewish neighbors.

In 1965 at the Second Vatican Council in Rome, the Roman Catholic Church took formal steps to correct this interpretation of the passion. In its document, Nostra Aetate, the Church officially repudiated both the deicide charge and all forms of anti-Semitism. Most Protestant churches followed suit, and since 1965 many Christians have worked cooperatively with Jews to correct anti-Semitic interpretations of within Christian theology. Understanding the influential role that passion plays have exercised in the spread of anti-Semitism, the Catholic Church today urges great caution in all dramatic presentations of the passion to ensure that they not furnish any impetus for anti-Semitic attitude or behavior.

In 1988, the United States (Catholic) Bishops Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs issued a pamphlet, "Criteria for the Evaluation of Dramatizations of the Passion," which stresses that passion plays must avoid caricatures of Jews and falsely opposing Jews and Jesus. It quotes Pope John Paul II's statement that, "Catholic teaching should aim to present Jews and Judaism in an honest and objective manner, free from prejudices and without and offenses." The pamphlet concludes that correct Catholic teaching of the passion is one that portrays Jews accurately, sensitively and positively, because "the Church and the Jewish people are linked together essentially on the level of identity."
 
Of course. People have been doing that for 1800+ years after all.
 
One would think that a vengeful and hateful god would have at least smitten the Nazis for perpetuating the Holocaust against his chosen people.

Well, if it wasn't prophecies as a punishment for rejecting Christ... but you'd surely already know that... since it has been posted here many times already.

Ok, now we've got all that behind us, I wonder if you and CH have thought about the implications of this. There's a few of them.

a. The Holocaust as punishment from God would mean the Nazi's doing God's work. God has to be an active party, otherwise it can't be it's punishment. Hitler just did God's work. He and the other Nazis cannot be blamed for the holocaust. How could they prevent a divine prophecy from becoming reality? They still can be blamed for trying to have their holiday locations closer to home of course, but just not for the holocaust.

b. The Jews who apparently justly died (as was explained to me in other threads, God's actions by definition are rightful, just like my sorry arse ending up in hell is) were just as responsible for Christ's demise as their ancestors.

So, barring all objections I might have towards the validity of prophecies, believing in them should make one a little sick in one's stomach.
 
I know this is the "Blame" a Christian thread, not the "Ask" a Christian thread, but hear me out anyway. I'm trying to settle a debate with a friend, and I seem to remember that there's a certain bible verse that says no man can predict the date the world will end. But I can't for the life of me seem to find it. Could one of you gentlemen help me locate this verse? Does it even exist?
 
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