The Axemen Rush

[jahsoldier]

OK, I've been playing for a couple of months now, I can usually win on Noble and I'm thinking of movin' on up to Prince. I'm just wondering about how this 'axemen rush' I often hear about on these boards actually works. Normally I spend my time fairly peacefully up until the Mediaeval era, when I start attacking whoever's near and weaker than me.

How many do I need? I've tried with about 4 or 5 axemen, pumped out as early as I can (usually with a combo of whipping and chopping), but I still usually can't take my neighbour's cities with them and the resource expenditure leaves me crippled for the time afterwards. Do I build them up as a stack, then send them over, or send the first one trotting off as soon as he's born? How soon do I need to do it? I'm guessing it needs to be very early, before the opponent's discovered archery, but just can't seem to pull it off.

 

[myclan]

I think if you research bronze working directly in the beginning, and discover copper nearby, you can train about 4-5 axeman very quickly. Then declare war on one opponet, especially the one even don't have a archer, you can take their city very easily. If they do have archers, it's also not a big problem. 4 Axeman with the promotion of CR can usually beat 2 archers.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Review The Early Rush, then ask more specific questions.

 

[tycoonist]

on higher levels, ou have to throw everything you have into an axe rush. all production goes to axes. on immortal, i like to bring at least 8 axes against a non-protective civ

 

[Gliese 581]

Yeah minimum 8 axes on immortal, preferably 10 or so. I don't know about prince.

 

[batavier]

Yeah minimum 8 axes on immortal, preferably 10 or so. I don't know about prince.

If you can strike quickly on prince you can walk in with 2 axemen and find warriors. If you have to wait to connect a second city, you might find 3-4 archers if you hit and about 8 axes would still be required. (more if protective or
on a hill). If you are to weak to take the capital you can still take everything else, and make peace. This would be much harder on immortal because there will likely be 4 cities before you attack, and more settled before you're ready.

 

[Molon Labe]

OK, I've been playing for a couple of months now, I can usually win on Noble and I'm thinking of movin' on up to Prince. I'm just wondering about how this 'axemen rush' I often hear about on these boards actually works. Normally I spend my time fairly peacefully up until the Mediaeval era, when I start attacking whoever's near and weaker than me.

As has been pointed out, read the Axe Rush article. As you move up in levels, your opponents won't afford you the luxury of waiting until the Medieval era to attack.

How many do I need? I've tried with about 4 or 5 axemen, pumped out as early as I can (usually with a combo of whipping and chopping), but I still usually can't take my neighbour's cities with them and the resource expenditure leaves me crippled for the time afterwards.

That should tell you more than 4 or 5. Keep trying and you'll get the hang of it. It depends on a lot of factors, the time, the opponent, the land, the resources etc. As a really rough rule of thumb, I would feel comfortable sending 8 axes off on Monarch. On Emperor, I would add two. You can get by with less in certain situations, but if you're learning, throw two or three more axes in then you originally think.

Do I build them up as a stack, then send them over, or send the first one trotting off as soon as he's born? How soon do I need to do it? I'm guessing it needs to be very early, before the opponent's discovered archery, but just can't seem to pull it off.

A trickle of axemen will die. A horde of axemen will be a scourge. You need to do it early. This is one rush where the word 'rush' is operative. At noble/prince the AI doesn't start with archery but unless you start with mining and pop a goody hut for bronze working, it's unlikely your horde of axemen will arrive before an archer appears.

The trick is to bring enough axemen to kill all those archers. Try it a few times and you'll get the hang of it. A second capital very early will change your game.

 

[TabascoBob]

Review The Early Rush, then ask more specific questions.

Sisutil's article is outstanding. My first win on Prince was after I read the article and played Gilgamesh for the first time (I know, talk about stacking the deck...) With Izzy and Hatty as my immediate neighbors and Zara lurking just beyond, I was able to (IIRC) rush after building 2 cities. I had 5 CR I Axes, 1 CI Spear, 2 FII Chariots, 2 DI Archers and 2 Warriors (1 CI Medic, one with Cover). It was a early to mid-BC: Izzy had just put down a 3rd city with a single unit for defense. The first rush knocked out Izzy, gave me a great new City and a nice launching pad for the next rush.

I took a break in the second rush to extract all of Hatty's techs in exchange for peace, then at 10 turns DoW'd to take her last city. By then it was too late to rush Zara, he had Vassalage and Longbows, but I had accomplished much with the Axe Rush: I controlled the whole landmass we formerly shared, and with Gilgamesh's UB I was able to quickly recover economically.

When Zara tried to infiltrate with Settlers and CGI Longbows, I DoW's before they could set up shop, and settled into a nice mid-game war. Most of my CRII Vultures ultimately became CRIII Maces.

 

[JTMacc99]

Not only is that article outstanding, but the man himself is about to put on an immortal level Axe Rush demonstration in ALC #25. Well, I assume he is. The copper is there. The right kind of leader characteristic (X2) is there. The very clear reason to do it is there. The only reasons to even think twice are that the target is going to have promoted archers, and that his civ has a swordsman UU that might be worth waiting for.

 

[MkLh]

OK, I've been playing for a couple of months now, I can usually win on Noble and I'm thinking of movin' on up to Prince. I'm just wondering about how this 'axemen rush' I often hear about on these boards actually works. Normally I spend my time fairly peacefully up until the Mediaeval era, when I start attacking whoever's near and weaker than me.

How many do I need? I've tried with about 4 or 5 axemen, pumped out as early as I can (usually with a combo of whipping and chopping), but I still usually can't take my neighbour's cities with them and the resource expenditure leaves me crippled for the time afterwards. Do I build them up as a stack, then send them over, or send the first one trotting off as soon as he's born? How soon do I need to do it? I'm guessing it needs to be very early, before the opponent's discovered archery, but just can't seem to pull it off.

Rushing with axes assumes opponent already has archery. Otherwise it's a huge wasting. If the opponent only has warriors, it's much more efficient to attack with warriors. If you build 5-7 warriors right from the start and attack the nearest opponent, you can have one opponent destroyed and a second city as cheap as by building a settler. This only works on prince and below, in higher levels AI starts with archers.

 

[jahsoldier]

read that guide which was very helpful, rolled Ragnar's 2 cities pretty quickly as Gilgamesh with 8 Vultures though I could probably have done it with about 6. thanks, magic jesus!

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

Slavery can help quite a bit with an axeman rush. Using the whip, you can build 2 axemen in as little as 3 turns in any city that has 2 population to whip.

Put 1 turn and less than 5 hammers (adjust hammer costs for game speed if you play Epic / Marathon) into an axeman. Whip on turn 2 for 2 population and 60 hammers. This finishes the first axeman and gives you an overflow of 26-29 hammers to start another axeman on turn 3. Finish the 2nd axeman with regular hammers on turn(s) 4+, depending on your production.

I usually like to have 6-8 axemen for a rush, depending on what I think they'll be facing. The whip can be either a quick way to finish the last few units before you attack, or alternatively it can be a quick way to build up the reinforcements you'll need to replenish the losses you take during the first battle.

 

[madscientist]

A successful Axe-rush depends on several things

1) Is copper in teh capital BFC or do you need a second city. Copper on a river in the capital BFC is alot different from copper that's a decent distance away.

2) Are you an Aggressive leader? Then you can build a fast barracks first and probably need a few less axes. Take mostly CR promotions although 1 shock promoted axe helps alot.

3) What are your starting techs??? Mining is the best, the wheel next. Remember to built a fast/good army of axes you need good food to work some production..

4) Are you planning to attack a protective leader? You will definitely need more axes.

5) Is the enemy capital on a hill (better defense), or behind river (1 more turn to get on teh same side or suffer another 25% defensive benefit). Not always known but can be often guessed.

6) Consider the culture of the city. A high culture probably means a holy city or early wonder. Bad and good, the culture adds defense but the enemy has neglected military.

7) Bring along a spear if you can9means teching hunting), chariots are a nasty surprise against a stack of axes.

8) Speed and surpirse are an issue, figure out the fastest route from the borders to the city. Don't take 3-4 turns when 2 turns would be possible by repositioning before attacking.


9) Surviving axemen and dead axemen are both good providing you capture your goal. A surviving axeman is a valued experienced veteran, and a dead one is cheaper upkeep.


So in a nutshell, 1 shock axe, 1 Spear, the rest as many CR axes as you can create in a decent amount of time.



One more comment about additional supplemental troops


1) Chariots are useful but not essential. Their speed is lost in teh stack because of the axes but are decent at picking off stray axemen, blocking routes for reinforcementsm, or pillaging vital resources.

2) HAs make excellent city attackers, especially with flanking II promotions. If you have horses already (very possible from AH) horsebackriding may be preferable to Iron Working to tech as you will not have to settle/mine/road an iron source.

3) With #2 said, Swords make the best city attackers pre-Macemen. Sometimes waiting on an axe-rush to add swords may be preferable.

4) If you are looking at a tough nut, it may be worthwhile to wait for Catapults. Frankly, attacking a protective leader, Mansa, Sitting Bull, or Hammarabi early on may not be worth it.

 

[oyzar]

Not only is that article outstanding, but the man himself is about to put on an immortal level Axe Rush demonstration in ALC #25. Well, I assume he is. The copper is there. The right kind of leader characteristic (X2) is there. The very clear reason to do it is there. The only reasons to even think twice are that the target is going to have promoted archers, and that his civ has a swordsman UU that might be worth waiting for.

A swordsman UU that require copper.. he can easily get IW before he will rush anyways...

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

2) Are you an Aggressive leader? Then you can build a fast barracks first and probably need a few less axes. Take mostly CR promotions although 1 shock promoted axe helps alot.

If your leader is Aggressive, Cover is also a nice promotion that often gets less credit than it deserves. City Raider I gives you +20%, Cover gives you +25%.

If your enemy has copper and/or has had time to make a diverse force of defenders that includes the occasional axeman, then City Raider is usually better, because it's a general purpose promotion that works against any defender. On the other hand, if you're facing exclusively or primarily archers, Cover might be better. You need to evaluate the situation and decide based on what you see.

Cover might be a little shortsighted, since the survivors will eventually be upgraded and will hopefully face non-archery units, but realistically, during a rush most of your axemen are expected to die in battle. They might as well die valiantly. And those who do survive can add the City Raider line to their promotions. A Cover / City Raider II or III axeman vs. an archer is an awesome sight to behold.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If your leader is Aggressive, Cover is also a nice promotion that often gets less credit than it deserves. City Raider I gives you +20%, Cover gives you +25%.

If your enemy has copper and/or has had time to make a diverse force of defenders that includes the occasional axeman, then City Raider is usually better, because it's a general purpose promotion that works against any defender. On the other hand, if you're facing exclusively or primarily archers, Cover might be better. You need to evaluate the situation and decide based on what you see.

Cover might be a little shortsighted, since the survivors will eventually be upgraded and will hopefully face non-archery units, but realistically, during a rush most of your axemen are expected to die in battle. They might as well die valiantly. And those who do survive can add the City Raider line to their promotions. A Cover / City Raider II or III axeman vs. an archer is an awesome sight to behold.

If you wait to promote city attackers until you get there, this problem is solved. When attacking archers at low odds, you use cover, else CR. Just be sure to promote enough units to not get attacked en-route, and you have optimized promos every time by waiting, not to mention the potential for some cheese healing.

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

If you wait to promote city attackers until you get there, this problem is solved. When attacking archers at low odds, you use cover, else CR. Just be sure to promote enough units to not get attacked en-route, and you have optimized promos every time by waiting, not to mention the potential for some cheese healing.

Yup. I always do that. IMHO the cheese healing is arguably the best reason to delay.