The Bible and Us!?

[Dralix]

Originally posted by philippe
because we are never told to.
When a person is teached that the bible is the word of God he believes so and will not easily change that.
...

So out of this example we can see that religion is teached and is a easy way to manipulate poeple.

When we are young, this is often the case. Often times, as one gets older, they begin to question their faith. Instead of simply believing things because they were taught to, people start to examine themselves and ask if they really believe or not. The result is either a loss of faith, or strengthening of faith, or perhaps even a new faith. This perfectly natural, and very healthy, imho.

 

[floppa21]

I don't think as many people question their faith as you think Dralix...

 

[TedG]

Originally posted by MrPresident
This is the completely wrong way to look at it. You don't go into court thinking a person is guilty unless they are be proved so. The same goes for the bible. It is fiction until proven true.

What I meant was that I believe that the events/miracles in the bible are true and were the acts of God, and it would take some drastic proof that those things didn't happen, in order to change my belief. That's different than believing a person in a court case is innocent or guilty - in that case you need sufficient evidence to prove it either way in order for it to be a fair trial. Believing in the Bible (in its entirety) is completely different because it's a matter of faith, meaning you can believe in it even if it hasn't been proven to be true in its entirety.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by TedG
What I meant was that I believe that the events/miracles in the bible are true and were the acts of God, and it would take some drastic proof that those things didn't happen, in order to change my belief. That's different than believing a person in a court case is innocent or guilty - in that case you need sufficient evidence to prove it either way in order for it to be a fair trial. Believing in the Bible (in its entirety) is completely different because it's a matter of faith, meaning you can believe in it even if it hasn't been proven to be true in its entirety.

But then the question remains where that faith comes from. What makes you believe in it, although from an empiric or logical point of view it doesn't make much sense (for example creation)?

 

[TedG]

Originally posted by Hitro

But then the question remains where that faith comes from. What makes you believe in it, although from an empiric or logical point of view it doesn't make much sense (for example creation)?

My faith and my belief in God make me believe it. The fact that parts of the Bible have been specifically proven to have actually happened only reinforces my belief. Creation makes plenty of sense, at least to me. "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth." It makes a lot more sense than evolution (although I do believe in parts of evolution, but not the part about one creature changing into a completely different one and that humans came from apes). Pretty much anything in the Bible, whether proven to be actual history or not, can be explained by one's belief that there is a God (although that doesn't mean that there still won't be confusion about certain things). And of course it won't make sense if you don't believe in God, or believe in another kind of god (or multiple gods).

 

[Hitro]

Okay, your explanation makes sense in itself of course.
But doesn't that mean that a believe in God in the Christian way would theoretically make you believe anything, no matter how senseless, as long as it is presented as the 'word of God'?

 

[Trabpukcip]

Ok then what about dinosaurs? do you beleave they existed?

and how can you say that there are events in the bibles that are proven and don't beleive in all evoltion even if it is proven??? :roll:

 

[TedG]

Yes, I believe dinosaurs existed (and were, of course, created by God, who created animals).

And evolution has NOT been proven. That's why it's called the theory of evolution.

 

[floppa21]

So Jesus Christ can be grouped in with the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Santa Claus?

It is BLIND faith. I can't understand how anyone can have blind faith in something so fantastical without "sufficient evidence"... We don't believe in Santa because we 'learned' he is not real when we grew up. Does one need to 'learn' Jesus is not real to shake this blind faith?

 

[TedG]

Originally posted by Hitro
Okay, your explanation makes sense in itself of course.
But doesn't that mean that a believe in God in the Christian way would theoretically make you believe anything, no matter how senseless, as long as it is presented as the 'word of God'?

I'm not sure what you mean by "anything" but in the Bible, some things you might simply believe to be what God did, even if there's no actual explanation as to why things happened the way they did. So I'm not saying everything in the Bible can be explained, but if you believe in God in the Christian way, you pretty much believe that everything that is written in the Bible is true.

 

[Trabpukcip]

If you beleive it's just a theory then you're a blind foul, sorry but evolution is just true. What do you think those archealogist are doing all day??? they are proving it.

 

[floppa21]

Originally posted by TedG

Pretty much anything in the Bible, whether proven to be actual history or not, can be explained by one's belief that there is a God (although that doesn't mean that there still won't be confusion about certain things). ).

Hmm...

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by Trabpukcip

-God say in the beggining of Genesis that man became like him since he knew what was good and what was bad... if mankind has this knowledge then why does god has to give them rules of conduct. This statement said that the judgement of humans has the same value as his own judgement...

This is confusing. I don't know exactly what you're talking about.

-It is clear that god didn't create all human becose when Cain got exiled he encontered other peoples before Adam and Eve had any other children???

Doesn't mean He didn't create them, just means he didn't tell us He created them.

-Another one interesting is that the pope Pie IX declared that Marie was a virgin, before that it was clear in everyones mind that Joseph and Marie had Jesus the old fashion way... and also... Jesus had brothers and sisters...

I've never heard of a Pope Pie. But I don't know what a Pope necessarily has to do with the Bible.

I could continue nearly undefinetly but I have a life... so what do you think of that?

*shrug*


Also, "behemoths" are mentioned in the Bible. These could be dinosaurs. Of course, they could be hippos, so we don't know, but I wouldn't discount it just yet.

 

[TedG]

Originally posted by Trabpukcip
If you beleive it's just a theory then you're a blind foul, sorry but evolution is just true. What do you think those archealogist are doing all day??? they are proving it.

It IS still a theory which hasn't been proven. And I did say that I believe in certain aspects of it. Specifically, I believe in "survival of the fittest" (only the strong survive, the weak die off, and you get a stronger species) but not "change into something entirely different to adapt to your environment." When I see a change in humans so that everyone is born with a third arm to be able to do more things at once - then I'll believe in evolution. But I don't see that ever happening. Even if you don't believe in creation, evolution is still pretty ridiculous. Even if you DO believe in evolution, then I ask you this: "then where did the first unevolved living creatures come from?"

I don't know about your ancestors, but mine didn't swing from a tree.

 

[Trabpukcip]

Originally posted by Becka


This is confusing. I don't know exactly what you're talking about.

Genesis 3.22


and for the rest of your arguments, well I find them questionnable since they don't tend to prove god's existence but instead they take it for granted.

and Pope argument was meant has a exemple that faith is forged by the church and by god

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by TedG
but not "change into something entirely different to adapt to your environment." When I see a change in humans so that everyone is born with a third arm to be able to do more things at once - then I'll believe in evolution.

Evolution is a slow process, that's why people don't suddenly have third arms, it's no revolution.
"Change into something to adapt to your environment" is as far as I know not included in the theory. It's just that the random mutations survive that fit the environment, but they don't happen on purpose.

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by Trabpukcip
and for the rest of your arguments, well I find them questionnable since they don't tend to prove god's existence but instead they take it for granted.

I wasn't exactly trying to prove God's existance. I was countering your arguments.

and Pope argument was meant has a exemple that faith is forged by the church and by god

Well, let's just say there are reasons I'm not Catholic.

And as for calling people who don't believe in evolution blind fools, well, let's just say that's a very unkind thing to say.

 

[TedG]

Originally posted by Hitro

Evolution is a slow process, that's why people don't suddenly have third arms, it's no revolution.
"Change into something to adapt to your environment" is as far as I know not included in the theory. It's just that the random mutations survive that fit the environment, but they don't happen on purpose.

Then why do they claim that birds evolved from reptiles? And how could there be enough random mutations in order to have enough birds to reproduce into more birds, etc.?

EDIT: Typos

 

[philippe]

look tedg. The evolution thoery is proven.
They also proofed Birds came from dino's
150 million years ago there was this dino with feathers who could barely fly.(there where no birds then or else they would find it.)
Over the millions that feather dino could fly a bit.
It further evolves and evolves until its fully capable of flying.(again found proof) thx to that.birds exist.
Why would god make dino's with feathers who could barely fly?
It doesnt make sense.
And with that you come to the thoery of evolution.

 

[philippe]

The succesful mutations pass on their genes.
Its all in the GENES man DNA and stuff like that....