Dachs refuses to use Anglicisations, much as I refuse to use public toilets.
The Byzantine empire
- Thread starter Kyriakos
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Mathalamus
Emperor of Mathalia
does anyone know what the Byzantine name for Ankara is? i jsut want to see if its viable as a modern name.
Mathalamus
Emperor of Mathalia
Ankyra.Spelled Ἄγκυρα.
that name looks hard to pronounce. Ankara is a better name right?
It's not very hard to pronounce. IPA is /ankyra/, which sounds like "an-kü-ra". The ü is like in German and the r is trilled. I think. Anyway, it's not that difficult and there's zero reason for it to be called anything else.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
Ankyra.
With a gamma? Then why do we pronounce it as nu?
The "ng" sound is spelled with a gamma in Greek. As in many languages, in Greek, /n/ is allophonically /ŋ/ (the "ng" sound) before velar consonants (k, g)
Or to put it more simply, double Ks or Gs in Greek are pronounced "nk" or "ng", and when Latinised or anglicised they are transliterated "nk" or "ng" to reflect this pronunciation. "Angel" is probably the most familiar example (a double gamma in Greek).
Hence Angora.Ankyra (Agkyra- Άγκυραis pronounced as An-gi-ra, gi as in gimmick
It means anchor btw.
Mathalamus
Emperor of Mathalia
ah, it really is angora. ill use that name instead. ( i thought it was some other town..occupying the same space...)
Angora hasn't been used for centuries, I'd go with Ankara if I were you.
Mathalamus
Emperor of Mathalia
might as well. ankara sounds modern Anyway
does Ankara (or angora or whatever) occupy a strategic position? its almost directly in the way to Constantinople, kinda like Adrianople.
does Ankara (or angora or whatever) occupy a strategic position? its almost directly in the way to Constantinople, kinda like Adrianople.
I don't know that much about the geography of Turkey, but I believe Ankara's central location on the Anatolian plateau makes it an ideal staging area for attacks upon the coastal areas, and the nearby mountainous terrain makes it easily defensible. Still, this is just a guess, based mostly on the Civ II WWII scenario map. As I said, I don't know that much about Turkish geography.
Ankyra/Ankara wasn't very important until the 19th and 20th centuries TBH. It really took off in the twentieth century, not because it was important for trade routes and such, but because it was relatively inaccessible for the various powers attacking the Turkish Nationalists in the 1919-22 wars. It stayed the capital because everybody was already there and because it didn't have the bad connotations of İstanbul.
Anatolian cities of vastly greater import to the Byzantines include Ikonion, Amorion, Kaisareia, Ephesos, Smyrna, Nikaia, Brusa, and Trebizond.
Anatolian cities of vastly greater import to the Byzantines include Ikonion, Amorion, Kaisareia, Ephesos, Smyrna, Nikaia, Brusa, and Trebizond.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
Its more the other way around. The interior plateau has always proven difficult to control, with the coastal areas being easier to conquer (or at least to hold on to).
Ankyra (Agkyra- Άγκυρα
It means anchor btw.
That's how it's pronounced in modern Greek, not in Byzantine Greek or Ancient Greek; voiceless stops being voiced after nasals is a novelty; and in addition the [y] was rounded during the first millennium (As Dachs said, ü), hence IPA /y/. Also, I highly doubt that you mean your gimmick example, considering that the vowel quality of the i in gimmick in English is /ɪ/, a sound that does not occur in Greek.
Mathalamus
Emperor of Mathalia
im gonna list these cities and why they cant be a secondary capital and/or a strategic area.
Konya is a bit too far south. Amorion is in ruins so i used the nearest city, still a bit too south. Ephesus is way to close to the coast, and is vulnerable to attack. Izmir is the same. Nikaia is not a suitable major city, Athens is a major city. Nicaea is too close to Constantinople. Trebizond is on the coast.
i chose Ankara because it is in a Central is location, not too close or far from the Capital, easily defensible and right in the middle of Anatolia, so its kinda hard for people to attack it, except by nukes or long range bombers.
and judging from the map, it sems to be the main route to Constantinople from anatolia. its like Smolensk is the main route to Moscow.
sorry everyone i'm dead tired.
In order:
Too far south for what?
In ruins due to events that happened after the PoD. Surely the raid of 838 didn't happen in TTL, did it?
Coastal cities are also main trade arteries, and they aren't that vulnerable to attack. It's damned hard to make an amphibious landing in the real world.
You mentioned Nikaia three times; it is a suitable major city, and I don't understand your coastal objections.
Trebizond being on the coasts doesn't make sense as an objection. Presumably the Byzantines would have a half-decent navy?
You also didn't say anything about Kaisareia.
Why are you switching the capital anyway? The Byzantine state was insanely top-heavy in terms of Constantinopolitan importance. You lose that city, you damn near lose the state and society, whether you're just 'moving the capital' on a lark or being pushed out by attack. Few other societies come as near to collapse as the Byzantines did in the OTL Fourth Crusade when Constantinople fell, and it was chiefly due to the total lack of interest by the Latins in pursuing policies agreeable to the Byzantines and to their great deficiencies in military power (the expedition was frickin' miniscule) that Byzantine society survived the first years of the Frangokratia at all.
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