The Capo's Units Thread

[The Capo]

Nice.

I remember someone got "scolded" by the mods for posting images of a female unit who was topless, hopefully I don't get in trouble for this, but I took some advice and this is what I have so far. These images are from Blender:

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I was loosely basing him on the naked guy from this picture by the way:

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I added a scabbard for the sword, I also edited the belt so it hangs a bit more naturally. Speaking of hanging more naturally I started to texture the penis (it needs a bit more work) and edited the thighs a bit. I think it is starting to come together pretty nicely. Any more suggestions and ideas?

Also, since I have this nude model ready to go, what other cultures should I make nude warriors for? I was also considering creating a "slave" unit with the nude model as well. What is everyone's thoughts on that? So basically I just want a few more suggestions, and again maybe some help on the shield and sword. I also want some suggestions on what other cultures to make nude warriors for, and finally thoughts on creating some slave units.

TO THE MODERATORS: If this is an issue, please let me know and please do not ban me or anything like that. It would be ridiculous to do so and I think we can all agree ahead of time it would cause an uproar within the community. I am not being vulgar at all with this, and I don't think anyone else in their right minds could consider this vulgar. Just want to nip this in the bud.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Honestly, off the top of my head, maybe Amazonian tribes like the Tupi, the Huastecs(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huastec_people), various other Celts, all have naked warriors.

And I agree, this is for historical, or artistic purposes. I vouch for you.

 

[Keinpferd]

The changes look good! In the scale of the game, this should be a convincing penis. More feedback:

The beard should slightly move down one or two fingers wide down from nose to chin. Maybe the brightness could be toned down, too? The beard will be looking more part of the body, if you add more shadows, like you did under the guy's ears. The shadow thrown by the nose should be as dark as in the illustrator's picture. The bottom of the mustache, the mouth area, should be a pretty much shadowed area in the shape of an upside down sickle, if you know what I mean. Also, the beard would throw a shadow on the front part of the guy's neck.

About the helmet: They must have had a variety of shapes from the Celtic tribes in Britain all the way to the Galatians in Turkey. To me, this one represents sort of the classic Gaul helmet most (and that's probably what the illustrator had in mind):



However, the helm bush is pure artistic freedom by the illustrator, because these horse hair or bird feathers made things decay, and archaelogists don't find any of that. You can claim the same artistic freedom for yourself, too.

Are you planning a naked axeman, too? In the old RTW, "Naked Fanatics", as they called them, were axemen, while in the new, they carry sword and shield.

 

[The Capo]

Yeah, the helmet I was going to change up. And as far as the beard/head/face went I was probably going to change that a little bit. If I made naked soldiers for various Celtic groups (in my mod the Spanish, Portuguese, English and of course Celts have Celtic ancient units) I would have different helmets for each one, and some would have differing body skins (tattoos, paint, body hair, etc.) just to keep it more interesting. Right now this is just a prototype so to speak.

I know the Greeks and some African tribes had warriors go into battle completely naked. I am sure the same would be found for many other civilizations if I looked into it more. So the model I have basically has no head to make it easier to swap around.

As far as the weaponry goes, for now I was just going to make this guy a swordsman, but it would be quite easy to give him a spear or axe, or whatever weapon really.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

No appearance by any modders so far. A Good sign.

 

[The Capo]

It certainly is, maybe the mods are a bit more liberal now a days. Who knows. Or they're waiting to strike when I start pumping out nude units en masse.

Not that I will... I might... I probably will... maybe...

But ultimately I just have to get myself back on track. I think once this guy is done (by the way there are a few other Celts that go with him I have created, I just figured this one would be the most interesting to discuss), I will finish the Babylonians, the issue with Babylon is creating a medieval set for them when there was no actual medieval period to speak of. So it takes some creativity here. We shall see.

EDIT: So if Celts went into battle naked to show that they had no fear, did the naked guy in my picture consider the other two guys p****s?

EDIT 2: That could have been the word "punks" I edited... so who knows...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I love alternate history because of the creativity it allows you for that very reason.

A medieval Babylon would be really something to see I think because of some of the real world developments with warfare, at least in Europe.

The idea of Heraldry, the colorful gear the knights wore in Europe having a Babylonian equaliviant..well you get the picture.

Maybe soldiers could take on the art of the gates of Ishtar or hanging gardens as a style of armor. The winged lion was the symbol of Babylon, maybe they could develop something like Poland's winged hussars, with helmuts resembling lions and a vivid blue, red and gold color scheme.

Celts: If Celts went into battle naked to show courage than if two naked warriors fought what would be the measure of superior courage?(ok I'm getting into bad territory now )

 

[The Capo]

Usually what I try to do with Medieval eras for civs that didn't have a medieval era or at least exist in one is to use units/armor they did have but kinda tweak it so it fits Civ's schematic for the units. So what I was thinking of doing was looking for good examples of more heavily armored units for the civ.

So for example, I could use this image here:

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...and use the spearman in the image as the Babylonian Pikeman. Or use this guy as the Babylonian Longbowman:

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Of course in doing so I would have artistic license to make the unit a bit more gawdy. I do like your idea of making a Winged-hussar type unit for their Knight. That is a great idea and a lot of Babylonian art does depict their gods as men with wings. This would be a really cool homage to this, and I could see the highest of nobles wearing wings to emulate the gods themselves. I think I might have to take that into consideration.

Another tactic I use sometimes is to look for mods in other games (mostly the total war series) and see what they've done. In this instance I found a few images I could use for Babylon's medieval era. Here are two examples:

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From here I could create Longbowmen, Pikemen, or even Macemen. So there is a lot to work with, I just need to consider how they would look and also consider other similar civilizations (in this case Assyria) and how I would make them look so they would differ in appearance from their Babylonian rivals. It is time consuming, and difficult, but ultimately it is fun and I do take a lot of pride in creating these units.

EDIT: So just so everybody knows what I plan on doing soon is releasing the Babylonian ancient and medieval set, along with my new ancient English set. I might throw in a few "extra" units. I am considering making a Philistine set of units as well, but it would only be a swordsman, spearman and archer. In my mod I use them as barbarian units (i.e. when the game says there is an army of philistines that have amassed and "we will likely take the brunt of the fury" or whatever, instead of generic units appearing in my mod they actually look like philistines) that are flavored to make the game a bit more realistic and fun. Basically they will look like this guy with slight variances:

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[Sword_Of_Geddon]

What I'd do with the Pikeman is maybe give him something that speaks of a refinement or advancement somehow of the Babylonian culture, like maybe increase the importance of the golden belt, and other golden items. Just an idea.

That would be a great longbowman, like you said though more color would seal him as a Babylonian unit.

You could even have high-ranked infantry display wings as well to some degree, kind of like how high-ranked legionnaires in Rome had fancier armor and created helmuts.

Your imagination is the limit.

The Philistines would be an awesome addition. Could probably make one model based on that picture, and make one armed with a sword and shield, exactly like the picture, and just swap out the weapon/equipment for an archer or spearman.

Nobody can say your a cultural Philistine.(bad joke)

 

[The Capo]

I have spent the better part of the evening looking through all of my unit files to start getting ideas for what to do for the medieval-era for Babylon. What I have decided to do is not so much a what-if set, but more like a set of Babylonian units that are more heavily armored using medieval weapons. This way the units would still be useful for modders that are focusing on actual historic mods.

Having said that I have a few more previews. For the Knight unit I am going to create two units. One is going to be their basic Knight (i.e. Heavy Cavalry). So it will be a "regular" heavily armored cavalry unit for Babylon. The second model in the unit-group will be a bit more ornate. I am imagining a Babylonian of Noble stock, what would he wear? What I am thinking of doing is taking the advice on the winged Huszar styled unit (of course with Babylonian-styled wings) and going an extra step. I am going to give him an ornate solid-gold helmet, I saw a lot of medieval-era Middle-Eastern/Central-Asian cavalry units that donned full on masks as part of their helmets. What I contrived was a similar thing but for Babylon, complete with faux hair and beard. I think I will let pictures do it justice:

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The second model there is just a basic "Medieval Babylonian" unit. I am not sure what I am going to use it for, most likely either a Pikeman, Longbowman, or Crossbowman. I just haven't decided that part yet. Just wanted to post an image so you can see what direction I am going in right now.

So to summarize: On the left is an image of the Helmet that the Babylonian "Knight Officer" will be wearing. On the right is a model I will be using for one of the medieval era units. Are we happy? So far so good? I am pretty content with what I have so far. Thoughts?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I really like where your going with this Capo. Another idea, if pure what-if is not acceptable for the majority of medieval units, is not just to give ancient Babylonians medieval type weapons, but also to maybe cross the look of the ancient Babylonians with something from that era and culture(in this case, the Baghdad Islamic Caliphate if I'm remember my history right)

So you would have longbowmen, pikemen etc that had elements of both ancient Babylonian and Medieval Iraqi Arabic.

 

[The Capo]

I really like where your going with this Capo. Another idea, if pure what-if is not acceptable for the majority of medieval units, is not just to give ancient Babylonians medieval type weapons, but also to maybe cross the look of the ancient Babylonians with something from that era and culture(in this case, the Baghdad Islamic Caliphate if I'm remember my history right)

So you would have longbowmen, pikemen etc that had elements of both ancient Babylonian and Medieval Iraqi Arabic.

Well, I am not sure exactly what you mean by "pure what-if." But I am going to try to give them weapons from the same region they inhabited but from the medieval period, so I think we are on the same page here. Basically I am going to try to use actual Babylonian armor/attire, but make it a bit more medieval in appearance (so in a sense they are what-if units).

It is important to keep in mind that, while I have created a lot of units in the past and I am nowhere near a new modder, this is my first real foray into creating units. For the most part I have simply done reskins or simple parts-swaps for my past units. These new units are works of mostly my own design. So this is going to take a lot of time as well as trial-and-error on my part. I have actually attempted to create a "what-if" Hebrew Musketman with horrible results (you will see soon when I post my "HELP ME!" post as soon as I get all the files together). So while they make look really nice right now, they are far from being 100% game-ready. As long as everyone has patience with me I promise to get the best looking units I can make out there.

I was a big fan of Bakuel, and basically his work is my inspiration for a lot of what I am doing. I know he is irreplaceable, but I am going to do my best to try to emulate his attention to detail and skills in the unit-making department. So thanks for the encouragement, it really does help me to keep going. I will try to have previews available as I create them. I too am really pleased with the progress I am making and the look of these units. I hope the medieval set is even better than what I have so far for the ancient era.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

As far as encouragement goes you deserve it. A lot of the steam(pun intended) came out of the Civ4 part of the community initially when CivV arrived, but just like with Civ3 there are still many fans and artists here keeping the game alive.

The point is your trying(and succeeding) in making some awesome stuff. I think it is amazing where trial and error can take you. Just a year ago I myself started experimenting with XML and I have mod now heh.

Still a long way to go though.

 

[The Capo]

Well, I still have a lot to learn. If you are a skilled unit-maker, or at least know the ins and outs better than I do please help me out with my lastest fiasco by CLICKING HERE!

I need to get this unit-making thing down to a science before I continue because then I'd have to go back and do a lot. Fortunately it seems the Babylonians I have made so far do work in-game. Wish me luck.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I will.

 

[The Capo]

I am back from my vacation, so I hope to pump out these Babylonians pretty soon. They will be accompanied by a few smaller projects as well. So keep an eye out for more previews and, eventually, some cool units.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Welcome back Capo. Sorry for the delayed response to your post, been abit busy myself.

Looking forward to seeing what you've been cooking.

 

[The Capo]

Between Tuesday and Thursday I am hoping to have the "first draft" of the final set completed. I think I am going to go a bit beyond the medieval period and create some renaissance and possibly even industrial-era units (so a Cuirassier, Musketman, Grenadier, Cannon, Rifleman, and Cavalry if I am so inclined), hopefully this doesn't create further speedbumps. And if you are out there Keinpferd I will have that "package" ready for you around the same time, so get your part of the bargain together buddy.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

What direction are you thinking of taking Babylon when they discover gunpowder? Military uniforms patterned on the colors of the Gates of Ishtar? Cannons with cuneiform on them?

 

[The Capo]

As far as Babylon's gunpowder-based units I think I am going to start transitioning them towards more of a modern-day Middle-Eastern look. They will still maintain some characteristics of ancient Babylon, but they will start transitioning towards historical garb of that era in the Middle-East. It is difficult to explain but you'll see what I mean when I start getting previews ready.

Speaking of previews, I wanted to get this model up for discussion. This is what I have for the Babylonian Knight right now:

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In the final version this will be the centerpiece model for the whole unit, or what I call the "officer" unit. If you are familiar with my mod you will know that many of my units have two models in them. One meant to represent the commander or officer of the unit and the other two models acting as the regular soldier. So when I am done it will be this model flanked by two other regular Knights. Those will obviously be less ornate.

I do remember you suggesting that I integrate wings into the unit to fit with the Babylonian artwork depicting winged gods. I think there was a mention of the Polish winged-Huszar unit. I had an idea though; there are images showing animals/lions/dragons with wings in Babylonian artwork. I was thinking that, rather than having the Knight have the wings, perhaps I could put some faux wings on the horse. What are your thoughts on that?

And of course some feedback or suggestions on the rider would be appreciated too.

EDIT: Also, what manner of knight should he be? Should he use a sword? An axe? A spear? Maybe even a hammer?