The case of pasteurized milk - or "do governments know better?"

[Masquerouge]

which makes me wonder how it is with cheese produced from raw milk...like most swiss cheeses...is that banned too?

Yes, it is

One of the things I miss most here in the US.

Though to be honest, and more specific, the rule is that raw milk cheeses have to age something like 60 days before they can be sold in California.

 

[Narz]

How dare the government ban something that's extremely harmful!

Except it's not "extremely harmful" dumbass. Educate yourself.

Everyone should be able to kill themselves,

Legalized euthanasia should be a basic human right. Don't see what that has to do with milk though.

and large agribusinesses should be able to kill thousands of people every year because milk that's more inviting to bacteria than Narz's foreskin should be free to sell!

Please get off my dick, Literally. Thanks!

 

[Narz]

Sounds like some people haven't done their research. People who advocate drinking raw milk aren't nutjobs or idiots. There are real benefits. The risks are known and manageable.

What it comes down to is that drinking milk from a healthy cow is perfectly safe. Only when an infected cow gets in the system is there a hazard. That's why country folk are comfortable with drinking raw milk: they know the cows personally and know they aren't sick.

Yes, for city folk at the end of a long supply chain, pasteurization makes sense. As that is the way the vast majority of milk is sold, raw milk will never be more than a niche product. There is no harm to the average consumer in having a way for people who want it to have raw milk.

And considering the state of modern medicine, the consequences of drinking contaminated raw milk aren't anything like as serious as they used to be. Ask yourself this: how many people have died from the recent salmonella outbreak? NONE that I have heard of.

But don't let facts get in the way of your preconceived notions. EVERYBODY PANIC!

Nice post.

 

[MadScotsMan]

Governments don't know better. I have yet to see any proof that raw milk is less safe than pasteurized. Spoilt milk is going to gather bacteria & disease, this goes from raw or previously boiled.

Just another inane restriction of people's freedom. Meanwhile the government subsidizes dozens of foods statistically proven again and again to contribute to premature death & degenerative disease. Go figure.

BTW, raw milk is legal is the progressive US states of Connecticut & California. Recent I think some jerkoffs tried to ban it in Cali but they failed as they couldn't prove it was harmful.

I don't mess with cow's milk myself but I'd definitely choose raw goat or sheep's milk over pasteurized (if I could find it anywhere).

Also, noteworthy, recently the government mandated that all almonds (except those sold at farmer's markets) must be pasteurized before sale. They are still labeled raw to unsuspecting consumers and probably 99% of the population doesn't even know about it.

If you try to sprout them though you will notice they just float in the water & eventually start to go bad rather than swelling up & growing tails.

If you want to be crappin your pants and throwing up every five minutes, drink it that way. Problem with sellin unpasturized milk on the market is that the milk has to travel, and stuff can happen. Make friends with a farmer and buy it directly from them.

 

[Narz]

If you want to be crappin your pants and throwing up every five minutes, drink it that way.

I know lots of people who drink raw milk & never heard of an adverse reaction like that. The companies that sell raw milk are very safe. They know they have to be. One bad reaction & they just might get closed down / go out of business. Whereas is someone gets sick off pasteurized milk it's unlikely to warrant investigation.

Problem with sellin unpasturized milk on the market is that the milk has to travel, and stuff can happen. Make friends with a farmer and buy it directly from them.

That's a good policy anyway.

 

[MadScotsMan]

I know lots of people who drink raw milk & never heard of an adverse reaction like that. The companies that sell raw milk are very safe. They know they have to be. One bad reaction & they just might get closed down / go out of business. Whereas is someone gets sick off pasteurized milk it's unlikely to warrant investigation.


That's a good policy anyway.

you should ask em. Raw has a higher fat and bacteria content, and unless they've been eating only raw food for a while, something happened.

 

[plarq]

I know lots of people who drink raw milk & never heard of an adverse reaction like that. The companies that sell raw milk are very safe. They know they have to be. One bad reaction & they just might get closed down / go out of business. Whereas is someone gets sick off pasteurized milk it's unlikely to warrant investigation.


That's a good policy anyway.

When someone get sick of raw milk, it's probably bacteria infection;

When someone get sick of pasteurized milk, it's probably lactose intolerance.

 

[LesCanadiens]

Except it's not "extremely harmful" dumbass. Educate yourself.


Legalized euthanasia should be a basic human right. Don't see what that has to do with milk though.


Please get off my dick, Literally. Thanks!

Relax, Narz. We all know your rigorous stance in favour of unpasteurized milk draws solely from the fact that you're opposed to anything you perceive to be popular or established and in favour of anything you perceive to be new and against the grain. If unpasteurized milk were the norm, you'd be ranting about how awesome pasteurized milk is and how everyone who opposes it is a fascist cock. If pedophilia were legal, you'd be raving about how awesome middle-aged women are in bed.

 

[lovett]

No, I didn't say you'd be punished for trying to. You are not simply allowed to. There's a difference.

The lack of punishment illustrates how suicide is perfectly legal in most of the western world. IIRC the last US states delisted suicide as a crime in the early 90's.

 

[aelf]

The lack of punishment illustrates how suicide is perfectly legal in most of the western world. IIRC the last US states delisted suicide as a crime in the early 90's.

Nope. That is such a simplistic view on how governance works. Are people who wish to commit scuicide not dissuaded to the best of the government's ability? Even euthanasia for patients who are terminally ill is debated.

Just because there is no penalty doesn't mean it's allowed. It's not necessarily illegal in that sense. It's just not legally allowed.

 

[choxorn]

Except, when it comes to how a person got sick, you can never be sure it was the milk. Perhaps it was the chili, or the double cheeseburger, or some other food.

 

[holy king]

Except, when it comes to how a person got sick, you can never be sure it was the milk. Perhaps it was the chili, or the double cheeseburger, or some other food.

if a lot of people get sick and the only thing all of them have in common is having drunk the milk you can be pretty sure though...

 

[scy12]

I think in the case of protections against infections governments ought to know better. Anything else is criminal against the health of the majority. Unpasteurized milk should be illegal.

 

[Globex]

I think in the case of protections against infections governments ought to know better. Anything else is criminal against the health of the majority. Unpasteurized milk should be illegal.

As nivi pointed out earlier, why does the government choose to ban unpasteurized milk when other products such as tobacco and alcohol are far more harmful and far reaching? The amount of people who actually drink raw milk is relatively small compared to the amount of people who drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes and the amount of people who actually die from drinking raw milk is probably nothing compared to the amount of people who die everyday from alcohol and tobacco.

 

[scy12]

As nivi pointed out earlier, why does the government choose to ban unpasteurized milk when other products such as tobacco and alcohol are far more harmful and far reaching? The amount of people who actually drink raw milk is relatively small compared to the amount of people who drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes and the amount of people who actually die from drinking raw milk is probably nothing compared to the amount of people who die everyday from alcohol and tobacco.

As i am also in favor of Tobacco being totally illegal and alcohol use becoming more restricted , this is not a question you should be asking me. I just say that one mistake does not justify another one. It only gives advocates of such mistakes grounds used to mislead people.

 

[Narz]

you should ask em. Raw has a higher fat and bacteria content, and unless they've been eating only raw food for a while, something happened.

Bacteria is not the enemy. Most bacteria are benign and some are helpful (like cultures in yogurt & kim-chi).

Kim-chi powerful medicine against bird-flu : BBC

As for higher fat I don't know what you mean. Obviously raw milk has higher fat than skim.

When someone get sick of raw milk, it's probably bacteria infection;

When someone get sick of pasteurized milk, it's probably lactose intolerance.

Pasteurized milk spoils as readily as raw.

I've noticed no one has yet posted any studies about the unsafety of raw milk. Probably because there aren't any.

Relax, Narz. We all know your rigorous stance in favour of unpasteurized milk draws solely from the fact that you're opposed to anything you perceive to be popular or established and in favour of anything you perceive to be new and against the grain.

Yeah, that must be it. I'm trying to be "edgy & nonconformist" right Fifty?

If unpasteurized milk were the norm, you'd be ranting about how awesome pasteurized milk is and how everyone who opposes it is a fascist cock. If pedophilia were legal, you'd be raving about how awesome middle-aged women are in bed.

You're boring. Time to visit my ignore list.

 

[Narz]

As nivi pointed out earlier, why does the government choose to ban unpasteurized milk when other products such as tobacco and alcohol are far more harmful and far reaching? The amount of people who actually drink raw milk is relatively small compared to the amount of people who drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes and the amount of people who actually die from drinking raw milk is probably nothing compared to the amount of people who die everyday from alcohol and tobacco.

Nice point BTW.

Same could go for marijuana.

 

[Masquerouge]

I've noticed no one has yet posted any studies about the unsafety of raw milk. Probably because there aren't any.

When I was trying to learn some stuff about why raw milk products (such as cheese) were so difficult to find in the US, I remember stumbling upon a page of the FDA that was pretty interesting in that regard.

Let's see what the FDA has to say about how dangerous raw milk and cheeses are:

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/rawmilk.html

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, more than 800 people in the United States have gotten sick from drinking raw milk or eating cheese made from raw milk since 1998.

TEH HORROR! 800 sick people in 10 years?

So yeah. Not one death. Just 800 people who got stomach cramps.
I think it's totally irrational.

 

[Narz]

TEH HORROR! 800 sick people in 10 years?

So yeah. Not one death. Just 800 people who got stomach cramps.
I think it's totally irrational.

Dude, it totally makes sense!

I'll bet less than 800 people have gotten sick & thrown up from alcohol in the last ten years! In fact I never knew anyone who got stomach pain from alcohol. And no one ever dies from alcohol related causes!

So, alcohol is safer than raw milk!

Seriously though, there are dozens of foods that play a contributing role in the deaths of at least 50% of the 2.5 million Americans who kick the bucket every year. Raw milk is not one of them (though an over abundance of dairy products in general can contribute to obesity).

Edit : That government link is even more ridiculous considering it includes raw cheese. I eat raw goat's cheese around 2-3 times a week (I'd eat it every day if it wasn't so expensive). Raw cheese is legal all over the country & millions of people eat it. Makes that 800 sickies in 10 years all the more ridiculous. Likely at least 800 people have gotten sick from almost any food you could possibly imagine.

 

[choxorn]

Alcohol once was illegal, for about 15 years, thanks to the 18th amendment. Unfortunately, Americans crave alcohol so much that the ban didn't mean jack to them, they kept drinking it. And since it was illegal, the means of getting it became similar to how anyone gets illegal drugs today. Hence, huge drug dealing problem. So, the ban was lifted, problem goes down now that people can get their beer elsewhere.

That's why it isn't banned. Plus, it won't kill you if you don't drink too much of it. Tobacco: same reason, too many people do it. If the number could be reduced significantly enough, it would probably be banned because, well, it does kill you if you do it long enough, no matter how much you're smoking it.

As for raw milk, the small number of people who drink it is precisely why it's banned almost everywhere. If you have a large number of people breaking the law to get it, then you have a big crime problem like in the prohibition era. If it's a small number, then like with meth, heroin, cocaine, etc., you don't have that big of a problem to deal with. You still have a problem, but not a big one.