1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

The Celts

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Gazebo, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,868
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    That's fair, but I don't like the idea of some being left out. Maybe tweak numbers or do split yields (Mannan gets +3 :c5production: & +3 Great Admiral points maybe.)
     
  2. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Yuggoth
    MannaManna should get bonus to fishing boats, but even this won't force anyone to chose him at any time.
     
  3. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,729
    Location:
    Moscow
    Are you kidding? It's crazy strong

    EDIT: But not OP. Also I don't recommend to take it if you do not have coastal cities
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  4. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,868
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    I'm pretty sure he meant that the bonus on the UB would be on fishing boats, which is a good idea if possible.
     
  5. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,297
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Proposed changes to boooodica's pantheons:

     
  6. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Would this remove the no-spread thing associated with her UA as well?
     
  7. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,297
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    No. It makes more sense to me for her religion to remain unique to her, such that she needs to go wide to really excel, and doesn't benefit at all from religious spread (sort of an anti-Isabella).

    G
     
  8. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Then I really don't see any point of any of this, to be honest. It's just more text crammed onto already crowded pantheons.
     
  9. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    520
    Yeah, the point of this is to let her spread religion without giving ALL of the bonus to other players, because much is attached to the UB which only Celts can build
     
  10. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,297
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Well you can't very well stick the text on the UA. I think it's fine.

    Except that beliefs affect classes not types, so people would get the bonus by building circuses.

    G
     
  11. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    520
    The bonus could be a part of the UB that then refers to the pantheon to decide which bonus to give, but you said this is technically unprecedented and not happening, correct?
     
  12. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,297
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Right. Having bonuses go 'in reverse' from building to pantheon is absolutely unprecedented and would be a PITA to code.

    G
     
  13. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    520
    Well if it applies to circuses I would just scrap this idea altogether. Does the AI know to never spread religion? And a civ that conquers the celts will have a massive advantage of now having and OP pantheon + now a second UB basically in the circus. Even if it would be a good change for the Celts, the game is massively imbalanced for all the other civs once one gets its hand on a Celtic city.
     
  14. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    2,387
    Just increase Celtic UA back to pre-nerf 3 Faith and they'll be good to go I think.
     
  15. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Yuggoth
    And make it scaling with era...
     
  16. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,867
    Having a belief affecting a building in a strange way is unprecedenced, but having a building giving access to a building is possible (but still long to code), so here is a suggestion :
    + Every unique pantheon give access to a new and different religious building.
    + This building should be cheap (between 1/10 and 1/2 of a missionnary), simple, and weak.
    + So the Celt keep a part of its pantheon if it lose its religion.
    + I don't know if it is possible, but making the religious building non purchasable by non-Celt civs could be a good idea.
    If it is not possible, we could make a UB version of each of the religious buildings (but it would be even longer to code). So the non-Celt have a less powerfull building.

    The main problem of this suggestion is that it is more a "complete rewrite of the Celt" than a "easy patch to apply".
     
  17. black213

    black213 Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,559
    And make that scale with era too!
     
  18. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,766
    Location:
    Beijing
    I'm just going to say that the only time I ever took it I was very impressed, and I had almost no fishing boats (mining luxury). The only reason I haven't taken it more often is because its just really rare to get a start where every city can go on the coast (and even then you can still be really forest/jungle heavy or want a terrain neutral pantheon). If you make part of its benefit on fishing boats, I get to choose it even less often, because even if I get an all coastal start I can have a land based luxury. Or its still good enough to pick without buffing fishing boats, and its too strong when you need.
    Could we go around this? Just make the Celidh hall a seperate class that does everything a circus, and ban Celts from building the circus? Or would this mess up the chain into zoos?

    Also, could we make one of the pantheons allow faith purchasing the Celidh hall? That's an already existing religious feature, correct?
     
  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,297
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    A few extra yields on the circus is hardly a UB. And yes, the AI knows how to play the Celts (I wouldn't have added the UA if it couldn't).

    That's bananas. 10 new buildings? No.

    Yes, one of them could faith buy the ceilidh hall. No, you can't go around these, as it breaks everything (and the UI would be weird for the celts). It's just not an option to do that.

    I honestly don't see a few extra yields on the ceilidh hall/circus as an issue. It is a buff for the Celts if they stay alive, and a very small boon for the conqueror (who is probably much more happy about the holy city they took than a few more yields on a building).

    All that said, I have an easy solution to this that, as it happens, I've already been testing. Celtic UA tweak:

     
  20. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    520
    Well if that is an option I am all for it! Doesn't this encourage Celts to spread as much as possible though because you are essentially denying the city you spread to a pantheon? Not sure if this is too much of an issue though.
     

Share This Page