The Celts

[ElliotS]

I don't know, 5 great general points or 5 per city adds up really quickly. I really think Mannan would benefit from a second economic boost, because its pretty insignificant in the later eras. Obviously it doesn't have to be 5, but I wanted to start simple

That's fair, but I don't like the idea of some being left out. Maybe tweak numbers or do split yields (Mannan gets +3 & +3 Great Admiral points maybe.)

 

[infidel88]

MannaManna should get bonus to fishing boats, but even this won't force anyone to chose him at any time.

 

[Owlbebach]

MannaManna should get bonus to fishing boats, but even this won't force anyone to chose him at any time.

Are you kidding? It's crazy strong

EDIT: But not OP. Also I don't recommend to take it if you do not have coastal cities

 

[ElliotS]

MannaManna should get bonus to fishing boats, but even this won't force anyone to chose him at any time.

Are you kidding? It's crazy strong

EDIT: But not OP. Also I don't recommend to take it if you do not have coastal cities

I'm pretty sure he meant that the bonus on the UB would be on fishing boats, which is a good idea if possible.

 

[Gazebo]

Proposed changes to boooodica's pantheons:

<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_MORRIGAN">
<Text>Earn [ICON_GOLD] Gold, [ICON_CULTURE] Culture, and [ICON_GOLDEN_AGE] Golden Age Points if you win a battle. +2 [ICON_GREAT_GENERAL] Great General Points from Ceilidh Hall</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_MORRIGAN_SHORT">
<Text>Morrigan, Harbinger of Strife</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_EPONA">
<Text>Receive +10 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science, [ICON_CULTURE] Culture, and [ICON_FOOD] Food when your Borders expand, scaling with Era. +4 [ICON_FOOD] Food from Ceilidh Hall</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_EPONA_SHORT">
<Text>Epona, the Great Mare</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_NUADA">
<Text>+1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture for every 10 [ICON_GOLD] Gold per turn, +1 [ICON_GOLDEN_AGE] Golden Age Points for every 5 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science per turn, and +2 [ICON_GOLD] Gold from [ICON_CONNECTED] City Connections. +5 [ICON_GOLD] Gold from Ceilidh Hall</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_NUADA_SHORT">
<Text>Nuada, the Silver-Handed King</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_CERNUNNOS">
<Text>+1 [ICON_FOOD] Food and [ICON_GOLD] Gold from Forests, +1 [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production and [ICON_RESEARCH] Science from Jungles. +1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture from Camps. +2 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture from Ceilidh Hall</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_CERNUNNOS_SHORT">
<Text>Cernunnos, the Horned Stag</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_LUGH">
<Text>+3 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture, [ICON_RESEARCH] Science, and [ICON_GOLD] Gold in Cities with a Specialist. +3 [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production from Ceilidh Hall</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_LUGH_SHORT">
<Text>Lugh, the Skilled One</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_RHIANNON">
<Text>+2 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture in every City, +1 [ICON_GOLD] Gold and [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production from every improved Resource. +5 [ICON_GOLDEN_AGE] Golden Age Points from Ceilidh Hall</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_RHIANNON_SHORT">
<Text>Rhiannon, Goddess of Sovereignty</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_MANANNAN">
<Text>+3 [ICON_FOOD] Food, +3 [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production, and +4 [ICON_GOLD] Gold in coastal Cities. +5 [ICON_GREAT_ADMIRAL] Great Admiral Points from Ceilidh Hall</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_MANANNAN_SHORT">
<Text>Mannanan, Son of the Sea</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_OGMA">
<Text>+1 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science for every 3 [ICON_CITIZEN] Citizens in a City. +3 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science, [ICON_CULTURE] Culture, and [ICON_GREAT_SCIENTIST] Great Scientist Points in [ICON_CAPITAL] Capital. +5 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science from Ceilidh Hall</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_OGMA_SHORT">
<Text>Ogma, the Learned</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_BRAN">
<Text>+100% increase to [ICON_RANGE_STRENGTH] Ranged Combat Strength, +25% [ICON_FOOD] Growth, and +8 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture when a [ICON_CITIZEN] Citizen is born, scaling with Era. +4 [ICON_PEACE] Faith from Ceilidh Hall</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_BRAN_SHORT">
<Text>Bran, the Sleeping Guardian</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BELIEF_DAGDA">
<Text>+1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture, [ICON_GOLD] Gold, [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production, and [ICON_RESEARCH] Science for every 4 Followers of your Pantheon in owned Cities. +2 [ICON_HAPPINESS_1] Happiness from Ceilidh Hall</Text>
</Row>

 

[Funak]

Proposed changes to boooodica's pantheons:

Would this remove the no-spread thing associated with her UA as well?

 

[Gazebo]

Would this remove the no-spread thing associated with her UA as well?

No. It makes more sense to me for her religion to remain unique to her, such that she needs to go wide to really excel, and doesn't benefit at all from religious spread (sort of an anti-Isabella).

G

 

[Funak]

No. It makes more sense to me for her religion to remain unique to her, such that she needs to go wide to really excel, and doesn't benefit at all from religious spread (sort of an anti-Isabella).

Then I really don't see any point of any of this, to be honest. It's just more text crammed onto already crowded pantheons.

 

[doublex55]

Yeah, the point of this is to let her spread religion without giving ALL of the bonus to other players, because much is attached to the UB which only Celts can build

 

[Gazebo]

Then I really don't see any point of any of this, to be honest. It's just more text crammed onto already crowded pantheons.

Well you can't very well stick the text on the UA. I think it's fine.

Yeah, the point of this is to let her spread religion without giving ALL of the bonus to other players, because much is attached to the UB which only Celts can build

Except that beliefs affect classes not types, so people would get the bonus by building circuses.

G

 

[doublex55]

Well you can't very well stick the text on the UA. I think it's fine.



Except that beliefs affect classes not types, so people would get the bonus by building circuses.

G

The bonus could be a part of the UB that then refers to the pantheon to decide which bonus to give, but you said this is technically unprecedented and not happening, correct?

 

[Gazebo]

The bonus could be a part of the UB that then refers to the pantheon to decide which bonus to give, but you said this is technically unprecedented and not happening, correct?

Right. Having bonuses go 'in reverse' from building to pantheon is absolutely unprecedented and would be a PITA to code.

G

 

[doublex55]

Well if it applies to circuses I would just scrap this idea altogether. Does the AI know to never spread religion? And a civ that conquers the celts will have a massive advantage of now having and OP pantheon + now a second UB basically in the circus. Even if it would be a good change for the Celts, the game is massively imbalanced for all the other civs once one gets its hand on a Celtic city.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Just increase Celtic UA back to pre-nerf 3 Faith and they'll be good to go I think.

 

[infidel88]

Just increase Celtic UA back to pre-nerf 3 Faith and they'll be good to go I think.

And make it scaling with era...

 

[Moi Magnus]

Having a belief affecting a building in a strange way is unprecedenced, but having a building giving access to a building is possible (but still long to code), so here is a suggestion :
+ Every unique pantheon give access to a new and different religious building.
+ This building should be cheap (between 1/10 and 1/2 of a missionnary), simple, and weak.
+ So the Celt keep a part of its pantheon if it lose its religion.
+ I don't know if it is possible, but making the religious building non purchasable by non-Celt civs could be a good idea.
If it is not possible, we could make a UB version of each of the religious buildings (but it would be even longer to code). So the non-Celt have a less powerfull building.

The main problem of this suggestion is that it is more a "complete rewrite of the Celt" than a "easy patch to apply".

 

[black213]

And make it scaling with era...

And make that scale with era too!

 

[CrazyG]

MannaManna should get bonus to fishing boats, but even this won't force anyone to chose him at any time

I'm just going to say that the only time I ever took it I was very impressed, and I had almost no fishing boats (mining luxury). The only reason I haven't taken it more often is because its just really rare to get a start where every city can go on the coast (and even then you can still be really forest/jungle heavy or want a terrain neutral pantheon). If you make part of its benefit on fishing boats, I get to choose it even less often, because even if I get an all coastal start I can have a land based luxury. Or its still good enough to pick without buffing fishing boats, and its too strong when you need.

Except that beliefs affect classes not types, so people would get the bonus by building circuses.

G

Could we go around this? Just make the Celidh hall a seperate class that does everything a circus, and ban Celts from building the circus? Or would this mess up the chain into zoos?

Also, could we make one of the pantheons allow faith purchasing the Celidh hall? That's an already existing religious feature, correct?

 

[Gazebo]

Well if it applies to circuses I would just scrap this idea altogether. Does the AI know to never spread religion? And a civ that conquers the celts will have a massive advantage of now having and OP pantheon + now a second UB basically in the circus. Even if it would be a good change for the Celts, the game is massively imbalanced for all the other civs once one gets its hand on a Celtic city.

A few extra yields on the circus is hardly a UB. And yes, the AI knows how to play the Celts (I wouldn't have added the UA if it couldn't).

Having a belief affecting a building in a strange way is unprecedenced, but having a building giving access to a building is possible (but still long to code), so here is a suggestion :
+ Every unique pantheon give access to a new and different religious building.
+ This building should be cheap (between 1/10 and 1/2 of a missionnary), simple, and weak.
+ So the Celt keep a part of its pantheon if it lose its religion.
+ I don't know if it is possible, but making the religious building non purchasable by non-Celt civs could be a good idea.
If it is not possible, we could make a UB version of each of the religious buildings (but it would be even longer to code). So the non-Celt have a less powerfull building.

The main problem of this suggestion is that it is more a "complete rewrite of the Celt" than a "easy patch to apply".

That's bananas. 10 new buildings? No.

I'm just going to say that the only time I ever took it I was very impressed, and I had almost no fishing boats (mining luxury). The only reason I haven't taken it more often is because its just really rare to get a start where every city can go on the coast (and even then you can still be really forest/jungle heavy or want a terrain neutral pantheon). If you make part of its benefit on fishing boats, I get to choose it even less often, because even if I get an all coastal start I can have a land based luxury. Or its still good enough to pick without buffing fishing boats, and its too strong when you need.

Could we go around this? Just make the Celidh hall a seperate class that does everything a circus, and ban Celts from building the circus? Or would this mess up the chain into zoos?

Also, could we make one of the pantheons allow faith purchasing the Celidh hall? That's an already existing religious feature, correct?

Yes, one of them could faith buy the ceilidh hall. No, you can't go around these, as it breaks everything (and the UI would be weird for the celts). It's just not an option to do that.

I honestly don't see a few extra yields on the ceilidh hall/circus as an issue. It is a buff for the Celts if they stay alive, and a very small boon for the conqueror (who is probably much more happy about the holy city they took than a few more yields on a building).

All that said, I have an easy solution to this that, as it happens, I've already been testing. Celtic UA tweak:

Has a unique set of Pantheon Beliefs that no one else can benefit from. Cities with your Religion generate nor receive foreign Religious Pressure. +3 [ICON_PEACE] Faith in owned Cities where your Religion is the majority.

 

[doublex55]

Well if that is an option I am all for it! Doesn't this encourage Celts to spread as much as possible though because you are essentially denying the city you spread to a pantheon? Not sure if this is too much of an issue though.