The Clique, and other greivances

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*shakes head* (I have a feeling you've not been paying attention to the posts of mine you've been reading. And there's no reason why you should. But it could explain why they seem to be nonsense.)

It's a very famous book by Robert Burton.
 
Nonsense should not abound in this thread. The conversation was not that hard to follow. Is there a nonsense clique?
 
Yes, they call it CFC-OT. The rest of the forum, sadly, is controlled by the Civ-clique, which is very strong and probably unbeatable.
 
Ok, I don’t know how to do fancy things on this site, like link to posts in different threads, with stuff I want in them highlighted, so you’ll have to scan through these posts to see my grounds for “Retreat of Embittered Melancholia”:

Retreat and Embittered are from here

Melancholia is from here

I write of melancoly by being busy to avoid melancholy.
 
But the flip side of that formulation is that there is no amount of treachery that can ever finally divorce him from that opprobrious class

That's because class identity isn't based upon feel feels or personal preference, it's based upon material conditions. It's not self-hate any more than it's self-pity, it's simply an acknowledgment of the situation such as it is. I, for one, think that if one is aware of one's systemic privilege then one is obliged to combat it, or otherwise embrace it. That's identifying and sympathizing with the sufferance of others, it's not for a second a selfish indulgence. The mind boggles at how one can see a selfless act and turn it into a selfish one...
 
This forum desperately needs a "like" or "thanks" button. So instead of a bunch of people saying "yeah dude you're right," "this," or "lol," you can see a list at the bottom of the post that says "x, y, and z liked this post." edit: something like this

I can support that, as long as it isn't tied to something elitist like karma, which can lead to whoring.

Counterpoint...I enjoy the funny, maybe snarky (and secretly maybe even the mean) posts...even when I agree with the 'other side'...and even when I am the other side.

I frequently talk about lurkers...and let's face it, if threads on this forum consisted of just 'here is my well thought out, clearly articulated, and somewhat dry statement of my position, with appropriate references linked', followed by an equally well formed rebuttal, then we would have no lurkers. In fact even we wouldn't be here.

I don't think any regular poster is operating under the belief that this is a place to post their opinion and grab a bunny and a rainbow on their way out. Internet forums are rough and tumble places. There are standards, and mods to maintain the standards, but if there is a 'clique' that 'dogpiles' me here I will handle it the same way I would in the real world...identify a leader and give as good as I get...or better if I'm able.

The mean ones are what gets me, and grates me so much. There is no need to be snarky, or just plain mean to people. It doesn't accomplish anything and only stirs up anger, possibly hatred. What is accomplished by this other than a virtual cookies for supporting your informal clique? We should try and avoid all anger as much as possible, it muddles discussions and ruins threads.

I used to defend this forum as different from the rest of the internet. This was the shining city on the hill, surrounded by the wild west that was the rest. That's honestly the phase the internet is still in right now, an unsettled frontier, still being explored and colonized, people are still figuring out how to interact and such. CFCOT, on the other hand, had found its place and was a respite from the cruelties and harshness of the frontier. We had rules in place, and a fantastic community that although debated and discussed, still respected one another, allowing for quality discourse to occur. We were the one settlement that not only had walls, but laws that helped keep things civil.

I'm not saying this has changed, but over the past year or so I have noticed a swing towards the darker side. People are becoming meaner, discussion snarkier and less meaty, and overall less civil. I don't want CFC to be like the rest of the internet. I've been there, it's not pretty, nothing gets done. This is not a fight where we dogpile on each other and duke it out. This is a community where we discuss and enjoy each other's company. And if you find that dry, or boring, then by all means, no one is keeping you here. It's the reason I stay here, and the reason I'm still here. I just hope that this storm will pass and things will go back to the way they used to be.
 
^This is the only place I go on the internet, so I don't have your grounds for comparison, Joecoolyo. But I thought it might be some grounds for self-congratulation that people on this site were able to have a discussion of the Zoe Quinn incident that evidently shut down multiple other gaming sites. I myself didn't fully understand that thread; it seems like you need more knowledge of the game-design world than I possess to really follow what's going on. But still, we're past 10 pages without crashing over it, as the rest of the gaming world seems to have done.
 
I think we probably differ by a pretty small degree. If someone says something outright snotty with no redeeming value at all I'm in favor of blasting them. But If someone has a snappy comeback to something I say that usually makes me smile more than it makes me angry.
 
I think you're looking at the past of OT with rose-tinted lenses, Joe.

^This is the only place I go on the internet, so I don't have your grounds for comparison, Joecoolyo. But I thought it might be some grounds for self-congratulation that people on this site were able to have a discussion of the Zoe Quinn incident that evidently shut down multiple other gaming sites. I myself didn't fully understand that thread; it seems like you need more knowledge of the game-design world than I possess to really follow what's going on. But still, we're past 10 pages without crashing over it, as the rest of the gaming world seems to have done.
I mean, the thread is closed...
 
^This is the only place I go on the internet, so I don't have your grounds for comparison, Joecoolyo. But I thought it might be some grounds for self-congratulation that people on this site were able to have a discussion of the Zoe Quinn incident that evidently shut down multiple other gaming sites. I myself didn't fully understand that thread; it seems like you need more knowledge of the game-design world than I possess to really follow what's going on. But still, we're past 10 pages without crashing over it, as the rest of the gaming world seems to have done.

Yeah, that's why I said it hasn't completely changed, but there is a new air to things. It's not very big mind you, but it does worry me a bit, considering I've called this place internet home for 6 years.

I think we probably differ by a pretty small degree. If someone says something outright snotty with no redeeming value at all I'm in favor of blasting them. But If someone has a snappy comeback to something I say that usually makes me smile more than it makes me angry.

I don't mind snappy comebacks, or funny posts; in fact I campaigned hard for their return with the merging of the Tavern and Chamber. What irks me is the mean-spirited ones, that specifically target either segments of posters, or their views, in such a way as to elicit anger. It almost borders on trolling, as much as I dislike that word.

I think respect is the key to all of this. If we as a community hold respect for one another, and their views (no matter how much you disagree with them, or vis-versa), jabs will be jokes between friends, instead of snark between enemies. And I hope this develops again, or returns, so I won't have to avoid threads due to the toxicity or vitriol displayed.

EDIT:

I think you're looking at the past of OT with rose-tinted lenses, Joe.

I was thinking about that, maybe I am viewing the past by selectivity remember the good over the bad. In which case my arguments don't have much ground. If it's wrong, then it's wrong. But I remember the place being just a bit nicer than it is currently.

Indeed, one of the big things that motivated the moderator crack down a few years ago was to combat precisely that.

Yes, and the issue with that was the idea that this sort of thing could be moderated into existence, or, a revolution from above. I also argued back then that it was an issue only the community itself could solve. Since without a community, CFCOT doesn't exist. If we want to rid the OT of meanness, or bring back quality posting (which was the big topic back then) it's something we have to do ourselves through our own contributions. Changes can only come from the community, they cannot be forced onto it by an authority figure.
 
I don't mind snappy comebacks, or funny posts; in fact I campaigned hard for their return with the merging of the Tavern and Chamber. What irks me is the mean-spirited ones, that specifically target either segments of posters, or their views, in such a way as to elicit anger. It almost borders on trolling, as much as I dislike that word.

I think respect is the key to all of this. If we as a community hold respect for one another, and their views (no matter how much you disagree with them, or vis-versa), jabs will be jokes between friends, instead of snark between enemies. And I hope this develops again, or returns, so I won't have to avoid threads due to the toxicity or vitriol displayed.

In other words: If you're going to poke fun at people, do it like Perfy, or JollyRoger, or Godwynn? In jest, not in a mean-spirited way?
 
That's identifying and sympathizing with the sufferance of others, it's not for a second a selfish indulgence. The mind boggles at how one can see a selfless act and turn it into a selfish one...

Welcome to the inner tribulations of a religious man. Like not snarky. Like "Welcome, brother."
 
In other words: If you're going to poke fun at people, do it like Perfy, or JollyRoger, or Godwynn? In jest, not in a mean-spirited way?

Humor is a very tricky thing...things look just funny from one side, and nastily barbed from another. I find that any time I am inclined to be offended if I try to see how someone else would find the comment funny I almost always can.
 
This forum desperately needs a "like" or "thanks" button. So instead of a bunch of people saying "yeah dude you're right," "this," or "lol," you can see a list at the bottom of the post that says "x, y, and z liked this post." edit: something like this
If such a feature were used responsibly, it would be nice. But I've seen what happens when it isn't, and the result can be extremely detrimental to the social fabric of the forum, not to mention fostering ongoing ill-will among members that can last a very long time.

On a forum I used to belong to, one such instance of misuse of the reputation system resulted in one of the forum admins being stripped of his position and reduced to a regular member. Compared to that, the actions of the rest of his clique who engaged in targeted trolling might seem minor in a mathematical sense (ie. they hadn't misused the reputation system quite as badly), but they were no less despicable.
 
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