The Conquest Training Game

[Mauer]

So: Are we playing the game? I think we shold try to get this moving a bit faster, rather than analysing it to death.

Seems that in between the rotation we analyze alot, but actual participation when the players turn comes up takes FOREVER.
Spleen has disappeared and Bererrn has possibly taken a hiatus.
I don't want to jump turns, but am starting to lose interest especially with 2 games a month now.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Ainwood is playing hooky this weekend.

ummm We dont need to know that. If ainwood is into pimping recreation.
(WW2 recreation yes hooky recreation no)

Maybe we can play 20turns per player which will speed up the game.
P.S stay away from ainwood hes weird

 

[AlanH]

Nah! Playing hooky in the UK is going absent without leave, usually from school - truanting. I assume you are deriving it from 'hooker' by applying a 'Y', the universal Oz word ending?

PS But you're right about ainwood

 

[ainwood]

I don't want to jump turns, but am starting to lose interest especially with 2 games a month now.

That is my concern as well.

I suggest we formalise the roster, and if people haven't played their turns in (say) 48 hours, then it skips to the next person.

 

[Berrern]

I'm sorry guys, but there's something wrong with my PC, preventing me from playing
I've spent the whole weekend trying to fix it, but I can't.. It's some component in the case that's not working, I think it's the PSU but can't be sure..

Anyway, I'm doing my best to fix it, but in the meantime skip me. I'll still participate in the discussions! Hopefully I'll have it fixed before the weekend...

Sorry I couldn't tell you guys, but as my PC ain't working I had no way of letting you know until today, when I'm back at work.

Again, sorry

 

[mabellino]

I'll be able to play tomorrow evening.... can someone post the current save again... I seem to have lost it!

 

[Detlef Richter]

That is my concern as well.

I suggest we formalise the roster, and if people haven't played their turns in (say) 48 hours, then it skips to the next person.

Sounds good, 48 hours for the turn start and 20 laps each player.

 

[Mauer]

Sounds good, 48 hours for the turn start and 20 laps each player.

20 turns is alot. Especially in the early game before things get settled. 20 turns is fine, but with this being a training game, we need to keep the turn log pretty detailed. I know I have a problem with this. Just read my COTM spoilers.

 

[ainwood]

I agree that 20 turns might be a bit much (certainly later in teh game). For now, any turns would be good though!

 

[FriendlyFire]

I'll be able to play tomorrow evening.... can someone post the current save again... I seem to have lost it!

I believe I was the last player

(cant upload it again)
> http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56876

 

[ainwood]

I'll be able to play tomorrow evening.... can someone post the current save again... I seem to have lost it!

Did you get the save? Are you playing?

 

[Berrern]

I got my new PSU today at work, so if all works well I'll be ready tonight

Unless Mabellino replies, I'll play the next 10 turns tonight sometime!

 

[ainwood]

I got my new PSU today at work, so if all works well I'll be ready tonight

Unless Mabellino replies, I'll play the next 10 turns tonight sometime!

Fantastic! I am worried that if we don't get this moving, it will die...

 

[Berrern]

Yes ainwood, I don't want this to die either, and we should take some steps to prevent this.

First, we need to formalize the roster. Currently it's looking like this:
1 Spleen
2 maurer
3 Detlef
4 FriendlyFire just played
5 Berrern up now
6 mabellino on deck

However, I see that Spleen was last online 7th June, but hasn't posted in this thread since 25th of May. I think we can pretty much conclude from this (20 days absence without notice) that he can't/wont/don't have time to participate in this. Should we remove him from the roster? Maybe replace him?

I think 20 turns is too much, we should stick with 10. However, we should have a 48-hour limit for playing (24 hours to say "got it", 24 more hours to play), otherwise skip to the next in the roster.

 

[mabellino]

sorry guys! I forgot to say got it!
I'll post the new save and turn log when I get home from work (6hours or so)
Erm... I played 20turns... is that ok?

 

[mabellino]

OK here's the promised save
Turn log: (caution it's a mammoth one!, Did it in SG format)

Turn 1 (2390BC)
Priorities are barracks in Shanghai then build horsemen.
Settler factory in Beijing (need to chop+irrigate game tiles)

I adjust the sliders to min science as we haven't a hope of out researching the AI on this level. Gold is much more useful. We are now making +4gpt and will research mysticism in 40 turns.
I checked with the germans and they won't trade their IW for our 3 techs +4g. The advisor says we're getting close to a deal so I gamble that they'll accept 8gold next turn. The other civs don't have IW yet so hopefully we'll be able to broker it to them for alphabet at least.

Unit moves
Warrior 1 moves south onto mountain near german borders
Warrior 2 moves NW onto mountain near greece

IBT
2 warriors leave Ninevah (barb hunting?)

Turn 2 (2350BC)
Move W1 S onto hills, W2 E to desert, nothing exciting revealed
Send both workers to chop nearest game forest.. complete in 4 turns, hopefully help with barracks in Shanghai since that city is working the tile at the mo.

Trading disaster! The bloody germans have only gone and traded IW to the other civs! Now we have no chance of getting it and brokering it around! grrrrrrrr! I need a new plan!

Turn 3 (2310BC)
Shanghai builds spear -> barracks in 7 (not counting forest chop shields)
Beijing builds settler -> archer whilst waiting for city to grow. need pop 4 or 5 for settler factory to work properly.
Decide to send settler to distance 3 coastal site on east coast, I'm not keen on too much overlap!
Warriors don't reveal much else than a barb camp and a new german border.
Adjust sliders to 20% sci, myst in 38t

Turn 4 (2270BC)
W1 spots coastline
Settler 1 tile away from city site
Babs have discovered Mysticism, they have a monopoly

Turn 5 (2230BC)
Nothing interesting

Turn 6 (2190BC)
Forest harvested, barracks complete -> chariot in 5 t
Workers irrigating game in 2t
Found Canton -> warrior in 4t
Now making +5gpt treasury=24g

Turn 7 (2150BC)
Trade Pottery to Greeks for 27 gold (they have 28)
Buy Alphabet from Germans for The wheel+pottery+29gold
Still cannot afford IW from anyone, even with all we have!
W1 commits suicide against barb camp... 25gold would have been worth the risk!

Turn 8 (2110BC)
Workers irrigate 1st game tile, send S to chop +irrigate next.

Turn 9 (2070BC)
Beijing completes archer -> warrior in 2
Aztec jag warrior approaches Canton, contact them and trade Masonry, alphabet and the wheel+14 gold for Mysticism and IW! Woo hoo!
Germans have iron but not connected yet, 2 more sources visible, 1 near greek borders and one in hills to far north.
We are now caught up in tech with everyone
Change research to maths on a 40turn gambit so we can trade it around for other techs. (side note, Maths + writing are highest value 2nd tier techs available)
Send new archer to explore SE corner.

Turn 10 (2030BC)
Canton builds warrior ->barracks in 7t
Just spot iron north of Canton within easy reach... priority to claim this asap!

IBT
Babs demand 20g, we have 28g in treasury. I cave cos our military is weak.

Turn 11 (1990BC)
Beijing completes warrior ->spear in 4t, grow in 2t to pop3
Shanghai builds chariot -> warrior in 3 (to upgrade to sword once iron is hooked up)
Archer reveals lack of land tiles in SE, possibly squeeze 1 city in down there next to wines.
Chariot moves towards goody hut.
Warrior on iron tile to N of Canton
Jag warrior is still lurking near our land. keep an eye on him!

IBT
Greeks ask us to remove troops from near Sparta. I comply.

Turn 12 (1950BC)
Chariot pops goody hut get 25gold
Babs settler/spear combo looks to be heading towards our land
Workers chop forest, spear nearly complete. Set to irrigate game.
Fortify warrior on iron to deny babs.
Our military is weak against everyone except the greeks (average)

Turn 13 (1910BC)
Decide to fortify chariot as itappears to have made babs turn around.
Nothing much interesting happens.

Turn 14 (1870BC)
Spear in beijing complete -> settler in 8 turns
Shanghai grows to pop3 and riots... oops... need to adjust lux slider to 10%
Warrior in N spots aztecs lands near greece.
Decide to keep forest game for now as Beijing needs shields more than food (currently +5fpt)

Turn 15 (1830BC)
Greeks are building the Oracle and the Germans the Pyramids.
Babs move settler back towards our land... need to blockade them..

Turn 16 (1790BC)
Workers connect Canton to rest of cities.
Looks like Babs are going to build on coast next to Shanghai
Our military is now average against everyone elses'. (phew!)

Turn 17 (1750BC)
Canton build barracks -> chariot in 7t
Realise Beijing needs third irrigated game, workers sent to chop!
Babs build their city, remove our units from their land before they ask me to.

Turn 18 (1725BC)
Nothing interesting. Move units around a bit.

Turn 19 (1700BC)
All civs except Greeks have HBr. All want 77gold+2gpt for it.
Aztecs have writing, will sell contact with Romans and French for 77g+1gpt.
I'm hoping they'll pay for contact with us!
Military is now weak against everyone except germans???
Beijing builds settler->s ettler in 6t. Haven't got factory up and running yet since grassland game2 not irrigated. Job for next player!
Send settler to RCP=3 forest next to wines... we need lux desperately!

IBT
Aztecs ask us to get out (polite), I apologise

Turn 20 (1675BC)
Shanghai bulids archer ->spear in 5t (I think we need a vet defender here, feel free to switch to sword once iron is hooked up)
Forest chop in Beijing should mean that settler is built on same turn as it grows (in 3 turns)
Aztecs and babs have maths and writing. Greeks will trade us writing for 2gpt,62gold and mysticism. Germans have HBr but not writing. I think a trade is coming here!
Trade 2gpt,62gold and myst to greeks for Writing. Trade Writing to germans for Hbr and 12g.

Trade HBr to Greeks for contact with Romans +31gold.
Romans are annoyed and have nothing except french contact to trade.

Hope I played ok

Turns end...heres a screenshot

Edit: Fixed teh link to the save.

 

[Mauer]

alright, great mabellino . I will look at it closer in a little bit. berrern is next since he got skipped, then I guess it is back to me since spleen is out. Would have been really nice to have the Ur tile as a start location. Doesn't look like we'll be able to squeeze a city in between here and Ur though.

 

[Berrern]

Vey well played!

Only minus I could notice is the riot, but that stuff happens once in a while.. Make sure to watch the domestic advisor every turn

Very nice trades, it looks like we're now on par in tech!

I disagree a little with your next city location, IMO the Settler should've been sent to the other location you've marked on the map - as this would block the Babs. It looks like a new Settler is coming in 4-5 turns though, so it's not a big deal! Also, building down there gets us a luxury plus a low-corruption city (as compared to the northern location), so it's not bad thinking at all

I'll jump on this tonight and play my turns, but let's keep it to 10 from now!


What's the plans now? In my opinion we should fill out the two remaining available city locations (I think everyone will agree), and then use all cities to build military - except for one (Beijing?) who should be a Worker factory. It looks as we wont get any other productive landmass for Settling, so war is a major priority - we MUST get those Babylonian cities!
When should we attack them? How many units do we need? I'm really inexperienced with Horseman/Chariot attacks, so I have no idea how many units we'll need (I normally use Swordsmen and Catapults for my first attack).

Thoughts on further plans, before I pick up the game (wont be in another 6-8 hours)?

 

[ainwood]

Looking good! A few thoughts:

Firstly, it is a bit unfortunate that the 40-turn gambit on mathematics didn't pay off, however we know about it fairly early on! Good tech-trading though.

Re city placing: We have at least 3-more 3-distance locations that we can settle: the one that the settler is heading for, one between shanghai and canton, and another on the coast to the west of Beijing => on the game (unfortunately). This close packing really makes good use of the space that we have, but it will mean that we have to be very careful with the way we micromanage tiles in Beijing to run it as a settler factory. Longer-term (on city placement), Babylon or Ur could be good FP locations.

On the 40-turn Gambit: I'm not sure at what point that the science was put to 20%. At 20%, this was 3 beakers / turn. All you need for a 40-turn gambit is 1 beaker / turn, which can be achieved by using a single scientist (even in a far-off corrupt town), or at 10% science. 20% science doesn't actually speed the research, because we're still making less than 1/40 the cost of mathematics / turn, but it was effectively costing 2 excess GPT.

Spearman! I wouldn't have built it! I firmly feel that attack is the best form of defence. If its military police that we need, then warriors are cheaper. But otherwise, a chariot (that we can upgrade later), horsemen or warriors to upgrade to swordsmen.

On military police: If you note that we have luxuries set at 20%; the only effect of which is to keep an unhappy citizen in shanghai offset by a happy one. Under despotism, we get two military police, and we have lots of units running around the open country. Bringing one of those back to shanghai will make the three citizens content, and the luxuries rate can be cut to zero => another 3 GPT! The luxuries slider is great for short-term unhappiness control in large cities, but if you can control happiness as easily as using units, then that's preferable.

Great thinking using the forest shields for the barracks in shanghai! However, I <thought> that if the square was closer to one city than the other, that the shields actually go to the closest city. Where did they end-up? (I expect the shields from the next forest to go to beijing, even though its being worked by Canton) The barracks in Canton as well means we're ready to get our horseman army ready to kick babylonian butt! Canton may need some plains improved to help it grow to speed-up horse produciton, and shanghai can work around the squares that we need in Beijing for the settler factory.

I'm not too sure about having the units out-and-about. Good work on keeping the bab settlers at bay, but I'm not sure how the AI treats units running-wild! I know that they take note of total military power, and I know that they often head ofr undefended cities. I don't tend to patrol the wastelands with units, but as long as cities aren't undefended (early game => late game most of mine are undefended), then its probably fine.

In beijing, we've almost got the land improved to settler-factory status, which means we should think about getting the population up a bit. With new shields from a forest in one or two turns, then perhaps a horseman would be a better investment? Even if we time a settler to coincide with growth to size 4, it will still drop the pop back to size 2, and we'll need quite a few turns to get up to size again. A barracks is another option, but it wastes shields and we won't get much use out of it!

Overall, looking good! In summary, I suggest that we focus solely one horsemen in Shanghai & canton, and get the settler factory running.

Good luck!

 

[Berrern]

I agree with you on all points ainwood, except for Beijing. In my opinion the importance of getting a Settler factory up-and-running asap has decreased - since there's only landmass for 3 more cities. Unless you want to raze the Babylonian cities and found our own of course, in which case we definitely need a lot of Settlers!
What I'm trying to say is that I think Beijing would be better suited as a Worker factory for the time being (maybe Worker/Chariot every other turn, I don't have time to do the calculations now) - atleast after settling in the last 3 available spots.

What I'm trying to say is that building Barracks there wouldn't be useless
Also, since we only need 2 more Settlers atm, and the next one will be finished in 3-4 turns, I don't think we should delay the production of our next Settler.