The crypto thread

What do you prefer?

  • Bitcoin

    Votes: 3 9.7%
  • Ethereum

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • Binance Coin

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cardano

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Fiat

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • Go away, I deal in coke and gold bars

    Votes: 14 45.2%
  • Privacy coins

    Votes: 1 3.2%

  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
“Cloud” also applies. In the ‘90s I was using FTP servers to upload and download files—unbeknownst to me, teenage amadeus was decades ahead of the curve! Cloud!
OMG, so much this! It annoys the living crap out of me. Where I work we have a network of servers, so you can access all your files from your company laptop, or a "cafe" of generic computers (once you login), someone's else's laptop (if you use your own login) or even, to some extent (email mostly) your phone.

And yet these managers & executives keep pushing "the Cloud". I'm like, "what do you think our network is?!? The Cloud you're looking to purchase is just some network someone else owns & we have to pay to use!". It's so annoying. I'm no spring chicken anymore, but dealing with the people "in charge of technology" who literally have to ask their kids how to work their iPhones is getting more & more frustrating.. /OffTopicRant
 
@RobAnybody

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I have a gift-sized amount in a portfolio for my goddaughter that includes 8 different tokens/coins.. but also a bit more than that in case the portfolio blows up in 10 years time and all my other nieces and nephews get jealous. but also in case I get jealous. So take that FWIW. The vast majority of my investments are in more traditional places. That might change if my bank starts offering blockchain ETFs or whatever. When I first started reading about the technology it was basically me looking at the bitcoin whitepaper to try to understand the foundation for all of this. I discounted cryptocurrencies 10 years ago because I assumed that the development of quantum computers would render them useless*. I have a computer science background and just kept reading. I'm supposed to keeping an eye on my goddaughter's portfolio so it's sort of become a part of my week to stay on top of stuff and make sure none of the coins owned are about to die.

* turns out there are already algorithms ready to go in case this becomes a possibility (but it can take a while to upgrade a blockchain)
 
Out of curiosity, which Coins do you have in that portfolio, if you don't mind saying? At this point in the discussion, I'd honestly take your advice in what I should I get into.
 
This was all put together a bunch of months ago, so the situation right now is a bit different. You're not supposed to reveal your exact investments, but like I said this is a gift-sized amount so I don't mind. The plan is to liquidate this portfolio in 2035 and use it to pay for some portion of my goddaughter's education needs (and/or a car or a pizza or pencil depending on how much it ends up being worth). She'll be 15ish then, so it seems like a good time to start thinking about higher education.

LOW RISK - 62% (Out of all of the options out there, these 2 are the most likely to survive and still exist in 15 years IMO)
Ethereum (41%)
Bitcoin (21%)

MEDIUM RISK - 22% (Solid tech that has a decent chance of growing and surviving in the future IMO)
Cardano (10%) (The founder also co-founded Ethereum. They are very research-based and have a slightly different take on all of this. One of the visions is the empowerment of the working class and students in Africa)
Polygon (7%) (Ethereum sidechain tech from India that makes everything a lot easier, faster, and cheaper. Rapidly growing ecosystem)
Algorand (5%) (This blockchain has ties to my old university (a bunch of genius geeks) and many other institutions. They don't do much marketing but their ecosystem is continually growing. Seemingly solid research-based fundamentals)

HIGH RISK - 16% (Who the hell knows)
Dogecoin (5%) - (My niece might like dogs when she grows up, so let's do this)
Harmony ONE (5%) - (Similar to Polygon in what it aims to achieve, but not as high profile)
Gravity Finance (6%) - (Decentralized finance solution running on Polygon with unique tokenomics. They are building a place where you can invest your money in various automated ways. Everything is still being built though so who knows where it's going to go)

My lawyer tells me to say that this is not investment advice.

I researched the most out of these particular coins/tokens/chains, but also a whole bunch of ones. I wanted the right kind of mix of different types of tech, different niches, etc. I figure even if the "medium risk" and "high risk" crash and burn, then at least the "low risk" part will lead to some sort of money my goddaughter will be able to use .. probably. I mean. it's always possible Ethereum or Bitcoin die and something else takes over, especially in a timespan of 15 years, so I have to keep an eye on it just in case.. It would be lame if we go liquidate the portfolio in 15 years and it's worthless. So I'm keeping an eye on the developments of all of these so I can mix it up if need be.

By the way, you might think that "genius geeks" might be hyperbole. However, consider that the main Ethereum founder was a student there too. It's actually quite surreal to think about, that a guy who studied in the same building as me and took math and computer science classes in the same building as me.. is now a billionaire.. We did not study at the same time, so I had no chance of running into him, but still. This university breeds tech minds like that, they are responsible for RIM and a lot of other companies. I am by no means one of the genius geeks, I never felt like I fit in there at all

PS: I don't have a lawyer, but none of this is investment advice. I also bought my goddaughter a nice set of books that she can remember me by, so even if this whole portfolio tanks I am still going to be remembered as the cool uncle, unless I just jinxed it
 
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PS: I don't have a lawyer, but none of this is investment advice. I also bought my goddaughter a nice set of books that she can remember me by, so even if this whole portfolio tanks I am still going to be remembered as the cool uncle, unless I just jinxed it
Heh, I get this - it's why I keep repeating a similar refrain. :) Only thing I'd "advise", as a complete amateur as well, is to get her divested of DOGE. In my no-knowledge, not in any way a financial advisor opinion (see? ;) ), I'd say that thing has peaked.
 
NYC Mayor-elect vows to take first salary payments in Bitcoin

New York City Mayor-elect Eric Adams said he would take his first three paychecks in Bitcoin when he takes over City Hall in January.
“NYC is going to be the center of the cryptocurrency industry and other fast-growing, innovative industries,” he said on Twitter on Thursday.

Adams, a Democrat, has said he wanted to turn New York into a crypto-friendly city and that he wants to explore a NYC Coin similar to Miami’s. In an interview on Bloomberg Radio after being elected mayor on Nov. 2, he wagered a “friendly competition” with the mayor of Miami, who was the first to set up a so-called CityCoin cryptocurrency.
Er, why? Of all the uses for bitcoin, paying public employees sounds like about the worst idea. Why have a fiat currency and pay staff in bitcoin?
 
Heh, I get this - it's why I keep repeating a similar refrain. :) Only thing I'd "advise", as a complete amateur as well, is to get her divested of DOGE. In my no-knowledge, not in any way a financial advisor opinion (see? ;) ), I'd say that thing has peaked.

It is a small part of the high risk part of that portfolio, right now basically a small amount of $, if you were to look at it that way. This whole portfolio is worth as much as you can imagine a part of a gift for a goddaughter to cost. So I don't mind holding on to it for now, if it tanks the whole portfolio is fine. Being diversified helps. The thing is, whenever bitcoin peaks to a new all time high, it tends to then drag all the other coins along with it, or at least the ones that haven't died yet. How much exactly is another question.. and that's based on what has happened in the past, which by no means indicates that the patterns will repeat.. but I was looking for a meme coin with a dog to add to a small part of this for kicks. If it hasn't hit a new all time high in 5 years, I'll move it over to something else. Just seems fun to have something dog-based for a kid, I wanted something I would be able to chat with her about while she grows up.. i.e. "hey when you were born I bought this for you, and look, it looks like a dog". I doubt she'd understand issues in Africa or blockchain tech or defi until she's much older. So a dog in there somewhere seemed appropriate. By no means would I recommend to invest in doge unless it's fun money you don't mind losing. Whatever you invest in this space - you have to assume that it's goooone. So only invest money you can afford to lose. Especially with meme coins. This portfolio is 95% tech based and 5% meme based.

NYC Mayor-elect vows to take first salary payments in Bitcoin

New York City Mayor-elect Eric Adams said he would take his first three paychecks in Bitcoin when he takes over City Hall in January.
“NYC is going to be the center of the cryptocurrency industry and other fast-growing, innovative industries,” he said on Twitter on Thursday.

Adams, a Democrat, has said he wanted to turn New York into a crypto-friendly city and that he wants to explore a NYC Coin similar to Miami’s. In an interview on Bloomberg Radio after being elected mayor on Nov. 2, he wagered a “friendly competition” with the mayor of Miami, who was the first to set up a so-called CityCoin cryptocurrency.
Er, why? Of all the uses for bitcoin, paying public employees sounds like about the worst idea. Why have a fiat currency and pay staff in bitcoin?

IMO it's a publicity stunt. The Miami mayor is going to get paid 100% in Bitcoin and has made it optional for the rest of his staff to get whatever % of their salary they want in bitcoin and the rest w/ the traditional $. I bet they (the NY mayor and the Miami mayor) have traditional investments (and maybe crypto investments) that yield them decent returns every year. I have not googled their net worths, but I bet the Miami mayor especially makes enough money to live on using interest and whatever investment yields he has set up. Standard rich people stuff. He probably doesn't mind funneling his salary, which he isn't reliant on to live or survive, into a high risk high potential gain investment like bitcoin. I bet he funnels a bunch of his salary into that every month anyway (he seems to be a big crypto shill at first glance). Plus even if he was a bit more reliant on his regular salary, he could just sell the bitcoin right after getting it and get almost the same amount of $ as he would have gotten with a more traditional paycheque. The main objective I believe is to attract more blockchain tech startups and investors to his city. Whether that works out as a strategy is another question, but it could also just be a PR stunt that puts them in the news or whatever. The New York mayor seems to have seen this and said: "We are going to compete with that". It could be a bid to attract some of those migrating (from China) miners, but I'm not really sure. They could just be big on these types of investments and this might not necessarily be any sort of strategy

It does indeed not make sense for your average person to get paid in bitcoin, it's too volatile. You don't want to get paid on friday and your money to drop 30% in value by monday. Sure, it could double in value instead, but that is not something you want to base your house budget on... unless you are already well off enough to not really rely on your salary to get by.. the position I assume these mayors to be in, especially the Miami mayor. I bet he has like $1M+ in a interest yielding account somewhere, and he lives off that.
 
He's not "getting paid in bitcoin" until he agrees to work for (say) 3 Bitcoin annually

This was all put together a bunch of months ago, so the situation right now is a bit different. You're not supposed to reveal your exact investments, but like I said this is a gift-sized amount so I don't mind.
Does she have a registered education fund? A donation there undergoes an immediate increase in value (with the matching government grant). Plus, I'd never sneeze at the effect of compounding returns
 
She does, my brother in law set something up for her. If my (relatively small) portfolio blows up enough it will be tempting to funnel over a chunk of the profits into that pot. We're talking about relatively small amounts though, for now it's more fun than anything. In 10 years we could very well be looking at a more sizeable chunk of change (but maybe not)

The Miami mayor is getting paid in BTC I believe, I must have confused the NY mayor's intent with that.
 
My cousin made a down payment on a house with money made investing in bitcoin.
 
This was all put together a bunch of months ago, so the situation right now is a bit different. You're not supposed to reveal your exact investments, but like I said this is a gift-sized amount so I don't mind. The plan is to liquidate this portfolio in 2035 and use it to pay for some portion of my goddaughter's education needs (and/or a car or a pizza or pencil depending on how much it ends up being worth). She'll be 15ish then, so it seems like a good time to start thinking about higher education.

LOW RISK - 62% (Out of all of the options out there, these 2 are the most likely to survive and still exist in 15 years IMO)
Ethereum (41%)
Bitcoin (21%)

MEDIUM RISK - 22% (Solid tech that has a decent chance of growing and surviving in the future IMO)
Cardano (10%) (The founder also co-founded Ethereum. They are very research-based and have a slightly different take on all of this. One of the visions is the empowerment of the working class and students in Africa)
Polygon (7%) (Ethereum sidechain tech from India that makes everything a lot easier, faster, and cheaper. Rapidly growing ecosystem)
Algorand (5%) (This blockchain has ties to my old university (a bunch of genius geeks) and many other institutions. They don't do much marketing but their ecosystem is continually growing. Seemingly solid research-based fundamentals)

HIGH RISK - 16% (Who the hell knows)
Dogecoin (5%) - (My niece might like dogs when she grows up, so let's do this)
Harmony ONE (5%) - (Similar to Polygon in what it aims to achieve, but not as high profile)
Gravity Finance (6%) - (Decentralized finance solution running on Polygon with unique tokenomics. They are building a place where you can invest your money in various automated ways. Everything is still being built though so who knows where it's going to go)

My lawyer tells me to say that this is not investment advice.

I researched the most out of these particular coins/tokens/chains, but also a whole bunch of ones. I wanted the right kind of mix of different types of tech, different niches, etc. I figure even if the "medium risk" and "high risk" crash and burn, then at least the "low risk" part will lead to some sort of money my goddaughter will be able to use .. probably. I mean. it's always possible Ethereum or Bitcoin die and something else takes over, especially in a timespan of 15 years, so I have to keep an eye on it just in case.. It would be lame if we go liquidate the portfolio in 15 years and it's worthless. So I'm keeping an eye on the developments of all of these so I can mix it up if need be.

By the way, you might think that "genius geeks" might be hyperbole. However, consider that the main Ethereum founder was a student there too. It's actually quite surreal to think about, that a guy who studied in the same building as me and took math and computer science classes in the same building as me.. is now a billionaire.. We did not study at the same time, so I had no chance of running into him, but still. This university breeds tech minds like that, they are responsible for RIM and a lot of other companies. I am by no means one of the genius geeks, I never felt like I fit in there at all

PS: I don't have a lawyer, but none of this is investment advice. I also bought my goddaughter a nice set of books that she can remember me by, so even if this whole portfolio tanks I am still going to be remembered as the cool uncle, unless I just jinxed it
You should make an equal size investment in a total stock market fund and then compare after ten years. :)
 
You should make an equal size investment in a total stock market fund and then compare after ten years. :)

Not a bad idea! But then I'd have double the number of things to track.. even though stocks move a lot slower. Still something I wouldn't mind getting a bit into. Right now I rely on experts to pick stocks for me behind the scenes. Where could I do this directly - as a Canadian? Probably not something you know, but maybe there's industry leading sites I could check that are established in multiple countries
 
Not a bad idea! But then I'd have double the number of things to track.. even though stocks move a lot slower. Still something I wouldn't mind getting a bit into. Right now I rely on experts to pick stocks for me behind the scenes. Where could I do this directly - as a Canadian? Probably not something you know, but maybe there's industry leading sites I could check that are established in multiple countries
Any stock mutual fund that tracks the US total market will do it.

All the big Investment folks have them: Vanguard Total Market VTSAX is the one I use. For the S&P 500 the fund is VFAIX. The annual cost basis for those runs about 0.04%. Not much. A single fund will cover the entire market so you would be only adding one item to your watch list. There might be a minimum investment.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/101515/4-best-total-market-index-funds.asp

Some companies offer ETF versions to avoid minimums. Let me know if you have more questions.
 
Some history here, what might be the very first ever mention of Bitcoin

It's sort of fascinating to read the conversation

Bitcoin Creator Satoshi Nakamoto Could Be Unmasked at Florida Trial
Lawsuit over a $64 billion cache looks beyond the pseudonym to solve the mystery of who created the cryptocurrency

WSJ said:
A seemingly run-of-the-mill trial is playing out in Florida: The family of a deceased man is suing his former business partner over control of their partnership’s assets.

In this case, the assets in question are a cache of about one million bitcoins, equivalent to around $64 billion today, belonging to bitcoin’s creator, the pseudonymous Satoshi Nakamoto. The family of the dead man says he and his business partner together were Nakamoto, and thus the family is entitled to half of the fortune.

Who Satoshi Nakamoto is has been one of the financial world’s enduring mysteries. Does the name refer to one person? Or several? And why has he or she or they not touched a penny of that fortune?

The answers to those questions are at the center of the Florida dispute and of bitcoin itself. Bitcoin has become a trillion-dollar market, with tens of millions of investors. It has challenged governments trying to regulate it and has been endorsed by some. The technology behind it is seen by some as a way to rewire the global financial system. Yet, who created it and why has remained a mystery.
That is all before you get to who controls one of the largest private fortunes in the world.

That is what a Florida jury will try to tackle. The family of David Kleiman is suing his former business partner, a 51-year-old Australian programmer living in London named Craig Wright. Mr. Wright has been arguing since 2016 that he created bitcoin, a claim dismissed by most in the bitcoin community. Mr. Kleiman’s family argues that the two worked on and mined bitcoin together, entitling Mr. Kleiman’s family to half a million bitcoins.

“We believe the evidence will show there was a partnership to create and mine over one million bitcoin,” said Vel Freedman, a lawyer for the Kleiman family.

The plaintiffs plan to produce evidence showing that the two were involved in bitcoin since its inception and worked together. “It is about two friends who had a partnership, and about how one of them tried to take everything for himself after the other died,” said Tibor Nagy, a lawyer who has been observing the trial. The defense said it has evidence that will show Mr. Wright is the creator of bitcoin and never included Mr. Kleiman. “We believe the court will find there’s nothing to indicate or record that they were in a partnership,” said Andrés Rivero, a lawyer for Mr. Wright.

For bitcoiners, there is only one piece of evidence that could conclusively prove the identity of Satoshi Nakamoto: the private key that controls the account where Nakamoto stored the one million bitcoins. Anyone claiming to be Satoshi Nakamoto could show that he or she has them by moving even a fraction of a coin out of it. The mystery of Satoshi Nakamoto is one of the curiosities of bitcoin. On Oct. 31, 2008, somebody using that name sent a nine-page paper to a group of cryptographers explaining a system of “electronic cash” that allowed people to exchange value without the need for a bank or other party. A few months later, the bitcoin network went live, and Nakamoto collected one million bitcoins in its first year.

It was earlier in 2008 that the family of Mr. Kleiman claims his business partner Mr. Wright asked for Mr. Kleiman’s help in what would become that nine-page paper. They collaborated on the white paper and launched bitcoin together, the suit alleges. Bitcoin combined encryption, cryptography, distributed computing and game theory. With bitcoin, two people, anywhere in the world with an internet connection, could transact without a middleman in minutes.

For every single one of the more than 650 million bitcoin transactions, all publicly visible on a ledger called the “blockchain,” there are two strings of numbers that control how the digital currency is moved: a public key and a private key. Anybody can send bitcoin to the public key, or the destination address, which is similar to a bank account. Only the person who controls the account will have the private key and essentially own the bitcoin.

In bitcoin’s early days, nobody cared much about Nakamoto’s identity. Bitcoin had no tangible value and only a small group of backers. Nakamoto was active in its development for about two years, writing on message boards and emailing with developers. In December 2010, Nakamoto, who was known to use two email addresses and have one registered website, stopped posting publicly; essentially, Nakamoto disappeared.

The universe of people with the technical knowledge to create bitcoin is limited. Most of the prominent names in cryptography have been tagged as Nakamoto. All have denied it, and no evidence has ever linked anyone conclusively to bitcoin’s creation. Meanwhile, in 2011, Mr. Kleiman incorporated a company in Florida called W&K Info Defense Research. His family alleges that it was a partnership and that Mr. Wright later tried to claim outright ownership. The defense says there was in fact no partnership.

Mr. Kleiman died on April 26, 2013.

The next year, Newsweek reported that a man with the same last name as Satoshi—Dorian Nakamoto—was bitcoin’s creator. He denied the claim, and on a message board, a one-sentence post from an account known to have been used by the real Nakamoto agreed: “I am not Dorian Nakamoto.” If that was a genuine message from bitcoin’s creator, it is the last public correspondence from Nakamoto.

In May 2016, Mr. Wright claimed that he was bitcoin’s founder. He met with several early bitcoin pioneers, gave exclusive interviews to three media outlets and filled a website with papers he had written about cryptography and bitcoin. Three days later, facing withering criticism, he dropped the claim. He pulled everything off the website and replaced it with a four-paragraph apology. “I broke,” he wrote. “I do not have the courage. I cannot.” He has since renewed his insistence that he created bitcoin. Whether Mr. Wright or Mr. Kleiman possesses or possessed the knowledge to have created the cryptocurrency is contested.

Mr. Wright “has been hacking, bamboozling and fooling people, playing the confidence game,” said Arthur van Pelt, a bitcoin investor who has emerged as one of Mr. Wright’s most vocal critics. “There is no genuine, independent, credible proof whatsoever.”

Mr. Kleiman’s computing expertise was known to be extensive. It is possible that Mr. Kleiman created bitcoin, Emin Gun Sirer, founder of Ava Labs, said, but there isn’t enough information to be sure. “It’s an open question,” he said.


 
Bitcoin Creator Satoshi Nakamoto Could Be Unmasked at Florida Trial
Lawsuit over a $64 billion cache looks beyond the pseudonym to solve the mystery of who created the cryptocurrency



The two critical points here:
  • If either had the private key they could easily prove they "are" Satoshi Nakamoto. As at least one have tried to say they are, but not proved it, I think there is very little chance they actually are.
  • Has it been established that mining bitcoin gives you title of anything? I thought not.
 
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