the dragons.

ryansee

Warlord
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
125
whom are these dragons ? , wht happened to them after gods war. how are they sleeping ?
 
The Dragons were created by the Gods during the Godswar in the Age of Dragons. All Gods created various creatures to use as weapons in this war and most if not all had at least one Dragon. However, at the end of the war when the compact (peace treaty) was agreed, it was decided that these Dragons and other weapons could no longer be allowed to remain on Erebus. For this reason they were sealed away in pocket dimensions where they lie dormant until their Gods have use for them again.

I don't know why Archeron returns to Erebus, but I know that he was frequently disobiedient to his master, Bhaal, and in a sense turned to evil a long time before she did.

Eurabatres was the greatest Dragon ever created, by Amaothon the God of Creation. He returns to Erebus by... possessing Cardith Lorda... helping him become King of the Kuriotates... and then possibly performing a ritual to return him to Erebus. The Sheaim dragon, Abashi, is probably summoned through a ritual as well.

The Illian's dragon was killed during the Age of Ice, but like other creations of the Gods (Angels for eg) Dragons' deaths are not permenent. They return to the vault of their God/where ever they were being stored to recover. The Illian Ritual ''Stir from slumber'' wakes the Dragon and summons it to Erebus.

There are probably dragons belonging to other Gods too which are still dormant.
 
It think it's non-canon, but it may also be worth adding that some of the modmods include Coatlann, a wyvern hero for the Mazatl. Here's the quote:

Coatlann was a wyvern in the service of Kilmorph during the Age of Dragons. The wyverns were among the lesser beasts created in that age, but were still massively powerful and wise. Looking much akin to a dragon - though lacking forelimbs - the wyvern was favoured for its speed and cunning where the brute force of a dragon may not suffice alone.

Coatlann constantly waged war against the forces of Aeron and Mammon during that first age - and survived. When the compact was signed, Coatlann left Erebus and resides on a plane beyond, ready to re-enter battle should the compact be broken and the Godswar restart in full.
 
I've inquired about the dragons myself.

MC said there is also evidence of a blue dragon having existed at one time, although some say this is indeed, drifa, as his skin has a bluish hue.

I would like to think that a blue dragon did, indeed, exist at one point, although I suppose it won't be brought into canonical lore unless Kael gives information regarding it's story, if it ever existed at all (and isn't Drifa like some think).

I've always been a little disappointed at the lack of my most favorite of mystical creatures in Erebus, but I suppose fewer makes each one more important.

I'm a big fan of dragonlance novels though, so that might have something to do with it.
 
Drifa's pedia entry said:
An axe, a plow, a hammer. Tools are the marker of the pinnacle races, clearly distinguishing them from the animals that shared this world alongside them. From their beginning, the most important of these tools were weapons, utilized for protection and conquest.

As man built, so built the gods. The weapon of the gods is not a sword or spear, however. It is the beast, created monsters sent against each other, or against the armies of their rivals. The most frightening of these beasts were the dragons


Dragons are weapons made for the godswar. Kael has stated that some gods made many dragons, while others made few or none. The dragons that appear in FfH2 are the greatest beasts ever made. Lesser dragons have been forgotten.

There is no evidence of these weapons of mass destruction ever mating, but they do have gender at least in terms of personality.


I suspect that Eurabatres was the first dragon, the greatest dragon, and the only dragon made by Amathaon. It is possible that his pseudodragons were made first as a sort of prototype, or as failed attempts to recreate his success with Eurabatres. It is very much in the nature of the Creation sphere to be the most powerful when successful, but almost never successful. As Amathoan is considered the gentlest of the gods, I suspect that Eurabatres was made largely so that he could delegate all of his martial responsibilities to this beast and essentially retreat from the war himself. Being "most powerful creature of the created" means that the Golden Dragon is not only stronger than any other dragon, but also stronger than any Archangel. I'm not sure how his power compared to Cernunnos now that the formerly-strongest-archangel has become a god.

Eurabatres pedia said:
It remembered its glory days, remembered speed, talons, acid and the beat of leathery wings. Above all it remembered fire and burning. There was no nose to smell with, no skin to feel with, but the sensation of heat and smoke and flame lingered.

The consciousness stirred. The gods had lost interest in it and its kind long ago, or yesterday. Tomorrow, possibly. Time and physical space had little meaning in this place, there was only thought. Consciousness. Existence. Existence was the word. Cogito, ergo existo.

This was the place where the war machines of the gods went to... not die. Be stored. Rest. The consciousness would not rest. It remembered when it had been the Golden One, the most powerful creature of the created. Then it had fought the enemy across the planes. With fire, with acid. The enemy was still there, disturbing rest like a tingling pain, a constant drip of water in the darkened room of the mind. How could it be possible to rest without cauterizing this mental sore?

And so, while the others rested, the consciousness had spent all this time-these few short moments-searching for a gate back to the world, a way to complete work left unfinished. Finally, after much trial and error, the mind had broken free, to flit about in an alien world. Physical form, however, would have to come later. That would require help. Rituals would have to be said, a portal created. It would have to enlist the aid of some the diverse, chattering, confused, weak but numerous intelligences that had risen to become masters of this planet since the consciousness had been put to rest.

For many of this place's years, the consciousness had been searching for a suitable host and ally among the occasional spikes of brilliance in a sea of mundane and feeble minds. Some spikes had been heavy and brooding, like a pregnant storm cloud, some sharp and cold as a stiletto. Some had been as wispy and intangible as fog, and some had lit up in bright and shifting flashes of color and noise, signifying a growing madness. Far too many had stung with the taint of the enemy.

None had been perfect, before this one. Awash with potential both magical and cerebral, but still malleable. As the consciousness approached, the source of the spike became clear: a small child crying amid the ruins of a burned homestead.

Their minds would merge, to mutual benefit. One would gain long life and power. The other, eventually, would gain... form.



Ceridwen either awakened her dragon Abashi directly or showed Tebryn Arbandi the rituals needed in order to do so. She allowed him to inscribe a resurrection rune upon her head, which must be dispelled (probably requiring killing the dragon) in order for Tabryn to die.

Abashi's entry said:
Only 4 days. 4 days without sleep, of constant battle. I would have laid down and died for the chance to just rest for a few seconds, but there was no rest here. Every defeated soldier was raised as another member of the undead horde. Within minutes of their corpse hitting the cursed land their arms were twitching again with an unholy life, then they would reach for their weapon and we, who fought and bled beside them as brothers, would be forced to kill them.

We had come through the Aduro Straight, where angels and demons battled across bleeding lands and had thought the worst was past when they came through to the calm Meditor Sea. Our fleet of white sails and cheering men, an army of many nations landed as one on the shores of this island. Was that really only 4 short days ago? How I wished for the days spent in that hell, they are fond memories compared to this land.

The paladins are our inspiration. They fight tirelessly, never questioning, fighting for every inch of ground as if it was any different than the cracked earth we just came from. Even now Vaghan stands surrounded, his armor gleams even on this moonless night and the power of the Empyrean flows through him.

An Ash Bearer comes at me, using his sword to thrust rather than slash. If he was to dismember me I would be weaker when raised as an undead. I parry the clumsy attack but he continues on, throwing his shoulder into me and pushing me back. I stumble into Vaghan and realize this is the Ash Bearers real intent, that he could use me to distract the paladin, to make him vulnerable if only for a second.

I fall out of the way, trying to keep from interfering with Vaghan's fight even if I am sacrificed in doing so. The Ash Bearer comes quickly upon me but is stopped when Vaghan steps over me and slashes through him. I have a brief glimpse of those Vaghan was fighting with, a wraith and a juggernaut of sewn corpses setting upon his now exposed back. Vaghan seems to ignore them, thrusting his arm up there is a flash and a ring of blinding light explodes from him. The wraith is destroyed, the juggernaut reels backwards and is hacked apart by our men.

Vaghan grabs me and pulls me to my feet, "Do not despair, hope yet remains."

Then he is gone. There is only a slight whistle to indicate that anything passed through the night until it turns back towards the army. A dragon of sleek black scales is silhouetted briefly against the sky, darker even than the night like a hole in sackcloth. The dragon spits out Vaghan's remains, a small rain of blood and once perfect holy vestments. Then she roars and I find myself suddenly nostalgic for the days of constant battle.

- Visions from the Pool of Tears and revelation that the Sheaim had awoken Abashi and was using her in the Battle of the Black Tower


AoI civilopedia said:
While the shortest of the Ages of Erebus, the Age of Ice contained its share of epic battles. Battles including: the Slaying of the Blue Dragon by Lucar's horde and the ensuing destruction of the Thraxian civilization; the sacrifice of the Second Mage, Gionn; and the final confrontation between Kyorlin and Mulcarn himself. Warriors who proved themselves in a major battle such as these were often withdrawn to form a lord's personal guard, to preserve them for the next great conflict. Usually they grew old before the expected battle came. They could train the next generation, but further glory was beyond the reach of these heroes.

Not the Illian Maceman. Mulcarn's greatest fighters were frozen, hibernating as statues in his throne room. They would be thawed out to lead his army in its greatest conquests. These Macemen were armed with an icy cudgel and divine protection. Many epic confrontations were preempted when an army routed rather than facing these walking hailstorms.


Nikis-Knight admitted he was thinking of Drifa when he spoke of the Blue Dragon, but every canonical mention of the white Dragon says she is whiter than ivory or even, without a hint of another hue like blue (well, except for blue eyes).


Kael's notes from his D&D games also speak of a Blue Dragon, which is closely connected to Luciaque's Pool.

I prefer to think the Blue Dragon was a servant of Danalin who went mad when his god fell asleep. I suspect that he, like Leviathan, witnessed whatever killed the Aifons and was driven mad by the experience. he would have been a very gentle beast during the Age of Dragons, but in the Age of Dragons would have gone on quite a rampage. Unlike Leviathan, he probably had no problem bringing the terror of the depths to those far inland.


While Drifa was sealed away at the signing of the Compact, Kael has stated that letting a dragon (or other beast, like the Aquilan Fiacra) roam Erebus was in no way banned. I seriously doubt that giving them direct orders to destroy the followers of a rival god would not be allowed though. Danalin was perfectly within his rights when he chose to awaken many of his beasts in hopes of defending the Aifons from whatever happened to them.

The Cult victory text said:
Auric led the generals down into the dragon's chamber. Ice mana in the caverns wall bathed the chamber in pale blue light. The center of the chamber looked to have once been an underground lake, now frozen. Snow covered the surface and the remains of a dragon's skeleton was trapped in the ice.

Auric looked more human than he had when Tasunke entered his tent, though it was only through considerable effort that he was able to appear so. His sleeves were brown with dried blood and his skin glistened with moisture. Since the incident in the tent Tasunke copied Lucian's behavior and only stood quietly and didn't question the dragonless chamber.

Auric walked out onto the ice. Reaching the nose of the dragon skeleton he whispered into what may have once been the creature's ear. Tasunke risked a glance at Lucian, to see how he was reacting to their prize of a giant dragon corpse. But if Lucian was disappointed, or surprised at all, he didn't show it.

Then another ragged inhuman cough tore through Auric. He steadied himself on the giant skull and once he recovered he leaned in close and blew into the creature's mouth. Auric's breath was white with frost and it seemed to grow as it moved through the skeleton. It stuck to the bones like snow and from it grew muscles and flesh. As the group watched Drifa was reborn.

The dragon began to shift as her muscles grew. Still half skeleton Drifa lifted herself from the frozen lake, breaking the ice that held her and unfurling her wings. By the time she had shaken herself free of the lake she was fully formed of scales, teeth and thick muscles. Drifa leaned down and glared at Auric with perfect blue eyes.

"Who are you to awake me so?"

"I am your god, I am the resurrection of Mulcarn. And I am one step away from becoming the god of winter. You will serve me as you served him."

Drifa narrowed her eyes and studied Auric closely.

"To long have I slumbered, but I have a taste for the flesh of kings and though you may one day be a god, you are a king now. If you wish my service, you must sacrifice a king to me."

Auric nodded, unsurprised. He turned to leave the chamber, pausing only to whisper to Tasunke.

"It is your time to serve the god of winter."

The last thing Tasunke saw was Drifa rising up over him.
Note that Drifa is female.


Acheron's civilopedia entry said:
It flittered about impatiently as the ages passed, in this place without time. In this almost nothingness where myths go when dead but not forgotten. And Erebus would not soon forget Acheron, the flame lord, the beast of destruction, the Red Dragon. The earth had trembled when he walked. Centuries old Fir trees had been uprooted when he took flight. When he and his adversaries clashed, it was a sight like no other before or since.

But at the Compact, the power that sustained him was withdrawn. He was as fearsome as ever but his wounds did not heal so fast. When he brought forth his fire, now he got a taste of the pain he inflicted. And one fateful battle, he was not quite fast enough, and he fell, never to rise again.

He could not rest here as most of the others did, content in the majesty of myth. It was not his nature. His nature was that of fire. Fire, the ravenous devourer. Fire, the nimble dancer brought aloft on the winds. And fire, patient when defeated, but ever eager to spring to life again with the faintest fuel. And at last he detected it. The essence of his mistress Bhall. Not the goddess herself, but some people close to her-and Acheron's-fiery nature. They reproduced quickly, grew fast, fought with a roar, and died with rage. Chaotic, but strictly following the laws that governed them. Violent, but leaving a void that encouraged new growth. Nimble, but leaving a lasting mark.

They didn't know they called to him, that they gave him strength, but they did. Their rage opened a portal that he alone could take and returned substance to his long decayed flesh and bones.

Three-Tooth dumped his bag on the ground in Ahepetr. Three human skulls, an iron knife, and a handful of shiny trinkets tumbled out. Half-Nose reached for a diamond ring, and Three-Tooth jumped him. The two orcs tumbled around the ground as the nearby goblins cheered them on, sneaking Three-Tooth's spoils when they could.

They were interrupted by an earth shaking roar. All turned to face him. Resplendent in primal glory, Acheron stood. His leathery skin had the luster of rubies, all the more so when his breath illuminated the dusk with a billowing cloud of fire. Every tooth, fang, and claw shone, sharp and perfect, as if he had not fought countless battles. His leathery wings embraced the humble village. His face wore a fearsome snarl ... or possibly, though it seemed so out of place on this beast, a smile.

As one the orcs and goblins gathered their war spoils and carried them before the mighty dragon, laying them at his feet. In time, the pile would grow to a mountain as the legend was reborn.


It seems that Acheron was slain in the Age of Magic, rather than merely being sealed away like some other dragons.

(It seems a bit odd to me that he would be weakened only at the signing of the Compact, since he is described as rebelling and biting Bhall's hand as soon as she created him. It seems like he would have lost her Ara sooner than the Compact.)


While the pedia would imply that Eurabatres was sealed in a storage dimension from which his spirit escaped, Kael did post at least once that as a child Cardith discovered his bones (or was it his sleeping body? I forget).





In my current version of my modmod, I took the easy approach and made each dragon's bones a seperate unique feature, apparently differing only by which mana they provide. (Right now I still have the normal Dragon Bones providing ivory, but as I don't like the ribcage holding an elephant I may change it to Water Mana for the unnamed Blue Dragon.) Once Stir from Slumber (which is not limited to Illians) is completed, a unit with the final level of the right spell sphere can ressurect a dragon from its bones. (Abashi, Drifa, and Eurabatres are limited to the appropriate civ; anyone can resurrect Acheron.) When defeated, the dragons drop their bones; when created (in any way, including worldbuilder), their bones disappear. (Obviously, Abashi and Eurabatres are no longer their civs' heroes for resurrection or Shrine of the Champion purposes anymore.)



p.s. I'm going back to school tomorrow, and am thinking of posting a new version of my modmod about this time tomorrow night. It won't be as extensive as I'd like, but it has been a while since I've gotten this far without breaking something and I figure it is best to share something before I'm too busy with school work again in order to mod.
 
I assume that moving into creation through Cardith weakened him significantly, or else wouldn't he be able to destroy pretty much everything in his path?

Also- Awesome, now if only I could get BTS working.
 
p.s. I'm going back to school tomorrow, and am thinking of posting a new version of my modmod about this time tomorrow night. It won't be as extensive as I'd like, but it has been a while since I've gotten this far without breaking something and I figure it is best to share something before I'm too busy with school work again in order to mod.

One good quote deserves another. :) From the Great persons Mod:

“Cultuum? Spends all his days up in the Tower of Alteration. Apparently he's trying to build a better universe. Some say he's insane. Every so often he'll mention one of his ideas, though... you know what I reckon? If he pulls it off, I'm moving there.” --Unknown adept on Magister Cultuum
 
Kael's notes from his D&D games also speak of a Blue Dragon, which is closely connected to Luciaque's Pool.

What is this again? I keep seeing it mentioned but can't remember if I've ever seen what it means.
 
FfH is loosely based on Kael's 17 years of D&D campaigns. A while back he shared this post, including a handout he gave players in one of his games. It is not canonical, but does come from Kael and was used in creating the canon.

In it we find a reference to Luciaqua (it seems I misspelled it), a "Marid that lives in Prespur."

It is possible that the "Marids" are the pre-canonical version of the Aifons, but probably more likely that it is a Djinn. (In early versions of the game Djinni were water summons instead of Metamagic. I think I like them batter under metamagic, especially in my version where they are unitcombat_adept units with channeling 1 and 2 who thus get free spell spheres like mages. It does raise some questions as to how those not descended from Nemed can use magic, but there are enough creatures like that already that i guess it does not matter.)

(I'm not sure whether this was a version where Prespur was a city in Oghma's vault fill with a mist release to wipe the memories from Mammon's demons, or in a world formed from the corpse of the dead god Mulcarn with an ocean of mist formed from his blood.)

It also references "Luciaqua’s Pool- Home of the Luciaqua and a great blue dragon."



I am now back in my apartment and about to start working on the modmod again. I'm a bit annoyed that it won't let be use the (faster) wired Ethernet (wireless works fine) until I restart the computer, as I've been using Kael's excel FfH Editor and (probably thanks to the UAC, which I cannot turn of without restarting the computer) it won't let me save it in a form that preserves the macros needed for it to actually edit the xml. I guess I'll have to finalize the modmod (which would include a few xml changes I cannot do with only the editor), test it, zip the needed files, and then restart before using the faster connection to upload it latter tonight.

(I'm also a little bit upset that i left my cell phone and all my pillows at home, that I have an 8am class tomorrow, and that only one elevator in my building is working due to water damage from burst pipes in some of the other apartments.)
 
Well, I have a few qualms ... dealing with the "strength" of dragons, or shall I say weakness. And I have a few suggestions to make them stronger. I believe that Warkirby already has some extremely over-the-top addition, which also makes them graphically larger ... but for those that do not wish to use monstrous creatures (and whom still wish for dragonslayers to be effective) I have a very simple solution

1. Pillar of Fire (or equally powerful spell) **
2. Permanent Stoneskin *
3. Flying
4. slightly extra strength (5-eurabatres, 4-Abashi, 3-Acheron)
5. Entropy I (rust)
6. 20% strength vs Mounted and Melee
7. -20% strength (or extra 20% weakness) to dragonslayer promo

** exceptionally useful add-on
* useful addition

3-7 are just suggestions, while 1 and 2 are necessary additions
 
I'm currently debating whether I should add a 5th dragon to my modmod. What do people think of this possible 'pedia entry?

Potential Blue Dragon Pedia entry said:
The Gentle One. The Guardian of the Placid Sea. The Scarecrow of the Coward God. The Neutered-Guard-Dog of the Waves. Such were the appellations recorded in the oldest annals to refer to the beast whose name mortals had forgotten before the rise of Patria, if they ever knew it at all.

While gods and dragons warred across Creation, Danalin dwelt among his favored people, with this pet safe at his feet. He had been made as a sign to other gods that Danalin could defend his followers if they encroached upon his sacred waters. There were other beasts as well, but the Blue Dragon appeared most able to project the might of the sea onto land if need be.

Danalin and Sucellus were not dragged into the Godswar until near its end, so their beasts saw little action. The Great Blue Dragon fought only 4 days in the war before a truce was called, during which time he did nothing really worth recording. He never turned the tide of a single battle in that age, and rarely dared to lead any assault himself. His only claim to fame was that he was the first beast to retreat when the great truce was called, and was the first to leave Erebus after the signing of the Compact. In Kylorin’s early armies, “Blue Dragon” became a jocular synonym for coward or paper tiger. That would change.

Incomprehensible omens, visions, dreams of torment too horrid to describe, and prophecies that left the prophets catatonic were becoming almost commonplace in the era of the Patrian Civil War. Many signs pointed to a catastrophe looming over the Aifons, and some even named a date for their demise, but no one knew what it was that threatened them. Kylorin’s former student the Aifon Trenton Majosi travelled all the lands of Erebus seeking salvation for his people, but did could find it. The closest he came was uncovering a ritual that could summon his god into Erebus itself in order to personally protect them from whatever doom awaited them. He began the ritual, but then stopped as he realized he was unleashing a second Godswar upon a helpless Erebus, which might save his family but could doom all those he had met on his travels. Disheartened at his inability to personally help, he awakened his beasts to guard his children from their death.

No man nor god knows what happened on that day. No Aifon soul reaches Danalin’s vault, Arawn’s Netherworld, or any heaven or hell. They simply vanished, or were consumed by something too horrible for words. Of the creatures sent to guard them, only Leviathan and the Blue Dragon remained, and they were never the same. Driven mad by whatever they saw, these once wise and gentle beasts became the most vicious creatures in Creation. Leviathan was confined to the waves, but the dragon roams far and wide, leveling cities in his wake. Neither the Fire Rain nor the completion of Trenton’s ritual by the Illians to summon Mulcarn slowed him down. Some claim that not even the new God of Erebus dared to face him, after seeing him devour the seven Aquilans sent in an effort to recruit the beast.

His rampage could not last forever. In the twenty-third year since the deep freeze, the Beast met his match in Lucar and his horde. Legends tell of six thousand men of valor who saved the world from this abomination, only to find it a pyrrhic victory. Lucar’s spear struck true, but as the dragon breathed it last its heart burst open with not blood, but the greatest flood of water ever seen. The army arrayed against him was washed away in the deluge, which rushed down into the valley below, eroding away a whole maintain range, toppling the last of the Thraxian citadels, and drowning all who lived within. When the waters subsided all signs of civilization had been washed to floor bottom of the Aegean, a sea which is said to have doubled in size on that day.


With the resurrection of Acheron, Drifa, and Abashi, rumors spread that this beast too may live again. Some Cultists claim that the Lords of the Aegean demand he be given new life, that he might lay low all land and expand their domain of the Masters of the Depths.



(Also, while I don't really want to make up a name for the Great Blue Dragon as i have nothing to base that on, I am growing a bit partial towards calling him Thalatth, from an obscure variant of the Greek word for sea that also referred to the sea goddesses Tethys or Tiamat.)
 
Personally I didn't like the addition of the Illian dragon, and I think that in the case of dragons less is more.
 
If I do add him, he'll probably be a barbarian (or at the very least Crazed, Enraged, and Burning Blood, and still magic immune so Spirit III won't fix that) Beast that only High Level Speakers can unleash on Erebus. He would also be the weakest dragon in the game.

I'm thinking that rather than Breath Fire, he'll probably have Breath Brine. That would probably act like a combination of Summon Water Elemental and Rust, possible also dealing a small amount of Poison Damage. (It would probably be too much to let him actually change land into sea...plus recent versions of FfH tend to crash when I try to use setTempTerrain to make land sea, even though it used to work fine.) He'd have both Water Walking and Winged, and maybe a new promotion (which would also go to DOMAIN_SEA Beasts like Krakens) that allows him to become invisible/visible while in the water.


I might make it so that he can regain his sanity and be tamed through the Subdue Sea Creature spell allowed by The Spear of Majosi. If so, I'd change this piece of equipment from something you could find in a chest to something that can only be found when exploring the Aifon Isle. (Actually, I might do that anyway.) (Hmmm...I might also consider making this spear + Water III allow an alternate way of reviving him, sane from the start.)
 
Well, I personally think his name should be Aegeas.

Although if your looking for a variation of Tiamat, I would prefer Tethys over Thalatth.


Burning Blood seems a like a bit too much, although I suppose if it were to wear off "before" he got captured it would not be a bad thing ... but to capture it just for it to turn on you again? Worse than a lunatic (before crazed was changed) because he is giant and highly destructive xD

So yes, if Burning Blood is possible to wear of while he is a barbarian, then I guess its ok, but its still pretty crazy. Also, I think Brine should do some area damage ... and also have a secondary, stronger spell connected to this same Brine spell, which acts like Tsunami ... so that if he casts brine near the water, his area effect-attack is stronger, but that he can still use some area effect on land.
 
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