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The Emperor Masters' Challenge

Aelf,

10 turns in trade for some techs is always a good thing ;) if you can take the time to redistribute your forces (position just enough to take that eastern city and prepare for your next conquest) you will also be in a position to defend from napoleon.

i would use the downtime to rebuild your population and redistribute your armies

NaZ
 
NaZdReG said:
Aelf,

10 turns in trade for some techs is always a good thing ;) if you can take the time to redistribute your forces (position just enough to take that eastern city and prepare for your next conquest) you will also be in a position to defend from napoleon.

i would use the downtime to rebuild your population and redistribute your armies

NaZ

You think like I usually do. But some of the more aggressive players would not agree, and they might be right, given Napoleon's advantage in size and income. We'll see what others have to say.

Anyway, who gave this thread the ratings? That's nice :) Thanks!
 
good trade, but could be better, AFAIK
lots of other techs available...

I would go on for a while if you think you can capture one more city in the next few turns (i'm not sure it's doable though).

Have you seen a french unit?
I'm pretty sure it's a no fighting war you have with nappy.

My natural move would be to conquer all of mongolia except the christian holy city, then sue for peace for as much tech as possible.

But if you can't capture anything in the next 10 turns, it's a lost trade...
or if nappy units become a problem, you would need your troops against him.

That's the 2 only reasons i can see for accepting the deal.
 
That's a tempting trade at first glance, but what do those techs really do for you? If the Oracle has already been built, Priesthood isn't worth much. I'd demand Calendar from him instead of the offered techs and gold, and if he balks, he dies.

Cabert, what is your thinking behind NOT capturing Old Serai?

Interesting that the computer chose the Skirmisher rather than the Spear to defend against a Keshik. What's up with that? It's certainly another strike against Mali's UU, which several people have been dissing.

Aelf, how is your economy and research doing? It was hard to tell from the last few screenshots. Glad you got the gold mines back on line, but what about cottages?
 
What's the down side of warring vs napoleon, razing as you go and extorting techs to finish?
 
If I'm extorting techs out of people I usually capture a few cities, exch techs and gold for peace. extort techs out of the victim (yes or no doesnt matter) then 10 turns expires and I go to war again, this time with all of my units in position to take 3 or so cities within a couple of turns. if you can sue for peace again and take more techs so much the better. repeat until their empire crumbles to dust ;).

if you can get calendar then so much the better, I haven't really gone over the map to see how many resources you can get out of plantations but whatever you can take from him in return for peace is a good thing.
especially if napoleon broadsides you (unlikely but possible) you could always try to give up the techs you got from the first war to get peace out of napoleon.. though hes next to die I hope

NaZ
 
If Napolean is not chomping at the bit to kick your teeth in, then there's no pressure to let up on Khan. Remember, I think HE asked for this fight, you're just being a very accomodating neighbour. Ans sooner or later, Napolean will learn how accomodating you can be...
 
Checked the Save

I say you should go on and capture Besbalik as long as you can handle those Keshiks and still have units left over to defend that city from Napoleon I doubt He'll send any units to your far northern cities due to that Dense Jungle.

The quickest route to the north is through Turfan and Beshbalik so try to keep control of those cities,

There's also a possiblity that Napoleon will send Gallies from Paris up north for the quickest route to your lightly defended northern cities so keep in mind of that.

Btw Khan has 4 Cities if you go to da Dipomacy Screen... where do you think the forth city is???
 
Kill the basterd till he at least gives up the Calander tech. There is lots of Silk to be developed. But if you can't damage him enough since you need reinforcements, THEN i would take the offer. He declared war, so you might even trade after peace. Certainly if you can get Budhisme.

Uhm, you dont have Col already right? So who founded CoL, since I can see the religion in Ning Hsia. Kubai doesnt seem to have it....
 
Sisiutil said:
Cabert, what is your thinking behind NOT capturing Old Serai?

if you want to extort something, you must leave at least one city.
Old serai is a good candidate because:
- it is new
- it is going to get "swallowed" culturally (at least, the borders of timbuktu will prevent any expansion)
- with some luck, he could build the shrine

= easy prey in a 10 turns, and can become more juicy, won't be able to "escape" and rebuild from there
 
cabert said:
- it is going to get "swallowed" culturally (at least, the borders of timbuktu will prevent any expansion)

Keep in mind that Timbuktu is only generating 2 culture per turn right now. If Khan ever converts to Christianity, it's Timbuktu that could be "swallowed". Still, that's a long ways off, and doesnt provide sufficient reason to pull troops from the front right now.

Also, Khan has an additional city we haven't seen yet. Scythian is somewhere out there. I'm not sure of the ordering of Mongolian cities, but I think it's newer than Old Sarai. My guess would be in the jungle somewhere...
 
malekithe said:
Keep in mind that Timbuktu is only generating 2 culture per turn right now. If Khan ever converts to Christianity, it's Timbuktu that could be "swallowed". Still, that's a long ways off, and doesnt provide sufficient reason to pull troops from the front right now.

Also, Khan has an additional city we haven't seen yet. Scythian is somewhere out there. I'm not sure of the ordering of Mongolian cities, but I think it's newer than Old Sarai. My guess would be in the jungle somewhere...
Isn't Scythian a barbarian city name? Likely a marginal city if my memory is correct.

I think pausing for ten turns is well worth the cost, though calender would be better than the two technologies initially offered.
 
For some reason I am never able to extort techs. And I war a lot and play on the high levels. That is not something I would count on.
 
Araqiel said:
Isn't Scythian a barbarian city name? Likely a marginal city if my memory is correct.

If Scythian is a Barb City... if you check the map in the saved game there's a barb city (black broaders) east of France it could possibly be there
 
As far as what to do next... My vote would be to continue the war against Khan. There are two primary goals in this effort. Eliminate his source of horses and take Beshbalik. Finding out where is other city is, taking Old Sarai, and taking his capital would be nice, but might require more resources than can be mustered in the timeframe we're looking at.

Severing his supply of horses could be more difficult than you'd think, as Beshbalik is probably stocked full of Keshiks (judging from his still-high military power and the early screenshot). You'll likely need an axe or sword to kill whoever's guarding the horses and then a couple of spears to protect them from the oncoming assault. If the spears die defending the pillager, it's no big deal. They will have, most likely, taken many keshiks with them.

In order to take Beshbalik, you'll most likely need a fair number of catapults. I'd bring 5-6 cats, 2-3 spears, and 3-4 axes/swords. That'll require basically your entire current force plus a couple of cats (and maybe a spear). The cats are probably going to need to suicide to take the city, but, by the 3rd or fourth one, they should no longer be suicide missions. At this point, you may wish you had left the cats un-promoted so that you could give them city raider promotions when needed. This, in general, is one thing you need to work on. Leave troops unpromoted until you know exactly what promotions they're going to need. This allows them to a) better react to whatever situation they're in and b) quickly recover from collateral damage.

I'm not confident that the war can easily be continued onto French soil. His power graph is quite high, which means it's all sitting in his cities. It'll take considerably more catapults (and the troops to protect them) in order to wage a successfull French invasion. On the plus side, he doesn't seem to have any desire to launch an offensive of his own, so there's little risk in attempting to take a city or two. On the whole, though, I'd do a little bit of scouting in his territory before deciding if an invasion is called for.

On the domestic front... Keeping the spices near Turfan is important. Get a spearman on there ASAP. It's going to be a prime target for Keshik raiding parties. Unless you're planning on an invaion of France, I'd lay off the whip for a while, at least until the unhappiness settles back down. You need to start mixing in some domestic buildings along with your military soon, especially in Timbuktu. Decide which cities are going to be focusing on commerce through the rest of the game and start getting a library or something in place there (mixed in with some whipped catapults). Your cities near the front should probably lean more toward military production in the near future. Also, you might consider spending a few turns chopping an additional couple of workers. You're going to need them soon.

This game isn't going to get easy anytime soon, and it's definitely not a foregone conclusion one way or the other at this point. I don't think you've captured enough land yet to stop the warmongering. Taking the entire continent shouldn't be neccessary, but you should at least eliminate one opponent, and cripple the other. Doing that sooner, if possible, is obviously better.
 
theimmortal1 said:
For some reason I am never able to extort techs. And I war a lot and play on the high levels. That is not something I would count on.
The key to getting technologies out of an opponent is to have a large army near one of their cities, and you can't have crippled them beyond all hope. If they only have 2-3 marginal cities left they won't pay for peace with technology in my experience.
 
I say finish the Mongolians. They won't give you anything worthwhile to back off. Then if the forces are in place, then take the fight to Napolean...
 
Marrying two viewpoints together, and for good reason, I will make a dash for Beshebalik and then sue for peace, extorting techs out of Kublai. Which techs will depend on what are available, but I am not really in favour of extorting Calendar (which IMO is unlikely anyway) as it will remove the obelisk as an easy source of culture in our newly captured cities.

Capturing Beshebalik will bring us near Napoleon and make future action against him much more convenient. Trying to capture Karakorum is not practical due to its proximity to Paris, and I'll let Kublai keep Old Serai. Maybe he will convert to Christianity or burn a GP there for a shrine (free shrine!).

I hope upkeep doesn't kill us. Going to play the next round now.
 
The loss of obelisks can be compensated with library. The city's you are now capturing are larger and have less hapiness being conquered. So whip for a library, you prob. need it anyway. 5 turns and a culture pop.

You are going to need the hapiness resources, when war continious...

I am still curious who have researched CoL, seeing Ning Hsia....
 
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