The Emperor Masters' Challenge

[aelf]

Round9: 950AD - 1136AD

Just a quick update. It's late and I'm tired.

I divided our invasion force into two. Two cats, two axes and a sword for Besancon, while the rest headed towards Tours. Why so many for Besancon? Well, you never know what could happen. There's more than enough units in the other stack anyway. Tours was as lightly defended as ever:

And Napoleon tried to sneak a settler with two spears out of it, of all things.

A free worker for me

I hadn't promoted most of our catapults, following someone's suggestion that I tailor their promotions according to the situation. I decided to give the two cats attacking Besancon Drill I to improve their chances of damaging the lone longbow. I think it worked ok, although both died in the attempt. Besancon fell to the sword and was auto-razed. Tours fell on the following turn.

Anyway, we met our first other continent AI, Roosevelt.

Looks like there indeed is a tech gap, although I thought he was probably only a few techs more advanced than Napoleon. I signed open borders with the off-worlder to help improve relations as he's a heathen.

Anyway, we discovered CS and I weighed the options it gave us in the diplomatic arena:

This seemed like the best deal we could get. I didn't want just Theology and a paltry sum of gold. I checked how well CS could bribe Kublai into fighting his former ally:

That's the best deal for a bribe. I accepted it to avoid any chance of being backstabbed by Kublai (indeed, he became Friendly) and to prevent the Khan from trading CS to Napoleon (couldn't trade if they're at war). And we could use Compass to catch up on tech and for harbours to improve our economy.

Speaking of which, our empire was mostly busy with more economic builds in the meantime. A few more courthouses were built or building, forges built and whipped, markets built and whipped and harbours started on. Coupled with Bureaucracy (which I forgot to switch to for 2 turns ), this round of building should improve our fortunes. Only 2 more catapults were built, but things were going well enough on the war front not to need more.

I thought that would be enough for now. There were no other objectives really worth taking at the cost of more upkeep. What I wanted was to extort a tech or two from Napoleon and leave my two neighbours clutching at each other's throats and ruining themselves. Unfortunately, when he was willing to talk two turns later, Napoleon wasn't ready to part with any techs yet. I guess we'll have to take out Marseilles to the east of Rheims and try again. Sent our units heading in that direction once a few of them had healed.

And we met another off-world leader:

Catherine, and she is the founder of Hinduism. That's worrying. She will be very rich and dangerous (at this point, however, the GNP graph rate Roosevelt much higher). She must have traded quite a lot with Roosevelt, who is Friendly towards her.

I stopped playing when we discovered Machinery (which, by the way, I chose to get maces to help us conquer our continent). Damocles' sword is hanging over Marseilles.

I think it should be razed. It's too far from our core cities and too close to the Mongolian border. I hope Napoleon would realise his weakness and give us a tech for peace after that.

 

[aelf]

A look at how our empire is faring compared to the rest of the world:

Our GNP is still pathetic compared to the off-worlders, but it is already the highest on our continent.

We are actually out-producing the Americans. That looks good.

And clearly we are beginning to affirm our supremacy on the continent. It's still a long road to continental domination, but I think we are well on our way.

As the diagram above shows, the inter-continental tech gap is becoming clearer. Hopefully we can catch up quickly when we become the largest empire in the world by far.

Regarding the next course of action, I would pause the war and upgrade our CR units to maces before continuing the campaign against France, with the aim of capturing all the remaining French territories and Paris. This next campaign would be followed by a war against Kublai, who has happily settled the eastern coast of our continent:

He would have to be broken immediately after Napoleon is eliminated. This is the war plan that I drew for our future campaigns:

The red arrows represent offensive movement, while the blue arrows represent non-offensive movement of troops. They are numbered according to the sequence of their execution, with the attack on Marseilles being the first step. Step 2 to 5 (red) would be executed without any intervening period of peace. Any comments on these plans?

What should we research next? I'm thinking of Engineering, since Kublai is likely to focus on mounted troops and would upgrade his Keshiks to knights eventually. We must have enough pikemen by then to be able to face him effectively. We could also use the extra unit movement. And I don't think we can win the Liberalism race anyway.

Once again, I need your advice and opinions. Hope I didn't screw up anything in this round.

 

[malekithe]

Why raze Tours? It's a holy city. I think my next target would be Tours and Rheims. If anything is to be razed, it's Besancon, which can't be captured anyway.

Whoops, must have flipped them in my head after looking at the screenshot...

 

[pigswill]

Have you noticed that KK doesn't have iron?

 

[kniteowl]

In the near future you have to find a way for the AI's on the other continent to war with each otha to slow down their teching.

Hopefully not the entire continent is Hindu...

 

[aelf]

Have you noticed that KK doesn't have iron?

Yeah, but somehow the AI always manages to find some source or other, probably through trading. Should we risk it?

Creating a rift on the other continent would be nice and very helpful. But if that is not possible, do you think we can win by pure size?

 

[kniteowl]

Creating a rift on the other continent would be nice and very helpful. But if that is not possible, do you think we can win by pure size?

Possibly... beeline to Democracy after you've eliminated everyone off your continent swap to Emancipation, and cottage spam and qucikly grow and work those Cottages ASAP, Next Beeline would be Communism for State Property becuase of your Huge Empire.

Btw Which Victory are you going for Cultural? or Space Race?

Personally I'd go for Cultural (It's easier), You have enough Religions on your continent to do that.

Space Race Would be ALOT more challenging , Possibly go for Internet Suicide tactics... Might not work as it appears everyone on the other continent is a Big Happy Family so you cant slow down the construction of the spaceship with wars. Spys??? maybe........

 

[michaelumich]

Great thread! However, I would suggest another strategy to win easily.

1. Build the second city close to the Stone, and build stonehenge, oracle, and pyramid in the capital (with the stone).
2. Once the skirmisher is produced, declare war on Mongolians or French. And more skirmishers produced, declare war on both. Pillage them as much as possible and guard in their lands. (Don't take cities untill catapult is produced)

Every civ has its own special unit, we should leverage their powers as much as possible. And skirmisher is a really powerful unit in early stage.

I always play at levels of at least immortal(normal/quick) or deity, and have played all the civs with their special units. Manma Musa is the easiest one to win. It always lead in technologies almost all the time. With such a good starting point, we should be able to easily win all kinds of victories if following the above strategy.

 

[cabert]

Great thread! However, I would suggest another strategy to win easily.

1. Build the second city close to the Stone, and build stonehenge, oracle, and pyramid in the capital (with the stone).
2. Once the skirmisher is produced, declare war on Mongolians or French. And more skirmishers produced, declare war on both. Pillage them as much as possible and guard in their lands. (Don't take cities untill catapult is produced)

Every civ has its own special unit, we should leverage their powers as much as possible. And skirmisher is a really powerful unit in early stage.

I always play at levels of at least immortal(normal/quick) or deity, and have played all the civs with their special units. Manma Musa is the easiest one to win. It always lead in technologies almost all the time. With such a good starting point, we should be able to easily win all kinds of victories if following the above strategy.

you're somewhat late, aren't you?

 

[voek]

Space Race Would be ALOT more challenging , Possibly go for Internet Suicide tactics... Might not work as it appears everyone on the other continent is a Big Happy Family so you cant slow down the construction of the spaceship with wars. Spys??? maybe........

I think Culture is out of the question, it would take too long and Cathy or Roose will have launched way before you reach the legendary status. Space is going to be very hard too, for the same reason, only you have prob better production considering your size.

I think the best option is Diplo. Although also very hard with a tech lag (means little trade power) and those two being buddy's. But I think it's your only chance. Therefore Free religion becomes important, else they will hate your guts.

Time to cottage spam...

@malekithe Still not worried about the other continent?

 

[Murky]

you're somewhat late, aren't you?

I think it was a joke.

 

[Sisiutil]

I think Culture is out of the question, it would take too long and Cathy or Roose will have launched way before you reach the legendary status.

Not necessarily. I recently achieved a late cultural victory in which I didn't really get serious about it until around 1800. Mind you, this was two levels down, on Prince, so it may not be repeatable on Emperor.

 

[futurehermit]

you're somewhat late, aren't you?

/on topic: I'm looking forward to seeing if this game can be salvaged I think the victory will depend on whether or not you can boom your infrastructure fast enough to come in range of the other continent toward the end of the game.

I would say finishing off napoleon and kublai has to be done as soon as humanly possible. You have to get your continent to yourself so you can grow your infrastructure in peace.

One alternative might be that if you're going to go diplo, just focus on wiping out napoleon. Keep Kublai as your buddy, hoping he'll vote for you. Keep the rest of the continent for yourself and continue to develop your infrastructure, hoping you can crack the relations on the other continent...

 

[voek]

Not necessarily. I recently achieved a late cultural victory in which I didn't really get serious about it until around 1800. Mind you, this was two levels down, on Prince, so it may not be repeatable on Emperor.

That's exactly the difference Sisiutil. Not to put you down or something, I have great respect for your ALC threads. But the techpace is quit some different between Prince and Emperor. The bonus the AI receives is not to underestimate.

When I see two financial civs getting rich at that other continent, being far ahead in the techrace, I dont think you have enough time to make a Culture win. Esp. since we haven't focused on it from the start.

 

[aelf]

Wow, almost everybody seems pessimistic about the prospects of this game. I don't know about that. From my experience, the situation seems quite grim too, but it's not often that I get stuck on a continent with two warlike civs that tech poorly and face a bigger and peaceful continent on the other side. There must be some sort of balancing factor, right? If I take my neighbours out early, finishing them off before industrial, I should be able to compete with the other continent, right?

In any case, it seems imperative that we take the two clowns out asap. So we shall. Going to play the next round now.

 

[Argoth]

- deleted -

 

[aelf]

I will not post an update tonight. I need some sleep. I don't want to be too hasty, but let's just say good game, everyone. It doesn't look like we can win now. Looking at the situation, I can't imagine how we can. The other continent is apparently as peaceful as we feared, and they are out-teching us so much it's not funny at all

I will post the updates from my last round very soon, probably with a short post mortem at the end. I think the game should subsequently be open for anyone who wishes to tackle the challenge and try to win. Best of luck at that.

My sincere apologies that I've wasted your time in this thread. I hope you've enjoyed it, anyhow. Yes, I'm aware I've disgraced myself I think this is the first and last Emperor's Challenge from me.

Thanks for your support up to this point, though

 

[futurehermit]

Aelf, I don't think you've disgraced yourself and it certainly isn't a waste in my eyes.

It's a learning experience, it's not easy to win a game on emperor (at least for most of us).

I mean, you got stuck with only 2 civs on your continent and they were both b*st*rds. On top of that your starting location really sucked imo. I mean where was the food? You only had 2 respectable cities other than your capital and the rest of the area between you and Kublai kinda sucked.

In hindsight, I think the game would've been more successful if you had put all of your efforts into going through Kublai, sacking his capital, and then sacking Napoleon's capital shortly after to cripple him. Then, if you needed a breather, you could've sued for peace with Nappy and then finish him off. After that, you might've had more of a chance booming infrastructure and competing with the other continent.

But of course hindsight is 20/20 and who knows if that would've even made a difference or been as easy as I make it sound (likely not).

Anyways, I wouldn't beat yourself up. I would just chalk it up to a tough game. I mean what do you want when you go for a win? Civs to trade with while the other continent is at war so they go slower in the tech race so you can zoom ahead. You were just on the other side of the equation this game

 

[Sisiutil]

I agree with futurehermit, this was not a waste of time and you have NOT disgraced yourself at all. It's been very educational, and I hope you will attempt another game soon. I did not expect to win every ALC game when I started posting them, but they just happened to turn out that way. I almost wish I had lost a couple--defeats can be extremely informative, often more so than winning. (But then again, losing is not as much fun as winning.)

I'm beginning to get the impression that on the higher levels you have to move fast to establish a few cities and then move equally fast to attack your nearest opponents, while your workers spam cottages hither and yon. Perhaps you took a little too long doing these things; that's the sort of tactical lesson you can take away for next time.

If you do end the game, I would urge you to do so gloriously. Go down fighting. Everyone has been saying that to salvage this game you have to take over your continent, so why not make a last-ditch attempt to do that? I'd be interested in seeing if you can accomplish that; then with cottage spamming and some key techs like Liberalism (for Free Speech/Free Religion) and Printing Press, try to put yourself back in the tech race. The AI generally doesn't do inter-continental invasions very well, so I'd be tempted to try that. Or if you live long enough, go for Communism, Spies, and sabotage, combined with some dirty diplomatic tricks.

 

[suspendinlight]

I hope this won't be the last Emperor challenge if you lose. I enjoyed reading the thread and hope to see another one.