The Frank plots sending troops to America's backyard

[innonimatu]

I don't see what's "disgusting" in the idea to help a country at the brink of civil war. I support such an intervention and I feel soothed Paris decided to move forward. However, I must say it's something tricky. Indeed, whatever happens, both rebels and loyalists will consider France is supporting the ennemy side. However, such an intervention should be promoted for the good of the stability of the region... which always means somewhere the stability of the whole world.

About the "Monroe doctrine", is it something decided between US citizens ? Then I don't see for which reason America would have the right to interfere in a bilateral agreement between Haïti and France. Seleucus, you're denying Haïti independance by saying so. Moreover, the stability in Haïti isn't only good for France but it's also good for the US.

Also Haiti is one of the main tradecentres of the Cocaine trade. The corrupt Aristide regime have skimmed off plenty of dollars by allowing imports from the producing countries and then sending it off to the US.

Naturally if Aristide is removed the resulting chaos might mean that the cocaine trade to the US consumers might be interrupted. The depletion might lead to turf wars and general unrest in the inner cities of the US.

Pulling this thread form the forgotten pile because it so perfectly illustrates my warnings about how the mass media only prints the truth after a decade or more has passed and public interest has moved on. During a cirsis, it prints the lies governments want printed.

It was a "civil war". Aristide was "corrupt" so the media said, so people believed. Now 18 years later one of the "newspapers of record", the NYT, prints a piece with this admission:

In 2003, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, a former priest who became the first democratically elected president after decades of dictatorship, launched a campaign demanding that France repay the money it had extracted, with television ads, street banners and a legal team putting together the elements of an international lawsuit. The French government responded by assembling a public commission to study relations between the two countries, but quietly instructed it “not to say a word in favor of restitution,” Thierry Burkard, the French ambassador to Haiti at the time, recently told The New York Times in an interview.

The commission dismissed Mr. Aristide’s claims as the ploys of a demagogue and portrayed the independence debt as a “treaty” between Haiti and France — making only passing mention of the French warships looming off the Haitian coast to enforce the demand in an annex to a 2004 report.

A month later, the French government helped remove Mr. Aristide from power, saying it was trying to prevent Haiti, which was heaving with turmoil, from spinning into civil war. But while French officials have long said the restitution claim was not the reason for Mr. Aristide’s ouster, Mr. Burkard acknowledged it was “probably a bit about that, too.”

Mr. Burkard must have a book deal ready, and likes the publicity of talking about his memoirs. Haiti is so thoroughly wrenched and without government that it can not now even make an effort to embarrass the french government. The "secret" can be mentioned over tea - or wine - in an interview. It wasn't ever a secret of course. It was plain to see at the time. But wow to anyone who said it then, "conspiracy theorist", the french overthrowing a government, mon dieu non. It was an "intervention" for "stability in the region". Not for stability of french neocolonial rule. Or is weird condominium with the US in Haiti, taking turns to keep the place down.

The rebels didn't spring up spontaneously, were set up for the purpose of overthrowing Aristide, and indeed solely because he was proving a dangerous embarrassment and giving ideas to people in other looted countries. This game is not new at all. And it remains in use (why, just look at what is happening in the world), and it will remain in use.

The Americans arrived at the gates of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide’s house before dawn on Feb. 29, 2004. Flanked by security officers, a U.S. diplomat climbed the mansion’s steps to see the president — and ask for his resignation letter before whisking him into exile.

Mr. Aristide, a former Catholic priest who had railed against the dictatorship from his pulpit in the slums, and the first lady, Mildred Aristide, stepped into a diplomatic car to the airport and boarded an American plane from the tarmac.

Their destination was unknown even then. They were simply being removed from the country.

Haiti’s two former colonizers described their joint action as both a rapprochement after their friction over the Iraq War and a humanitarian mission to avoid a looming civil war in Haiti. Haitian rebel soldiers were in the north, threatening to soon take the capital and Mr. Aristide. Pro-Aristide and anti-Aristide protesters had clashed violently in the streets. Secretary of State Colin L. Powell called Mr. Aristide’s claim of being kidnapped “absurd.”

But Mr. Burkard, the French ambassador, told The Times in a recent interview that France and the United States had effectively orchestrated “a coup” against Mr. Aristide by forcing him into exile.

 

[Broken_Erika]

ZOMBIE THREAD! RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIVES!

Thread Necromancy is bad.

 

[innonimatu]

Not when it proves a present relevant point, it isn't. Several actually.

Credulity in media narratives of good guys versus bad guys that are many years later walked back or admitted to have been entirely fabricated.

And some of the people who fell for this one are still around.

The NYT for some reason found it relevant to public these pieces on Haiti now. I could have opened a new thread, but this one was precisely about how the whole thing was seen back then.
How many forums can you find with a 20 year history recorded? Why not use it when it is relevant?

Me thinks some people fear embarrassment

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: 2004! that is an oldie but goodie and quite out of date. I'd only been here for three years. @innonimatu If you would like to discuss this, please start a new thread. Thread closed.