The Futility and Illogic of DUI Pot Laws

[LegionSteve]

I once knew someone who claimed to have driven while tripping. I don't believe he went more than 10 feet down his own drive, though. He may not actually have moved the car. Nor even got in it.

Driving under the influence of LSD is extremely stupid and should not be attempted by anyone. Having said that, driving on LSD when it's snowing has a really awesome Star Wars jump to hyperspace kind of effect.

 

[civver_764]

I drove on LSD once, but it was 3:00 in the morning and there was no one else on the road. I felt like there was something guiding me back to my house and it went really smoothly.

I wouldn't recommend it though, waaaay too unpredictable. Driving is dangerous enough by itself.

 

[filli_noctus]

While excess alcohol makes drivers throw caution to the wind, cannabis makes them extra cautious -neatly balancing out the lowered reaction time.
It's a nice argument but it does ignore other effects of cannabis consumption. The low level paranoia common to cannabis intoxication rather counteracts the extra caution, unless on a rarely used road late at night. The stoned driver, instead of driving 10mph under the speed limit as they would prefer instead tries to stick as close to the limit as possible to avoid tipping of a hypothetical cop coming round the equally hypothetical cop car. Because of this and the difficulty in maintaining focus the stoned driver will either drive with one eye glued to the speedo (never a good idea) or their speed will slowly drift up until they notice (stoned drivers have real difficulty maintaining a constant speed). The tendency for the thoughts of a stoned person to drift off on tangents at every possible opportunity does not stop once they get behind the wheel and causes difficulties with concentrating on the road and surroundings. Add to this the subtle alterations of perception and tendency to jump at shadows making driving after taking cannabis a risky proposition but all in all it's considerably more dangerous to drive whilst drunk.

 

[Farm Boy]

Those talking on cell phones while driving still need to get the business end of a prison cell before the potheads. Scum. Everylastoneofthem.

 

[El_Machinae]

I drove on LSD once, but it was 3:00 in the morning and there was no one else on the road. I felt like there was something guiding me back to my house and it went really smoothly.

I wouldn't recommend it though, waaaay too unpredictable. Driving is dangerous enough by itself.

I respect you less as a person, due to your behaviour with drugs.

 

[MobBoss]

I'm not a big fan of anyone driving in an altered mental state.

Ayup. This is the winning comment of the thread thus far.

Those talking on cell phones while driving still need to get the business end of a prison cell before the potheads. Scum. Everylastoneofthem.

Lots of states are enacting laws making it illegal to talk on a cell phone without a hands free device.

 

[TomYo689]

I think what will be a bigger barrier than the facts of what drug does what is the social aspect of changing opinions and laws

 

[Farm Boy]

Lots of states are enacting laws making it illegal to talk on a cell phone without a hands free device.

That's a peppercorn thrown to appease people without addressing the functional issue. The problem isn't really that you are holding the phone, otherwise your big gulp or cigarette would be as large a danger. The problem is that you are talking on the phone, which is different from talking with somebody sitting in the car next to you. No, talking on the phone at all, hand-free trickery or not needs to be punished as harshly as the decision to drink alcohol and then endanger your fellow man. I believe we kick that up to second degree murder in some areas. Sounds about right for talking on the phone unless you have a very. darn. compelling. reason for needing to be on the phone while operating over a ton of vehicle at speed in the proximity of others.

 

[MobBoss]

That's a peppercorn thrown to appease people without addressing the functional issue. The problem isn't really that you are holding the phone, otherwise your big gulp or cigarette would be as large a danger. The problem is that you are talking on the phone, which is different from talking with somebody sitting in the car next to you. No, talking on the phone at all, hand-free trickery or not needs to be punished as harshly as the decision to drink alcohol and then endanger your fellow man. I believe we kick that up to second degree murder in some areas. Sounds about right for talking on the phone unless you have a very. darn. compelling. reason for needing to be on the phone while operating over a ton of vehicle at speed in the proximity of others.

In consideration of developing tech, I dont think thats going to be possible. Its the people that hold the phone to their head or even try to text while driving that are the worst problems. Using a hands free device that responds to vocal commands isnt so bad.

 

[Farm Boy]

In consideration of developing tech, I dont think thats going to be possible. Its the people that hold the phone to their head or even try to text while driving that are the worst problems. Using a hands free device that responds to vocal commands isnt so bad.

It isn't for lack of the hand holding a phone that accidents are caused. I smoke cigarettes while driving, and they are in my hand. In an emergency reaction you are not likely to drop either thing, or anything else you are holding. The problem is the conversation. The conversation is distracting and it doesn't follow the tempo of the drive like a conversation with a passenger does. If we can go so far as to draw blood to identify and punish those who drive intoxicated I am certain we can come up with a means to identify and punish those who make the stone sober decision to endanger the lives of innocents with their frubbin' phone.

 

[ace99]

I don't see how talking on a hands free device differs from talking to someone sitting next to you in the car, or behind you. Or yelling at your squawking kids in the backseat. It's about the same level of distraction.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Indeed. So can changing the CD or station on the radio.

I think it is highly revealing that at least some who have no actual experience at all with marijuana think it is so risky to drive a car when stoned, but they actually rationalize and defend activities like talking on cell phones that has been shown to cause many fatalities even with hands-free technology.

The biggest danger to safety by far on the highways is due to so many people not remaining nearly alert enough while driving. Many people simply don't pay much attention at all when operating a car, and they frequently get distracted or fixated doing other activities.

 

[Farm Boy]

I don't see how talking on a hands free device differs from talking to someone sitting next to you in the car, or behind you. Or yelling at your squawking kids in the backseat. It's about the same level of distraction.

If you actually turn around to the backseat, sure - that's worse since your eyes actually left the road. Duration of distraction is important here.

Talking with somebody sitting next to you is different in almost all the ways that are important. Driving is a physical activity, like playing music or a sport. It follows a tempo and people in the car will be involved in that tempo as well. Conversations will pause and resume as inputs from the road vary, in the case of sighted passengers they also identify road risks if at a lower rate than the person driving. A conversation on the phone does something important. It takes the mental state of the driver and gives it two separate tempos to try and follow as the speaker on the other end is not an active participant in the drive. This matters. This is where the distraction and increased risk come from, not from the piece of plastic in hand.

 

[Borachio]

I'm inclined to agree.

Mind you, my brother once drove heavily into the back of queue of stationary cars because I distracted him pointing out some amusing sign by the side of the road. Oops! Large oops! And it was my car.

 

[illram]

I'm fine erring on the side of caution. If the compromise for legal recreational cannabis is criminalizing driving while high, then I'm totally fine with that.

 

[MobBoss]

You're not going to stop people from communicating. So, the next question is how to get them to communicate in a more safe manner?

I see a hands free device as being less distracting as one not hands free. Both are communicating, but one restricts an arm. The other doesnt.

@Form about the radio stations. You're absolutely correct, which is why many cars now offer radio controls on the steering wheel or voice commands to mitigate that.

 

[Formaldehyde]

If you actually turn around to the backseat, sure - that's worse since your eyes actually left the road. Duration of distraction is important here.

Talking with somebody sitting next to you is different in almost all the ways that are important. Driving is a physical activity, like playing music or a sport. It follows a tempo and people in the car will be involved in that tempo as well. Conversations will pause and resume as inputs from the road vary, in the case of sighted passengers they also identify road risks if at a lower rate than the person driving. A conversation on the phone does something important. It takes the mental state of the driver and gives it two separate tempos to try and follow as the speaker on the other end is not an active participant in the drive. This matters. This is where the distraction and increased risk come from, not from the piece of plastic in hand.

Some people even frequently look at the person they are talking to while driving for extended periods of time. But I would agree it is less dangerous than having a phone conversation to many people.

My brother has scared the hell out of me having a cell phone conversation about work when I have been in the car with him. It is amazing how distracted he can become on a regular basis without having a so-called accident.

But I have been in the car with other people who can handle it without any difficulty at all.

 

[ace99]

Meh you might as well start pulling over people who haven't gotten enough sleep, people who are stressed out, people who are hungover, people who are fantasizing about sex/food etc...distraction can't be eliminated. Pull over people who look like they're being dicks on the road.

 

[warpus]

I'm not a big fan of anyone driving in an altered mental state.

Driving under the influence of marijuana is a lot safer than driving drunk, but I agree.

If you're drunk, overly tired, high, on medication, or in a really angry mood, you should really not be driving.

Having said that, how good is the method they use to determine if you're high or not? As far as I know THC stays in your system for weeks.

You're not going to stop people from communicating. So, the next question is how to get them to communicate in a more safe manner?

Sign language.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Meh you might as well start pulling over people who haven't gotten enough sleep, people who are stressed out, people who are hungover, people who are fantasizing about sex/food etc...distraction can't be eliminated. Pull over people who look like they're being dicks on the road.

I think at least part of the solution is to start targeting those who are clearly not paying enough attention.

Some people chronically have accidents. Some can be seen even reading or applying makeup with the rear view mirror while driving. Some can be seen feuding with their kids in the back seat. Some chronically drive in the left lane while even doing less than the speed limit in many cases. Some remain oblivious to even emergency vehicles behind them while even refusing to properly clear intersections so they can get through.