The Good State of Offtopic

[Manfred Belheim]

You are incorrect.

No you.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You are incorrect.

Great practices, these! You can just feel the genuine discussion of concerns after accusing a few people of being unethical and not backing it up or applying any self-consistent standards whatsoever! I suppose it does keep that train of "quote argumentative reasoning then never address it" going.

You are also out of bounds claiming "repetitious", as there are several things in that post that were not mentioned previously in this thread, including a request for standards that you're using to make false claims. I will take this as a conclusion that there's no valid counterargument, but you are of course welcome to actually participate in discussion and prove otherwise .

TL : DR - if I were incorrect, you could demonstrate that. But you can't.

 

[Synobun]

It is not shocking when someone is unwilling to provide academic citations about a subject that is predominantly about feelings.

 

[Gori the Grey]

It would be cool to do a Works Cited page and have one of the entries be "My own feelings"

 

[Synobun]

It would be cool to do a Works Cited page and have one of the entries be "My own feelings"

I think it could work.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It is not shocking when someone is unwilling to provide academic citations about a subject that is predominantly about feelings.

Or unable. I've probably revealed more about my life on CFC than anywhere else online, and it took years before I was comfortable enough here to mention being physically disabled. My life is not extensively documented on Facebook or other social media sites and there are no photos of me online (I've checked by doing an image search of my own real name, and none of the photos that come up are me). That's how I prefer it, and so I've consistently refused to have photos taken for the last 25 years or so, as back then people didn't automatically plaster their whole lives on the internet.

I was recently asked to provide a photo of my dad and information for an online obituary, and refused. My family's privacy in some regards is important - he wouldn't have consented to that, and back when he was first admitted to the nursing home they asked if they could include his photo in any of their online postings or promotional material and I said an emphatic NO.

So when I state something about my life, or things I know or believe due to my past life experiences, there are often no citations possible because my life has not been documented, nor has my family's life been documented with the exception of a book written about the people in the farming community where they lived decades ago. I'm briefly mentioned in that, but it's so out of date that it doesn't matter anymore. My life wasn't normal by the standards of the society in which I grew up, so there's always been some sort of anomaly about it.

 

[Berzerker]

I was out on the golf course sitting next to my buddy in the golf cart when he got a facebook request to 'friend' someone or whatever its called. The request came from a family member of mine who had died a couple years earlier. My initial thought was "Ghost" but apparently someone had hijacked my loved one's acct and was sending generic requests out en masse.

 

[Hygro]

Sorry about your dad, Valka.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Sorry about your dad, Valka.

Thank you, Hygro.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think it could work.

I was an instructor in the navy. We were required by Naval Reactors command to have references for everything we taught the operators, and the lesson plans were annotated with sources for everything. Mostly reactor plant manual or equipment tech manuals provided the sources, but every lesson plan had at least a couple references to OLAL, Vol 1. Apparently years before the staff had written down all the things that everyone "just knew" that they thought needed to be passed on but no one knew where it came from and put it in a binder, and titled it "Official Legends and Lore." By the time I came along no one actually knew what OLAL stood for, or where to find the book.

 

[Hygro]

“Written down”

 

[Hygro]

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2014/05/cyberbll.html

Who bullies the bullies? The famous final article.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I was out on the golf course sitting next to my buddy in the golf cart when he got a facebook request to 'friend' someone or whatever its called. The request came from a family member of mine who had died a couple years earlier. My initial thought was "Ghost" but apparently someone had hijacked my loved one's acct and was sending generic requests out en masse.

Someone ought to set up a central service (and I can already see how this would open up massive opportunities for abuse, but nvm) where you supply all your log-in information for social media accounts, email addresses, etc. You then set a time-out period of your choice, and if you don't log in within that period to confirm that you are still alive, it will shut down and delete all your online accounts for you.

 

[Synobun]

No that's just the thing:
We don't think it's not predominantly about feelings.
We think it's about the observable conduct of the other parties. Maybe she was bullied. I don't think so. Subject to at times rough pushback, yes, bullied no.
But maybe she was.
The point is that you could show that to me. It's likely prohibitively laborious.
But you could claim that if we did all this labor we would find that she was bullied, that your familiarity with the evidence suggests that if we went all fine-tooth comb, we would find that.
And you could make evidence based arguments with less labor involved that may or may not partially convince me.
But the claim that "Mary was bullied" is true because she felt she was, is not acceptable to us, categorically.

Oh no! The claim isn't acceptable to you? That's truly unfortunate.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Oh no! The claim isn't acceptable to you? That's truly unfortunate.

I thought that too, briefly. Then I realized that what he feels is acceptable makes absolutely no difference to me.

 

[Hygro]

Oh no! The claim isn't acceptable to you? That's truly unfortunate.

The logical conclusion of not-metatron's position is wolves in sheep's clothing using faux victimhood to dominate.

I think a lot of us have experienced manipulators like that.

But the logical conclusion going the other way is bad too. Manipulators claiming every grievance, every expression of victimhood, is a power play or false flag. Pretty familiar problem as well.

Case by case is the answer, and I for one appreciate metatron's thoughts on the matter.

 

[ulyssesSgrant]

Oh no! The claim isn't acceptable to you? That's truly unfortunate.

Sure, there was a lot of push back against Mary's ideas, but she was sarcastically mocked for merely stating her opinion. Ironically this is much closer to bullying than anything Mary faced in that thread.

 

[Berzerker]

I usually get a straw man before the sarcastic mocking of my intellectual inferiority begins

 

[Valka D'Ur]

No that's just the thing:
We don't think it's not predominantly about feelings.
We think it's about the observable conduct of the other parties. Maybe she was bullied. I don't think so. Subject to at times rough pushback, yes, bullied no.
But maybe she was.
The point is that you could show that to me. It's likely prohibitively laborious.
But you could claim that if we did all this labor we would find that she was bullied, that your familiarity with the evidence suggests that if we went all fine-tooth comb, we would find that.
And you could make evidence based arguments with less labor involved that may or may not partially convince me.
But the claim that "Mary was bullied" is true because she felt she was, is not acceptable to us, categorically.

There is more than one way to bully someone on a forum and some of them are not public. Bullying via PM is common - and since it's against the rules to quote PMs in public, how can you criticize someone for not citing/quoting it?

Mary did not only feel bullied, but to those of us who have experienced online bullying ourselves, it is very apparent when it's happening to others. Some posts might as well have been neon signs.

 

[Lohrenswald]

I've decided not to leave OT forever again, but I am going to unsubscribe from this thread