The Great DoC UHV v 1.10 challenge

[strijder20]

Now that the next version is up, I'll start and host the new UHV challenge thread.

Rules are as usual: attach a save, give some screenshots of you achieving your UHV goals and mention gamespeed/difficulty/start date. SVN or not does not matter, as things are probably only getting harder with K-Mod being integrated

If a game has a lower score than another, but was played with a different start date or if the UHV was achieved earlier, then it will still be listed.

The main category is Monarch/Normal, but other games will be listed too in a separate category.

LEADERBOARDS

Monarch/Normal

Other

MONARCH/NORMAL

Arabia
1280 AD (virtual), 18810 (blizzrd)

Aztecs
1860 AD, 3052 (Barbuesque)


Babylon
700 BC, 10222 (Neshalin)

China
1020 AD, 24113 (Youtien)

Corea
1240AD, 4518 (Neshalin)

Egypt
170 AD, 13025 (Neshalin)

England
1775 AD (virtual), 7862 (barbuesque)

Ethiopia
1910AD, 4275 (Neshalin)

France
1766 AD (virtual), 9347 (barbuesque)

Greece
130BC, 23821 (barbuesque)




Holy Rome
1260AD, 8272 (Ororo)

Inca
1799 AD, 4621 (Neshalin)

Italy
1709 AD (virtual), 7906 (barbuesque)

Kongo
1751 AD, 3258 (Ororo)

Maya
990AD, 3236 (Neshalin)
1600AD, 3755 (Neshalin)

Mali
1670 AD (virtual), 3542 (Jusos2108)

Moors
1280 AD (virtual), 6945 (blizzrd)

Netherlands
1739AD, 3117 (SultanRedSnake)

Phoenicia
T143 (Virtual), 16113 pts (Barbuesque)

Poland
1605AD, 4185 (Neshalin)

Portugal

1650 AD (virtual), 6985 (barbuesque)

Rome
455 AD, 26911 (barbuesque)

Russia
1846 AD, 7915 (barbuesque)

Spain
1630 AD (virtual), 12697 (blizzrd)

Tibet
1360 AD, 10553 (blizzrd)

Viking
1465AD, 9411 (Neshalin)
1170 AD, 7989 (Ororo)


OTHER

England (Monarch/Epic)
1758 AD (virtual), 11389 (Strijder20)

Mali (Emperor/Normal)
1685 AD (virtual), 2149 (Swarbs)

Mongolia (Monarch/Epic)
1420 AD, 9141, 600 AD (Strijder20)

Moors (Emperor/Normal)
1300 AD, 9726 (outofthebox)

Rome
561 AD, 32033 (Gigaz)

 

[strijder20]

And I'll start the contest by posting the first UHV:

Mongolia, Monarch/Epic, 600 AD

1420 AD, 9141

Sorry, forgot to save So now I'm basically breaking my own rules, but it'd be a bit ridiculous to take the autosave and replay just to prove to myself I'm not cheating.

The Mongolian UHV is broken ATM (razing cities is not being tracked) so I gave myself three legendary cities in order to calculate my score (I did it in China, so I wouldn't get border expansion and thus an inappropriate score).

Spoiler :

I razed Krakow, Gdanksk, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Brandenburg, Merv and Novgorod, by the way.

Empire size when I achieved 12% land:

Spoiler :

Mongolian Balkan and Mongolian Germany

Spoiler :

Mongolian Middle East

Spoiler :

Mongolian Tibet and Mongolian ... uh... Mongolia

Spoiler :

Mongolian China

Empire over time:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I relied on Keshiks (what else) to do the fighting: had a lot of them at the end and lost even more of them.

Spoiler :

I invaded China first. They did not really offer much resistance, apart from the stray pike and hill city. Korea helping bringing Bejing's defences down was nice too.

Tibet (previously China's vassal - didn't spawn at war with them) vassalized to me.

I followed the silk road and conquered Kazachstan right after the Seljuks collapsed. Then I conquered Persia and Iraq, and found my way to Europe blocked by the Turks. Those happened to be at war with Arabia, so I declared war on them for the OB and conquered a couple of their cities.

Constantinople was still Indie and I took it before the Turks could. HRE had already expanded into the Balkans so they were the next target. I also got Drama and a GA (one of the Silk Road cities I flipped had a theatre in it) at this point, and got the required land.

HRE capitulated to me after I took two Balkan cities, Vienna and Venezia, and then Poland DOWed me. Took out their cities, razed Indie HRE (they collapsed), razed Viking Hamburg, DOWed Russia and 'won' (it didn't trigger ) the UHV.

Stability was atrocious, I had -55 - in a golden age. Didn't collapse, but of course that wouldn't have mattered anyway as the last goal (raze 7 cities) can be done without a huge empire too.

 

[Power_of_Beer]

Monarch/normal, 3000BC start

Early expansion consisted of mopping up the remnants of the Roman/Persian Empires. Byzantines did not spawn. I flipped a some low strenght units who served as cannon fodder against fortified cities, while the camel archers destroyed damaged units. Persepolis had 2 GGs settled. I settled 3 more, which allowed lvl 4 Camel archers out of the gate (after the Seljuks).
India peace vassalized which was pretty much gamebreaking: 1) They were teching like mad, I doubt I could have beaten them with the tech goal if they survived the Mughals (rly... 10 turns to Military Science in 1050?) 2) Lots of resources for my cities to grow 3) OB to spread Islam.
After conquering Greece and Balkans I stopped expansion and repelled the Seljuks (2 cities were building Camel Archers non stop). This army then went to Iberia and crushed Isabella; Cordoba peace vassalized in the meantime. I tried to open borders whenever possible (HRE and Poland is possible in the beginning when they are still cautious) to spread Islam everywhere.

Distribution of Islam & score:

Spoiler :

Save file is in the bug report thread, in case anyones interested.

 

[youtien]

Tried a different placement this time -- settle Fuzhou(stone) as 2nd city, and Qiqihaer(horse at northeast) as 8th. popped iron working in Japan. Conquered Patliputra and Delhi around 500-600 AD. Didn't get MoM this time but it didn't matter. Founded Catholicism and Islam, so I need only 2 GP to open a golden age, then it is 2/3 - Versailles - Taj Mahal till the end. Should be able to win before Mongol spawn, but didn't make it. Can do better next time.

 

[youtien]

This time I did a lot better. I was so lucky that I popped CURRENCY from hut in about turn 90.

10 cities: Luoyang - Shanghai - Chengdu (for gold) - Hanoi (for ivory) - Taipei - Beijing on silk - Anshan 1E from horse - Guangzhou - Qiqihaer 1E from horse(on coal hill) - Patliputra(captured on turn 180).

Tech path: AH - writing - math - mysticism - polytheism - MONOTHEISM (got it before Persian spawn) - the wheel(to enable GS to bulb alphabet) - priesthood (turn 90) - switch to forced labor + pantheon - oracle metal casting(and buy monarchy from... not Persian, but Babylonian!) calender(traded techs with Indian and Greeks) - construction - aesthetics - literature - THEOLOGY(got it before 50 AD) - FEUDALISM - compass - DIVINE RIGHT(at turn 181) - music - guilds (got machinary from Indian) - patronage - banking - optics - philosophy(stole from Indian) - constistution - education - replacable parts(incomplete) - liberalism bulb rifling(incomplete).

The trick is treat Indian and Korean well, Indian capitulates easily, Korean can provide code of laws, horseback riding, machinary and engineering. Raze Tibet, our culture alone is enough. I forgot to raze Khmer as well though.

I built Hanging Garden in turn 94 in Luoyang, which is unusual and lucky, it helps a lot once and in late game. I expected Greeks or Romans to trade marble to me, but I got only 2 turns of marble and trade route was blocked. Still got great library and the Colosseum in Luoyang. Switched to vassalage + OR after feudalism, which is worth getting before 600AD.

Luoyang got both Terracotta army and the Colosseum, means +75% military production speed, but I didn't build much army in fact, only 2 catapults, 3 war elephants, 4 cho-ko-nu to conquer India before 600, we were too busy building wonders.

I noticed that you can build MoM in medieval era too this version(was classical era only), and since I was the only one who have Z-ism, I waited till Indian gave me their marble to build it.

Great people : 1. GS bulb alphabet; 2. GS build academy; 3. GS, keep 4. GM in 680, start golden age! 12 turns! Then I built Versailles in Luoyang, then I got 2/3 UHV, then I built Taj Mahal in Beijing. Won in 1020.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

^ See Leoreth, there's the "Middle Kingdom of China" dynamic name error that I encountered before.

 

[Barbuesque]

I meant to post that for a while in the 1.9 challenge thread, but since 1.10 just started I feel this thread is more appropriate.

I am wondering what we are considering as "legit" in regard to the spirit of this challenge:

As an example, common sense would say that using the worldbuilder is out. Setting up the table using one civ before switching to the one you really want to do is out as well.

But what about reloading? By reloading until the desired results are achieved (flipping a lot of cities and units on spawn, getting to some wonders, unlikely combat results). Honestly, when I do that, I fail to see the fundamental difference between that and using the worldbuilder but I am pretty sure some people will disagree.

Let's hear some opinions on that topic.

 

[strijder20]

Barbuesque,

It's true that reloading starts will get you a better score than just playing every start you get. However, at least that requires a minimal amount of effort, while you can achieve a great score with WB with just a few clicks.
Reloading saves is also dubious, yes, but I think it's preferable over the use of Worldbuilder.

 

[archcapitalist]

i'm not going to actually play for any of the hall of fame, but i agree that reloading is ok. it is different than worldbuilder in that you do actually have to put in the effort of loading starts, much like putting in the effort of managing your cities.

and if you can't reload, does that mean you have to play through every game you start. for how long? that would just be miserable. and if you can quit at some point than where is the line? it would just arbitrary like, you have to play ten turns, or to the first uhv goal.

if people had to play through heinous starts just so that their next game counts for the Hall, it would only encourage cheating, since this is on the honor system, or people wading their way through unfun games that they know won't get a high score.

 

[Neshalin]

600 AD start on the brand new v1.10! Full resource yields from cities is a very nice bonus for Inca. I started with cities on both stone resources (Huamanga and Caqonatambu, razed Tucume to settle Chan-Chan on the cotton, and a fourth city all the way up north on the gold (Quitu). Quitu is the most likely place to face the conquerors and very easy to hold with both a hill and river boosting defense.

Researched Sailing before settling the latter two; free harbor is worth the wait. Calendar, Bronze Working, Feudalism next. I decided to go with Levies to hold off conquerors. I don't trust that archers and Quecha warriors will do the job.

Unfortunately, Barbarossa found me before Feudalism even completed. Plague!

Fortunately, he must have been too early and no troops attacked me. I immediately switched research to Metalcasting so new cities would get a free Forge, and quickly settled on the northern oil and near Buenos Aires. Later cities would follow to eventually settle all the important places in South America. I stationed settlers on the south coast and Chile, but fortunately they weren't needed and I could stick to 10 cities. Finished researching Biology just as the game ended, and even managed to steal something useful for extra points:

Spoiler :

I was first to Physics and suspect a space race victory would be very achievable (and boring) from this point. South America is quite nice with Biology. I'm not sure how to continue from here; Medicine first would provide immunity to any further plagues (I think I had 3 or 4, including one near the end just for meeting Mali while exploring). Steam Power gives powerful levees AND faster workers to truly improve the mainland, as well as textile industry. Steel for Ironworks could be nice too.

 

[Neshalin]

The score is nothing special, I'm afraid, but at least here is a baseline for Babylon. Randomized tribal villages make the initial exploration phase a little more entertaining. The starting warrior went east and discovered Mysticism. A hut in southern India gave some gold. Everything else was just experience, maps and angry warriors.

Babylon made a worker first, then warrior to scout west, and a second worker at size 3. Researched Writing, Masonry, Polytheism. My Library finished a turn before Priesthood, so spent one turn of production on a Granary that would be completed much later. With Priesthood done, I switched to Forced Labor & Pantheon, built The Great Sphinx first - Egypt got the Pyramids way early - and timed The Oracle to complete the same turn Monarchy was researched, in turn 78.

Shushan never flipped to me and Persia spawned at war, so unfortunately the last turns were spent spamming bowmen rather than improving score. A low-chance engineer rushed the Temple of Artemis, and a Great Merchant showed up late with nothing useful to do. Why no scientists

Spoiler :

 

[Barbuesque]

and if you can't reload, does that mean you have to play through every game you start. for how long? that would just be miserable. and if you can quit at some point than where is the line? it would just arbitrary like, you have to play ten turns, or to the first uhv goal.

if people had to play through heinous starts just so that their next game counts for the Hall, it would only encourage cheating, since this is on the honor system, or people wading their way through unfun games that they know won't get a high score.

This is actually the way I play - dealing with whatever hand I'm dealt and only very rarely reloading. But I can understand if most people view it differently, and I'm fine with it.

What I'm actually looking for is a consensus on the definition of the honor system. So far there's 2 posts (yours and Strijder) saying worldbuilder is not ok, and reloading is ok.

 

[Neshalin]

Worldbuilder is cheating, clearly. Any challenge could be instantly completed using the Worldbuilder.

My personal view regarding reloading is to only use it when I make a fatal mistake or it would otherwise become apparent I can't reach my goals. I restarted my Inca game from the beginning after holding off an English stack so long that Spain had settled in South America. Sure, you could probably kick them out by force, but that wasn't the strategy I had in mind, so I reloaded from the beginning and changed my build/research order. This Babylon game was a single playthrough, but I've played it many times before where a reload was in order; maybe losing out on an important wonder or tech race and knowing you can barely beat them by backtracking a few turns. It's a somewhat common strategy for getting first to Liberalism. I'd also consider reloading a Greece start with the galley on the west side, delaying the settlement of Byzantion.

Reloading to reroll combat, huts or great people spawns might be considered gaming the system, or perhaps even cheating.

 

[Barbuesque]

Reloading to reroll combat, huts or great people spawns might be considered gaming the system, or perhaps even cheating.

I like that that definition. Could we say reloading to modify RNG results isn't in the spirit of the challenge?

 

[archcapitalist]

Worldbuilder is cheating, clearly. Any challenge could be instantly completed using the Worldbuilder.

My personal view regarding reloading is to only use it when I make a fatal mistake or it would otherwise become apparent I can't reach my goals. I restarted my Inca game from the beginning after holding off an English stack so long that Spain had settled in South America. Sure, you could probably kick them out by force, but that wasn't the strategy I had in mind, so I reloaded from the beginning and changed my build/research order. This Babylon game was a single playthrough, but I've played it many times before where a reload was in order; maybe losing out on an important wonder or tech race and knowing you can barely beat them by backtracking a few turns. It's a somewhat common strategy for getting first to Liberalism. I'd also consider reloading a Greece start with the galley on the west side, delaying the settlement of Byzantion.

Reloading to reroll combat, huts or great people spawns might be considered gaming the system, or perhaps even cheating.

ah yeah i believe so. i meant reloading a new start. not just reloading a few turns back.

i think you should always be able to load a new start, regardless of of reason or current place in game

 

[Sarius1997]

AHH, the challenge for 1.10.
It´s time to load up the dutch, and play my favorite civ again.

 

[blizzrd]

I have previously run similar challenges for RFC v1.86 and v1.84 and gratuitous use of worldbuilder was certainly considered cheating.

No consensus was reached on reloading. But as random-seed on reload is disabled, how would reloading be able to change anything?

 

[Sarius1997]

I have previously run similar challenges for RFC v1.86 and v1.84 and gratuitous use of worldbuilder was certainly considered cheating.

No consensus was reached on reloading. But as random-seed on reload is disabled, how would reloading be able to change anything?

It isn´t changing anything, i tried it some time ago(my first try on german UHV), it didn´t change a bit.

 

[blizzrd]

My point being, if reloading doesn't change RNG, why does it matter if reloading happens or doesn't for the challenge?

 

[srpt]

you can reload and then do another action that uses the RNG before the silly fight you lost at 90%+ odds and get the win.

or just wait a turn.