The hell is wrong with you, Catalonia?!

[Traitorfish]

What does "accused of homophobia" actually mean? Or for that matter, "prove his innocence"? There's some pretty vague phrasing, there; do we have any other sources that might elaborate on the details?

 

[luiz]

Nothing to see here, keep moving.

In Spain, like in most European countries there are a number of cases where the onus probandi (sorry for the latinism) is on the defendant. For instance in patent law or commerce law. In some cases of discrimination and sexual abuse too. However such inversion cant EVER be applied if we are speaking about a criminal case, such thing would be inconstitutional and then this law would be revoked by the Spanish Constitutional Court, since catalonia is still in Spain till proved otherwise...

Isn't sexual abuse a criminal case, and as such onus probandi should fall entirely on the accuser? I would hope so anyway.

 

[warpus]

This is exactly what we said would happen. But we were told we were overreacting.

Is that exactly what you said? It seems to be quite a bit different from all the doomsday scenarios you were predicting.

Didn't you say marriage equality was going to lead to people marrying animals?

I'm a law student and I tell you that this is madness, contrary to any civilized standards.

This is nothing but the return to inquisitorial system of justice. Fortunately international tribunals will not let anyone be convicted just for not proving their innocence. At least as long as Cataonia is part of the EU.

Would that even stand up in court? It seems to me that it probably wouldn't, if somebody challenged it.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Isn't sexual abuse a criminal case, and as such onus probandi should fall entirely on the accuser? I would hope so anyway.

Maybe abuse is not the correct word in English. Which would be the word for "acoso"?

 

[luiz]

Maybe abuse is not the correct word in English. Which would be the word for "acoso"?

Harassment. And that makes more sense.

Still, I don't know how one could prove that he didn't sexually harass someone else.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

True. it can and in fact leads in many cases to false accusations and such dirty things.

OTOH to prove it is usaually very difficult for the real victim who usually is the weakest part, so we are in a conflictive field here.

 

[Kyriakos]

It is a bit curious, though, that Spain rapidly got to red alert mode just a few days after that whole independence issue reaching a crucial point with the court ban and all...

As for the exact topic: i am not seeing why any country has to have laws that (apparently in this case) would not reflect the popular view. So why should they legislate for larger than in other cases fines in case of verbal (?) or physical attack on homosexual people if it is not the majority/popular view..

ps: i never am of the view that supposedly 'protecting a minority group more' will lead to 'equality'. It likely will lead to more bad blood between the different groups, and that very evidently already the case where applied.

 

[Arakhor]

Still, I don't know how one could prove that he didn't sexually harass someone else.

You can't. It's the same sort of daft, unthinking argument as atheists needing to prove that God doesn't exist. Extremists are bad, no matter what they support.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

It is a bit curious, though, that Spain rapidly got to red alert mode just a few days after that whole independence issue reaching a crucial point with the court ban and all...

As for the exact topic: i am not seeing why any country has to have laws that (apparently in this case) would not reflect the popular view. So why should they legislate for larger than in other cases fines in case of verbal (?) or physical attack on homosexual people if it is not the majority/popular view..

ps: i never am of the view that supposedly 'protecting a minority group more' will lead to 'equality'. It likely will lead to more bad blood between the different groups, and that very evidently already the case where applied.

Do you think homosexual marriage is not supported by most Spaniards? It is, and by an overwhelming majority i think.

 

[Old Hippy]

Harassment. And that makes more sense.

Still, I don't know how one could prove that he didn't sexually harass someone else.

my reading of it is that having harassed someone you then need to prove that it was not due to their sexuality, or face the additional fines, not a really good solution, to be sure, but it would still need to be proved that you actually did harass someone to start with...

 

[Kyriakos]

Do you think homosexual marriage is not supported by most Spaniards? It is, and by an overwhelming majority i think.

You are too late cause i had already ninja-edited my post to cover for myself obviously not even reading the OP by that time, and so later on quickly altered my post to be about anti-homosexual attacks and not actual marriage

 

[Thorgalaeg]

touche

 

[Arakhor]

That Zorro smilie is the best thing in this thread.

 

[useless]

This is exactly what we said would happen. But we were told we were overreacting.

There is a simple solution to this C_H; don't be homophobic and you won't be punished

 

[Domen]

http://jurist.org/paperchase/2014/0...marriage-as-between-one-man-and-one-woman.php

Thursday 5 June 2014 at 7:44 AM ET / Slovakia amends constitution to define marriage as between one man and one woman

[JURIST] The Slovakia National Council [official website, in Slovak] amended the country's constitution [text] on Wednesday to specifically define marriage [legislative materials, in Slovak] as the unique bond between one man and one woman. Of the 123 members of Slovakia's parliament that voted on the measure, only 18 voted against adopting the amendment [voting record, in Slovak].

Slovakia is the future of Western Slavic Civilization:


Link to video.

 

[luiz]

There is a simple solution to this C_H; don't be homophobic and you won't be punished

The problem is the whole "presumption of innocence" thing.

Otherwise, we might as well say: "don't want to be lynched? Don't commit any crimes!"

 

[Domen]

don't be homophobic and you won't be punished

If "homophobic" has exactly as 'clear and explicit' definition as "racist" or "fascist", then it won't be easy.

The problem is the whole "presumption of innocence" thing.

Presumption of innocence is an accepted standard in criminal law of a free society. That's why leftists hate it.

 

[useless]

The problem is the whole "presumption of innocence" thing.

Otherwise, we might as well say: "don't want to be lynched? Don't commit any crimes!"

Except black people were lynched because they were black, not because they committed any crimes.

 

[Domen]

So the correct version is:

"Don't want to be lynched? Are not black? Don't commit any crimes!"

 

[timtofly]

I am sure that the sexual revolution even blurred the lines of color.