The Immortal Challenge 1: Apocalypto

[aelf]

[continued from previous post]

Now comes the bad news. Tensions between the Romans and the Turks were coming to the fore again:

And we still couldn't take sides. We had lucrative deals with Mehmed that would affect us significantly if cancelled (especially those involving health resources and gpt). Besides, cutting off trade relations with him would probably earn us his emnity for good. Of course, we got another negative from Augustus and he's down to Pleased. I'm afraid he might cancel our DP soon.

After Assembly Line was researched, we went back to researching Radio, a valuable tech that the AI does not prioritise.

Then we got our next GP:

Another GE! And I think it's mainly due to the accumulated points from the Great Wall. Thanks, Louis! Now we have a shot at getting the Space Elevator.

I stopped playing when Radio is discovered. The tech situation now:

We have Liberalism, Electrity and Assembly Line on Shaka, Radio on Augustus, Electricity and Assembly Line on Mehmed and Radio and Assembly Line on Ramesses. Unfortunately, WFYABTA is still the rage with Mehmed and Shaka, otherwise we would probably be able to get Railroads and Artillery from them.

The power graph:

After signing the DP with Augustus, I was not too concerned about this. But now that relations with the Romans are beginning to deteriorate, we might want to churn out infantry from a few cities. What do you think? I browsed the SDK in my efforts to divine the future. Am I right to say that Augustus won't attack us as long as his attitude is +8 and above?

The GNP graph:

Don't look at the wrong green line Yup, that's us at the top. And you thought Japan had an economic miracle after WWII.

The production graph:

Not too good. Augustus is leading, but it's probably due to a GA. How should we improve our performance here?

Maps of the world:

So what now? What do we research next? Artillery and Rocketry or Industrialism? That might depend on whether we're going for the Internet. Now that it seems there's only one clear tech leader (Augustus), I'm beginning to doubt the usefulness of the Internet to us. And I think we stand a good chance of grabbing the Space Elevator. I wouldn't refuse the opportunity. Should we, then, formulate our plans around getting it instead?

Also, I'm thinking of building the Eiffel Tower and Rock and Roll now, for culture and some guaranteed extra happiness. We would probably be able to get them, but it would mean that we are not focusing on military builds yet again. What say you?

By the way, Mehmed seems to be willing to declare on Shaka for the right price. Should we stir up some trouble on the other continent? Would it help us in any way? It certainly wouldn't do anything to improve relations between Augustus and Mehmed.

I think it won't be long before we reach a conclusion to this game.

 

[Sisiutil]

May I just say it's hilarious to see so many dead-end techs available in the tech board! Also educational to see that you can, indeed, bypass some paths of research completely, just like the press releases for Civ IV say.

If you get lucky and the DP with Rome stays in place a little longer, the duration may raise its diplomatic bonus by +1 and kick Augustus back into friendly territory again. You're already running his favourite civic and have the maximum (+4) for trading, so I don't see what else you could do to improve Aztec-Roman relations--beyond going to war with him, and given your dismal power rating, I'm not sure you want to do that.

Speaking of power, if you want to build military, you could try a technique I just used in my Mali ALC game, prescribed by cabert. Start building units in every city--tanks, let's say. One or two turns later, switch to another unit: infantry, for example. (I'm not sure if you have all these available, but you get the idea). Meanwhile, run the slider at 0% to build up your gold reserves.

After a couple of turns of this, switch to Universal Suffrage and Theocracy. (oooo, you don't have Theology, do you? Vassalage will do. Or if all you want is power for deterrence, who cares about promotions?) Rush-buy all the units with your extra cash. Instant army!

5 turns later, switch back to Representation to kick your research back up and keep Augustus happy.

 

[lilnev]

And you thought Japan had an economic miracle after WWII.

It's the power of Democracy .

I don't believe Augustus will attack you. Shaka might; and I'm not sure about Mehmed, but I don't feel like I know him well enough to trust him. Plus his power graph is insane. I think inciting a war between Mehmed and Shaka sounds like a fine idea.

Factories and Coal Plants, just about everywhere! Put those Observatories on hold. You'll build them almost twice as fast later. The only thing I see in your build queues that should be a higher priority is the Ironworks, and that's only because it's almost done.

I wouldn't worry about Eiffel/Rock 'n' Roll. If you've got cities that have all the infrastructure you want, then sure, at worst it'll turn into cash. But don't put off the key buildings for them (factory, coal plant, observatory, laboratory, happy/health buildings as needed).

Lookin' good,
lilnev

 

[uberfish]

I would probably run for internet anyway, you can get industrialism/railroad/etc from it.

 

[cabert]

I would probably run for internet anyway, you can get industrialism/railroad/etc from it.

agreed
you have copper, don't you?

 

[Sisiutil]

I would probably run for internet anyway, you can get industrialism/railroad/etc from it.

"Greetings, Itzalcoatl."

"Good day, o great, wise, benevolent and snappily-dressed leader! May I say that's a very sharp-looking shrunken head you're wearing today."

"Thanks. You don't think it's too flashy, do you?"

"On my lowly person, perhaps. But with your radiant magnificence? Impossible!"

"Your obsequiousness, while utterly transparent, amuses me enough to allow you to live another day. Now, how's this 'Internet' thing coming along?"

"It just became operational, your splendiferousness! Look at this... the Romans have a web site!"

"Er... how did they get a web site already?"

"The answer to your query would require a dissertation of such technical depth that you would likely lose patience and order me disemboweled, your munificence. Look! There's all this information here. Huh. It says we can defend our cities by arming men with sticks, bound by string, that launch smaller, pointy sticks at people."

"Get out!"

"No, really, your mellifluousness! It even says you can make sharp little points for the flying sticks--they call them "arrows"--out of these soft little rocks called "flint"."

"That sounds very useful. Three thousand friggin' years ago! What else have you got for me?"

"Well, your luminous spiffiness, the Ottomans have developed a civic called 'Theocracy'. It lets you persecute anyone who doesn't share your religious beliefs. They even have a special agency set up to enforce religious conformity. They call it 'The Spanish Inquisition'."

"'The Spanish...' But the Spanish don't even exist on this map!"

"Quite true, my grand poobah-ness."

"Huh. Well, I wasn't expecting that."

"Nobody expects the Spanish..."

"Shut up or I'll have you ritually vivisectioned. Call me when you come across something useful, like, I don't know, a way to power ships using the buried organic remnants of extinct lizards."

"Ha ha! As if! You're quite a card, your mskittyfantasticoness!"

"Yeah yeah..."

 

[aelf]

Sisiutil has a point. What will the Internet give us for all the hammers we invested? Augustus is quite the runaway tech leader and no other AI seems to be able to match him. Heck, we are second to him. By the time the project is completed, we would've researched or traded for most of the useful techs that we can get from it anyway.

IMO the Space Elevator is more useful for us.

 

[coconuts]

"'The Spanish...' But the Spanish don't even exist on this map!"

"Quite true, my grand poobah-ness."

"Huh. Well, I wasn't expecting that."

"Nobody expects the Spanish..."

One of the few actual LOL moments I've ever had on the net. You rock

 

[Unconquered Sun]

IMO you've already won the space race, one tech-way or another. Focus on averting any military danger and any, however unlikely, trouble with the diplomatic victory.

 

[bardolph]

Haha. Yes, build the Internet, mass archers and zomgwtfpwn the map.

 

[aelf]

Focus on averting any military danger and any, however unlikely, trouble with the diplomatic victory.

You're right. A war on the other continent might indeed prove to be useful both ways.

 

[zagnut]

Don't forget about spies. You may very well want to send a few into Roman territory to pillage some vital resources in an effort to slow down his space production.

I also think you should build up your military somewhat to avoid becoming a tasty treat. Fomenting a war on the other continent will be advantageous, IMHO, but you don't want it spreading to your continent.

 

[lilnev]

If Mehmed and Shaka fight each other, you will win.

peace,
lilnev

 

[Godel]

If you build internet, you will probably get at least Railroad, Combustion, Communism and Industrialism. You need to ask yourself two questions:
1. Can I afford to self-research these myself? In other words, how far ahead is Augstus in the tech lead? You will be racing him to the stars in the end. I wouldn't rely on trading for these because of WFYABTA (though I haven't looked at the save).
2. How better might the hammers be spent at the time you can actually build internet? Usually research is the bottleneck, not production, when going for a space victory.

 

[shyuhe]

In Snaaty's open immortal game, I went computers then assembly line, followed by a beeline to the internet. I started building all of the spaceship parts after I finished the internet (I hadn't even started the apollo program when I started the internet) but I was barely production limited. I think I finished about 10 turns after I researched the last part. The internet can be very useful but you do need 2 civs that are researching the techs for you. Can you bribe Augustus to go after one of the civs on the other continent? You have more than enough cities that you can launch in peace if all the other warmongers are locked into war. Just feed them tech to start a world war and watch their research stagnate as you pull ahead.

 

[Snaaty]

I´m agreeing fully with shyuhe:

When you manage to inflict a war among your strongest rivals in tech, then you should be able to bring this game home quite comfortably... ...in the open immortal game, I managed to win space race without a single war in 1922 AD I think, mainly by having a big world war among the tech and score leaders (I had a score of about 2500 points, the score leaders (Brennus and Monty) of about 5000 points), but when they are locked in a war, they will never launch...

Internet is nice to have in my opinion, but no must. In your game, I would rather spare it, because you have only one strong (Augustus) tech leader.

Better inflict a war between Mehmed and Shaka, and try to invole Augustus in this war. Have him join the stronger of the both, so he will have a chance to capture/raze some cities there (he will send more troops then and therefore engage more in this war)

Use all hammers you can spare to buid up defences (including naval ones), because you will have to choose sides in this war sooner or later to beef up relations with the winning nations (and it would be desastrous if a razing party lands on you...)

 

[uberfish]

I don't think you will be declared on. I usually don't bother building any more military in this kind of come-from-behind space race because the greater danger is that the AI tech leader will launch first.

 

[aelf]

Put those Observatories on hold. You'll build them almost twice as fast later. The only thing I see in your build queues that should be a higher priority is the Ironworks, and that's only because it's almost done.

I had a look at the save. The observatories were being built in cities that would not benefit much from factories, since hammer output is low and the factories would take too long to build in the first place.

Anyway, I've actually finished playing the latest round, which is a very long one. I will post the update tomorrow.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I'm not sure if it's such a great idea to stir up a war right now. It's really the best you can do, although, I'm a little worried that Shaka will pawn him. Are you prepared to support Mehmed by gifting every tech that you have? Mehmed might need a tech edge against an AI that likes building lots of units.

 

[lilnev]

I had a look at the save. The observatories were being built in cities that would not benefit much from factories, since hammer output is low and the factories would take too long to build in the first place.

OK, I didn't look into the save, just the screenshot. I'm also used to running US in the endgame, when even commerce cities can contribute a casing or thruster thanks to the town hammers. If you're staying in Rep for diplo reasons then I guess that doesn't apply.

I'm not sure if it's such a great idea to stir up a war right now. It's really the best you can do, although, I'm a little worried that Shaka will pawn him. Are you prepared to support Mehmed by gifting every tech that you have? Mehmed might need a tech edge against an AI that likes building lots of units.

Did you look at the power graph? Mehmed is a monster right now. Shaka and Augustus are tied for second, but one of them is trustworthy and one is not. Getting Mehmed and Shaka to fight is the best plan.

peace,
lilnev