TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
The Immortal Challenge 4: Flight of the Phoenix
- Thread starter aelf
- Start date
aelf
Ashen One
I'm sorry for being away, guys. Anyway, I haven't been in a position to fix my machine, but since it hasn't actually died, I'm convinced it's not going to die anytime soon and leave me without a computer in the middle of term. So I'm going to fire up Civ4 and go on with the game. I admit this is partly to do with my having an essay on AI and consciousness (how apt) to do and feeling very bored 
Update coming up.
PS: I hope Sisiutil has set a longer record IIRC, he left his Saladin game for quite some time.
Update coming up.
PS: I hope Sisiutil has set a longer record
IIRC, he left his Saladin game for quite some time.
aelf
Ashen One
Well, you guys can be sure that I'll be hanging around for quite a while longer and will likely pick up my BTS after this. I got an offer to work on CivRevolutions recently that I accepted, but which inexplicably fell through just a few days later even though I've already made and submitted some plans. That's life, I guess, and proles like me are at the mercy of companies that may or may not stick to what they had said. [/random rant]
Not that I'm implying you should be pleased that I'm going to be hanging around
I should play my BTS, though, since I haven't touched it much.
aelf
Ashen One
Round 9: 1406AD - 1568AD
As the round began, I decided to use the GS to lightbulb Printing Press after all:
Since trebs seemed to be working fine against rifles, why not get more income now to speed up our research? We might still get Steel at around the same time with the boost, since the GS would lightbulb most of PP. Indeed, it only took 2 turns to research the rest of the tech, putting us back on Steel in no time.
Meanwhile, our annoyed friend Shaka came to offer us yet another deal:
He seems to be enjoying trading with us, whatever he feels.
Right after PP was discovered, I decided to spend a few turns at 0% research to build up funds to upgrade our CR troops to CR grenadiers. They would be needed, especially since we might not be able to get many cannons out before we have to fight again. We also slow-built grenadiers in a number of our cities:
Our proud 1st Battalion Grenadiers, raring to have a go at the dastardly Mongolian riflemen some time soon.
Then, out of nowhere, something happened:
What the hell? He wasn't unhappy about anything. Maybe Khan bribed him to war, but they weren't exactly buddies either since Khan declared war on him earlier. Or it might have something to do with our low power rating. I don't know. I never liked Capac; he truly is sneaky and dangerous. But, whatever. If we're going to lose the game because of this, then too bad. For now, he landed an unimpressive stack (2 grenadiers and 1 trebuchet) that could mostly be taken care of by knights. Even our ancient axemen got their time in the sun:
They destroyed the trebuchet. But, in any case, it must be quite humiliating to be defeated by axemen in this day and age.
At the expiry of our peace, Khan, too decided that he wanted a piece of us:
Not surprising, though, given the circumstances. He immediately attacked Karakorum with a few riflemen, grenadiers, knights and trebuchets. He lost his medieval units, but his gunpowder units won all their battles, wearing our garrison of mostly Janissaries thin.
Sakae also came under threat, again:
But its garrison was easily reinforced and should be able to handle most of what Khan could throw at us anyway. The situation at Karakorum looked far direr. In fact, as I expected, we couldn't hold Karakorum on the 2nd turn of the war.
Oh, well, at least most of Khan's offensive forces were either directed or spent at the city or sent to Sakae. If we counterattacked with our own stack, we should be able to neutralise a large part of the threat Khan could pose. And I was toying with the idea of razing the capital city this time, since it was difficult to hold and wasn't in a very good location anyway (one tile away from the coast and few resource or good tiles). It would also be a perfect thing to spite to our most annoying foe with.
At least Roosevelt, again, proved to be a jolly fellow:
With WW appearing again, this would be useful, especially since we weren't able to keep all of our happiness resources from being pillaged.
A few turns later, the war produced our 2nd Great General:
Since unit production would be crucial for some time to come, I used it to build a Military Academy at our HE city.
And our stack of CR grenadiers and trebuchets re-captured Karakorum, razing it to the ground:
It was costly. We lost half of our army in the attack and the counter-attacks that followed. We certainly didn't want to hold on to the city for a 2nd round of the nightmare that was Bagh... I mean Karakorum.
After we finished researching Steel, I decided to research towards Democracy in order to stem the growing unhappiness from Emancipation being adopted by other civs. The war was going pretty slowly, given the need to reinforce our original stack, so our cities were racking up WW as it were. Not that Democracy was likely to have arrived soon enough to alleviate the situation, but I just made steps in the direction in case the war had to go on for longer than every expectation. I also made some resource trades to secure more happiness resources in the meantime.
Unfortunately, our buddy Roosevelt wasn't entirely nice:
Uh... I love how the AI makes ridiculous propositions like this. Do we need another war on our hands? Then again, perhaps joining wouldn't have harmed us and would only score us diplomatic points with Roosevelt. Still, I think I couldn't have taken the risk.
A while later, we captured a Mongolian city that we'd get to keep:
Sweet victory in a difficult war.
[to be continued in the next post]
As the round began, I decided to use the GS to lightbulb Printing Press after all:
Since trebs seemed to be working fine against rifles, why not get more income now to speed up our research? We might still get Steel at around the same time with the boost, since the GS would lightbulb most of PP. Indeed, it only took 2 turns to research the rest of the tech, putting us back on Steel in no time.
Meanwhile, our annoyed friend Shaka came to offer us yet another deal:
He seems to be enjoying trading with us, whatever he feels.
Right after PP was discovered, I decided to spend a few turns at 0% research to build up funds to upgrade our CR troops to CR grenadiers. They would be needed, especially since we might not be able to get many cannons out before we have to fight again. We also slow-built grenadiers in a number of our cities:
Our proud 1st Battalion Grenadiers, raring to have a go at the dastardly Mongolian riflemen some time soon.
Then, out of nowhere, something happened:
What the hell? He wasn't unhappy about anything. Maybe Khan bribed him to war, but they weren't exactly buddies either since Khan declared war on him earlier. Or it might have something to do with our low power rating. I don't know. I never liked Capac; he truly is sneaky and dangerous. But, whatever. If we're going to lose the game because of this, then too bad. For now, he landed an unimpressive stack (2 grenadiers and 1 trebuchet) that could mostly be taken care of by knights. Even our ancient axemen got their time in the sun:
They destroyed the trebuchet. But, in any case, it must be quite humiliating to be defeated by axemen in this day and age.
At the expiry of our peace, Khan, too decided that he wanted a piece of us:
Not surprising, though, given the circumstances. He immediately attacked Karakorum with a few riflemen, grenadiers, knights and trebuchets. He lost his medieval units, but his gunpowder units won all their battles, wearing our garrison of mostly Janissaries thin.
Sakae also came under threat, again:
But its garrison was easily reinforced and should be able to handle most of what Khan could throw at us anyway. The situation at Karakorum looked far direr. In fact, as I expected, we couldn't hold Karakorum on the 2nd turn of the war.
Oh, well, at least most of Khan's offensive forces were either directed or spent at the city or sent to Sakae. If we counterattacked with our own stack, we should be able to neutralise a large part of the threat Khan could pose. And I was toying with the idea of razing the capital city this time, since it was difficult to hold and wasn't in a very good location anyway (one tile away from the coast and few resource or good tiles). It would also be a perfect thing to spite to our most annoying foe with.
At least Roosevelt, again, proved to be a jolly fellow:
With WW appearing again, this would be useful, especially since we weren't able to keep all of our happiness resources from being pillaged.
A few turns later, the war produced our 2nd Great General:
Since unit production would be crucial for some time to come, I used it to build a Military Academy at our HE city.
And our stack of CR grenadiers and trebuchets re-captured Karakorum, razing it to the ground:
It was costly. We lost half of our army in the attack and the counter-attacks that followed. We certainly didn't want to hold on to the city for a 2nd round of the nightmare that was Bagh... I mean Karakorum.
After we finished researching Steel, I decided to research towards Democracy in order to stem the growing unhappiness from Emancipation being adopted by other civs. The war was going pretty slowly, given the need to reinforce our original stack, so our cities were racking up WW as it were. Not that Democracy was likely to have arrived soon enough to alleviate the situation, but I just made steps in the direction in case the war had to go on for longer than every expectation. I also made some resource trades to secure more happiness resources in the meantime.
Unfortunately, our buddy Roosevelt wasn't entirely nice:
Uh... I love how the AI makes ridiculous propositions like this. Do we need another war on our hands? Then again, perhaps joining wouldn't have harmed us and would only score us diplomatic points with Roosevelt. Still, I think I couldn't have taken the risk.
A while later, we captured a Mongolian city that we'd get to keep:
Sweet victory in a difficult war.
[to be continued in the next post]
aelf
Ashen One
[continued from previous post]
Unfortunately, Huayna seemed to have grown bolder and sent us a surprise:
Unable to resist against the feared cavalry, I made arrangements for peace that was, happily, accepted:
That showed me that we had better get Rifling quickly, so I made further arrangements:
And I switched our research to Rifling. We could go Military Tradition, but since riflemen can be drafted, it seems to be the safer choice.
We got our next GP several turns later:
Yup, just as we intended, a GE came out of our capital. I wonder if we'd get a good chance to use him, though, behind as we are in tech. Well, I think he can at least make a difference with the Space Elevator if we survive till then.
Having crushed most of Khan's offensive strength, the next city fell to us more quickly:
Needing to consolidate our position and guard against another attack by Huayna, I decided to call it quits for now:
Khan's not so confident now, agreeing to give in to our demands instead of demanding stuff. The gold would certainly be useful in helping us catch up with the rest of the world. To that effect, I also went round selling Music to the more backward civs, starting with Shaka:
Then Monty:
Carefully checking, of course, that we wouldn't anger anyone before doing these. We also finished researching Rifling at the same turn, so I decided to stop at this point.
This is the current tech situation:
We have nothing on Roosevelt and Huayna, Constitution and Steel on Khan, and a whole lot of techs on Monty and Shaka.
We're back to researching Democracy (for Emancipation) now that we've discovered Rifling. I imagine we would want to head for Railroads (for speed of movement across our continent) or Assembly Line (for infantry), since we still need security. But, then again, we might want to look towards improving our economy. I'm interested to hear your opinions on this.
The power graph:
Surprising, still no headway here, despite having undergone some modernising. Mass-producing or even drafting rifles might be in order, especially in view of
the threat still posed by Huayna. He hasn't moved his cavalry away from our border since the peace.
The GNP graph, to give an indication on how well our economy is doing:
It's on an upward trend. Right now Roosevelt is probably in the middle of anarchy, so we're doing much better than he is. However, he is still clearly ahead, though we might have hope of catching up with him after some time. Huayna would present a more difficult challenge to overcome, but ultimately we might have the advantage since we're bigger (almost on par with Roosevelt now) and will continue to grow as we appropriate more of our neighbours' lands. I think the bigger trouble is preventing him from slowing us down by perpetually declaring war and landing troops on our territory.
The map of our continent:
I'm considering a break from fighting Khan for a short while and turn our attention on Shaka, especially since we can afford to attack him very soon, if not immediately. This would allow us to consolidate our territory by taking Nongoma and Babanwango. I've split our stack into two to deal with them at once so that should fall rapidly. I'm not sure if we should deal with Khangela now. If we do, I'm inclined to raze it, since it is subpar and would unnecessarily complicate our position vis a vis Khan. I don't think we should go for the northern tundra territory now. In fact, I'm thinking of vassalising Shaka to save us some trouble. We can totally eliminate Khan later, no problem, since it doesn't require a large diversion.
As for the struggle against Khan, it would be resumed later once we've built up our military strength with rifles.
The map of the other continent:
Roosevelt's war against Monty ended a few turns after he asked for our help and Monty became Roosevelt's vassal. The good thing about this is this means Roosevelt isn't likely to grow bigger. The bad thing about this is there will be no more war on the other side to slow Roosevelt and Huayna down. I don't know which is more important. Anyway, I think we can be quite sure that this game will remain full of suspense until the very end. Here's for hoping that we'll win.
Any comments?
Unfortunately, Huayna seemed to have grown bolder and sent us a surprise:
Unable to resist against the feared cavalry, I made arrangements for peace that was, happily, accepted:
That showed me that we had better get Rifling quickly, so I made further arrangements:
And I switched our research to Rifling. We could go Military Tradition, but since riflemen can be drafted, it seems to be the safer choice.
We got our next GP several turns later:
Yup, just as we intended, a GE came out of our capital. I wonder if we'd get a good chance to use him, though, behind as we are in tech. Well, I think he can at least make a difference with the Space Elevator if we survive till then.
Having crushed most of Khan's offensive strength, the next city fell to us more quickly:
Needing to consolidate our position and guard against another attack by Huayna, I decided to call it quits for now:
Khan's not so confident now, agreeing to give in to our demands instead of demanding stuff. The gold would certainly be useful in helping us catch up with the rest of the world. To that effect, I also went round selling Music to the more backward civs, starting with Shaka:
Then Monty:
Carefully checking, of course, that we wouldn't anger anyone before doing these. We also finished researching Rifling at the same turn, so I decided to stop at this point.
This is the current tech situation:
We have nothing on Roosevelt and Huayna, Constitution and Steel on Khan, and a whole lot of techs on Monty and Shaka.
We're back to researching Democracy (for Emancipation) now that we've discovered Rifling. I imagine we would want to head for Railroads (for speed of movement across our continent) or Assembly Line (for infantry), since we still need security. But, then again, we might want to look towards improving our economy. I'm interested to hear your opinions on this.
The power graph:
Surprising, still no headway here, despite having undergone some modernising. Mass-producing or even drafting rifles might be in order, especially in view of
the threat still posed by Huayna. He hasn't moved his cavalry away from our border since the peace.
The GNP graph, to give an indication on how well our economy is doing:
It's on an upward trend. Right now Roosevelt is probably in the middle of anarchy, so we're doing much better than he is. However, he is still clearly ahead, though we might have hope of catching up with him after some time. Huayna would present a more difficult challenge to overcome, but ultimately we might have the advantage since we're bigger (almost on par with Roosevelt now) and will continue to grow as we appropriate more of our neighbours' lands. I think the bigger trouble is preventing him from slowing us down by perpetually declaring war and landing troops on our territory.
The map of our continent:
I'm considering a break from fighting Khan for a short while and turn our attention on Shaka, especially since we can afford to attack him very soon, if not immediately. This would allow us to consolidate our territory by taking Nongoma and Babanwango. I've split our stack into two to deal with them at once so that should fall rapidly. I'm not sure if we should deal with Khangela now. If we do, I'm inclined to raze it, since it is subpar and would unnecessarily complicate our position vis a vis Khan. I don't think we should go for the northern tundra territory now. In fact, I'm thinking of vassalising Shaka to save us some trouble. We can totally eliminate Khan later, no problem, since it doesn't require a large diversion.
As for the struggle against Khan, it would be resumed later once we've built up our military strength with rifles.
The map of the other continent:
Roosevelt's war against Monty ended a few turns after he asked for our help and Monty became Roosevelt's vassal. The good thing about this is this means Roosevelt isn't likely to grow bigger. The bad thing about this is there will be no more war on the other side to slow Roosevelt and Huayna down. I don't know which is more important. Anyway, I think we can be quite sure that this game will remain full of suspense until the very end. Here's for hoping that we'll win.
Any comments?
Nice to see the game going.
Really interesting as you're in a difficult position.
I can't look at the save but I think trying to distract the other contî while taking over yours is the way to go though easier said than done. Attacking khan again and again to get more and more land. Trade your way back and beeline a tech like industrialism. With the mass of land (and production) you should have you can attack the other conti, either using marines mainly to raze some coastal cities to vassalize someone like monty or use tanks to take over one's empire.
I really wish you good luck
Really interesting as you're in a difficult position.
I can't look at the save but I think trying to distract the other contî while taking over yours is the way to go though easier said than done. Attacking khan again and again to get more and more land. Trade your way back and beeline a tech like industrialism. With the mass of land (and production) you should have you can attack the other conti, either using marines mainly to raze some coastal cities to vassalize someone like monty or use tanks to take over one's empire.
I really wish you good luck
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
There's hope for the other continent yet.
Huayna and Roosevelt are both running each other's favourite civic at the moment (HR and Mercantilism respectively). Take those boni away and they'll be annoyed with each other at best, which should put a stop to any tech-whoring between them. I'd be careful stirring up too many wars over there though - Roosie's power is double that of Huayna's and there's a danger of him getting overrun if you can't bribe them to stop again.
Huayna and Roosevelt are both running each other's favourite civic at the moment (HR and Mercantilism respectively). Take those boni away and they'll be annoyed with each other at best, which should put a stop to any tech-whoring between them. I'd be careful stirring up too many wars over there though - Roosie's power is double that of Huayna's and there's a danger of him getting overrun if you can't bribe them to stop again.
I'd definitley take the two Zulu cities you mentioned at the end of your last post. Then you'd have a clear border between you and Khan and more easily prepare for the final push to wipe him out.
Taking Khangela might actually be beneficial as well - you could then have a quick two-pronged attack on the size 16 and size 6 Mongol cities (can't read the city names) to the west and east of Khangela, respectivley. Then just crush the Mongol cities to the SE and he's finished.
A swift conclusion to the final Mongol war might be needed since he could become a Vassal of somone on the other continent while at war with you, causing a real headache.
Taking Khangela might actually be beneficial as well - you could then have a quick two-pronged attack on the size 16 and size 6 Mongol cities (can't read the city names) to the west and east of Khangela, respectivley. Then just crush the Mongol cities to the SE and he's finished.
A swift conclusion to the final Mongol war might be needed since he could become a Vassal of somone on the other continent while at war with you, causing a real headache.
aelf
Ashen One
CivSetä;6929419 said:
Do you think this would certainly be the case?
Good point. The UN would help us with this, whether or not we can win the top spot, thanks to dumb AI voting. I'm not sure this would make a big enough difference for us, though. Stirring up a war between them would be very difficult and, as you said, it might only mean a bigger Roosevelt.
I'm not really afraid of this because Khan doesn't have very good relations with any of them. I suppose it's possible with Huayna, but they are only at Cautious, so the likelihood is quite low. Besides, another very limited war with Huayna wouldn't be the end of the world.
Well, Hyuana and Roosevelt have strong techlead. Getting ottomans to the top, either on production- or techwise (which is needed for war), looks ...hmm... like a challenge!
Hyuanas main cities are coastal, though, so maybe couple of them could be razed with medium-sized stack. Getting foothold is harder, especially if Monty is involved. You know he will be building units like crazy, and will throw them against your troops if you attack America. Attacking America is hard also because most of the best american cities are inland.
Stirring up some action on other continent is not good idea either. It would probably only mean another vassal to Roosie. I don't think that Hyana could defend himself against both Americans and Aztecs. Incan borders are long and probably only moderately defended.
So Internet is the way to go. AI will be distracted by all those useless military techs, so getting computers fast enough is likely. GE for Space Elevator is nice, and you should be able to get Hoover Dam on the way to deal with health problems.
This is just my opinion, feel free to launch an intercontinental invasion!
aelf
Ashen One
I'm still pinning some hope on capturing almost the whole continent and rapidly catching up with the other one. Yeah, but the Internet would be good thing to aim for as a safeguard.
I'm afraid it's pretty much impossible to play this week. Even if I do during self-declared breaks, it would be impossible to make the time to post an update. I have two papers at the end of the week. I should have plenty of time when I am home next week, though.
I'm afraid it's pretty much impossible to play this week. Even if I do during self-declared breaks, it would be impossible to make the time to post an update. I have two papers at the end of the week. I should have plenty of time when I am home next week, though.
aelf
Ashen One
Just a quick update. I've played the next round. I'll post a full update sometime this week. From experience, I think more of you will notice the update when it comes if I let you guys know first
iamnleth
Warlord
Just a quick update. I've played the next round. I'll post a full update sometime this week. From experience, I think more of you will notice the update when it comes if I let you guys know first
100% true!
The M'Hael
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2007
- Messages
- 86
Just a quick update. I've played the next round. I'll post a full update sometime this week. From experience, I think more of you will notice the update when it comes if I let you guys know first
I am trying to notice an update, but there doesn't seem to be any
Nice to see you back in business, aelf!
aelf
Ashen One
I'm typing it! It's still within the week.
aelf
Ashen One
Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. I'm no longer the gamer I used to be 
I still think Civ is fun, though, and that surmounting such a challenge as this game is great (and hopefully informative). That's why I'm still pathetically persisting...
I still think Civ is fun, though, and that surmounting such a challenge as this game is great (and hopefully informative). That's why I'm still pathetically persisting...
