The last challenge -- Team game -- Deity trial

Duckweed said:
@ Pauliskhan

leaving the river costs us a 11 hammer levee and +2 health, which >> having stone or marble in BFC.
Click to expand...

Initially I was considering moving 1E if there floodplains/river tiles to pick up but halfway through my post (after downloading the starting pic and blowing it up as much as I could) I finished convincing myself that moving wasn't worth it.

The stone consideration was for the plains tile SSW of the start location that would have been given up by moving 1E.
I would never have suggested moving away from the river to grab stone out in the plains further west.
You'd have a tough time getting a Bureau capital levee loving spacenut like me away from the river.
--

Re starting techs; I don't think we need archery, I see a couple of strategic hills/forests that could be defended with warriors.
I'd suggest Irr-AH-BW

worker: irrigate floodplain->improve sheep->mine grassland hill for warrior building
Then irrigate a second floodplain so once warriors are in place we can maximise our growth to pop 4 cycle for 2 pop settlers whips.
 
@Bestsss

Thanks! Your 2nd post clarifies things greatly for me.

@Duckweed

I like your plan. It makes sense to build the pasture a few turns later if we can save about 3 turns research (I doubt the extra food and commerce from an earlier pasture would compensate), and we most probably want Hunting and Agriculture soon anyway. Not sure what the "2/6" means? Is the 6 possible hidden resources? I count 7 - coal, aluminum, uranium, oil, copper, iron and horse. Though I think the rarity of these vary.
 
agri->ah = 26 turns
agri-hu->ah = 33 -3(discount) = 30 turns

It will not exactly play out this way since we grow to 2 and 3 in the meantime but the difference will probably still be 4 turns.

So there'll be 4 turns we'll be working an unirrigated fp instead of the sheep, a loss of 8 food. We gain 30 beakers though. That is if we need hunting which is likely. Since we don't have bw at this time to leverage the food and the 4th tile'll be unimproved i'd think the commerce beats the food.

There is another way to go, ah is quite expensive and compared to irrigated fp's sheep only gives us 1 food extra and it saves us 3 worker turns since pasturing = 4 turns, farming fp's 7 turns. Alternatively we can go agri->bw , then switch back to hu->ah or archery. We can now work 3 fp's and a mine, only one food less than the sheep and we can whip/chop if we want too. I think i'd go this way. We have fast workers so we can chop fast if we want too. I think we have enough food to whip some, if not we can work 3 fp's and 2 mines early game. We're spiritual so the move to slavery doesn't cost us. If we go ah i'd include hu before ah.

Hunting is necessary imo if we don't find a resource with either BW or AH, it's true we can defend the capital at the cost of having to build useless warriors but it'll be really hard to get the second city up.
 
PaulisKhan said:
Re starting techs; I don't think we need archery, I see a couple of strategic hills/forests that could be defended with warriors.
Click to expand...

From my experience, except on a crowd map, archers are necessary against barbarian. We are clearly in the middle of the land, Even 2 AI neighbors are close enough to help with 2 directions, we still need to defend from other 2 directions. The only good forest hill in sight is 3N1W of the warrior. Fortified warrior does not have a very good chance against archer (<80%), and is too strong for warriors so that they will go directly to your capital and pillage, how do you deal with this case?
 
@ The Rook

Oil can only be found under jungle, our capital does not look like having jungles before modification.

@ Dirk

If all of the hills are covered by forests, I'll go BW since we'll be short of production for units. 2 hills can be mined immediately and going BW 1st delays sheep for a dozen of turns, even more if we need wheel to connect copper.
 
Duckweed said:
From my experience, except on a crowd map, archers are necessary against barbarian. We are clearly in the middle of the land, Even 2 AI neighbors are close enough to help with 2 directions, we still need to defend from other 2 directions. The only good forest hill in sight is 3N1W of the warrior. Fortified warrior does not have a very good chance against archer (<80%), and is too strong for warriors so that they will go directly to your capital and pillage, how do you deal with this case?
Click to expand...

chicken blood and heather.

I say let's decide after Irrigation, we can also decide then if to go straight for BW, or go for hunting AH.
 
@Duckweed,
I think we are close to the sea. The river next to the city looks like have been placed by the normalization algorithm and most likely the sea is north of us.

I usually dont like going hunting at all, though.
I think I prefer AG->Hunting->AH now.

May the huts help us.
 
@Duckweed

I never new that oil could only occur under jungle. Thanks.

@Dirk

I ran some tests (with another Deity map), and AH will take 13 turns to research with one prerequisite, or 11 turns with 2 (that's working a FP). The values given in the tech adviser are inaccurate beyond what you are currently researching, always with a value in excess of the real one. From memory, the tech adviser suggests an outrageous 16 turns for AH with no prerequisites.
 
I think the sea is to our north as well. Depending on how many tiles there are, there's a decent chance of copper somewhere in the vicinity but we don't have enough forests to chop out a quick settler without crippling our health in the short-term. I suggest agriculture while scouting counterclockwise to the north in an arc. Hopefully we'll see some plains tiles along the river (copper!).
 
@Duckweed , It's not the copper i'm interested in, would be a bonus just as horses would be for AH. Indeed AH will be delayed by a dozen turns, maybe some more if we have to go archery first. So we lose 12 food maybe a bit more. The ability to chop and whip more than makes up for that. We don't know the map yet, it's possible it's rather crowded and there is some great spot nearby, in that case quietly building workers and settlers with pasture and mines might not be good enough. A Chop and a whip could be the difference between getting or losing that site.

I think agri first is best, bw immediately and growing on unimproved fp's is stretching things way too far.
 
This looks real interesting, I'll enjoy following it. I hope you don't mind me sharing an idea for this start.

<snip> I'll not clutter it up then.
 
Dirk1302 said:
@Duckweed , It's not the copper i'm interested in, would be a bonus just as horses would be for AH. Indeed AH will be delayed by a dozen turns, maybe some more if we have to go archery first. So we lose 12 food maybe a bit more. The ability to chop and whip more than makes up for that. We don't know the map yet, it's possible it's rather crowded and there is some great spot nearby, in that case quietly building workers and settlers with pasture and mines might not be good enough. A Chop and a whip could be the difference between getting or losing that site.
Click to expand...

This capital does not have 6 food tiles, so the whipping from food tile is not that efficient, 4 food tile is close of hammer yield as hill tiles, while we lose the commerce from river if whipped. Worker will be busy for 27 turns at improving 5 tiles if we go AH 1st, and more if we go BW 1st and don't have time to chop.
 
Quickly played to the completion of Agri

Turn 9 -- Monty, the founder of Hindu and his team mate Ragnar came from east
Turn9-1.jpg


Map revealed so far
Turn10.jpg


Very good land to the west, but I prefer to claim the gold eastern 1st, and that's all. I'd try to avoid border contact until our western buddy determine their worst enemy. This game is going to be very tough, or a quick ending.:(

I think the more information of the map does not aid much on the decision of tech path next, I am going to tech Hunting->AH as planned next.

Opinions?
 
Given how the coast snakes to the west, I think we may be down in the SE corner, which may be good if we can block off some land. Also, given the amount of open land, we'll definitely need archers...
 
There's somewhat more to be said now for teching hunting->AH next as blocking Monty doesn't work as well as say blocking Ghandi. And that was one of the the points behind researching BW after agri first. Still a whip at size 4 could be beneficial as not all tiles are improved at that stage. Could whip a second worker that does some chopping or helps with further improvements, a settler is also a possibility of course, not sure if we can settle immediately because of barbs though. If you go hunting-AH now you'll probably have to research archery next, then BW, we'll have to wait some 35 turns before we can whip/chop in that case.
 
How about just going BW -- hunting -- archery then? We can farm the FP in the meantime and they give a little commerce. It'll also let us whip a settler at size 4, depending on if we have copper or not.
 
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