The last challenge -- Team game -- Deity trial

[Dirk1302]

Yes that's the idea i proposed but it's not totally clear if it's best. It loses ~15 food meaning we reach size 5 slower and costs 3 worker turns (pasture sheep vs farm fp early). If in the end we don't use the earlier whip or chop ability researching towards hunting->AH would be stronger.

 

[shyuhe]

So basically, the merits of going BW first are totally luck dependent since its advantages (whipping an earlier settler) basically depends on whether we have copper in the BFC for settler escort and city defense

 

[Dirk1302]

Well the whip at 4 is just +60H, we're not too far from archery anymore at that point, we can time the whip to come at the moment we research archery.You can also use the whip for a worker . 60H is just a lot early game, then again we have 3 improved tiles fp,fp,mine at that time so we lose some 12-15 H due to growback to 3 in 4-5 turns and some commerce. Don't think it'll be as much as the 60H gain though.

 

[PaulisKhan]

So basically, the merits of going BW first are totally luck dependent since its advantages (whipping an earlier settler) basically depends on whether we have copper in the BFC for settler escort and city defense

We could've spawn busted enough with warriors to get city 2 out safely but looking at the map I now think hunting+AH is the right way to go.
Then, if no horses we can go archery, if we do have horses we can skip in favour of BW.

also:Monty AND Ragnar team together... ouch.

 

[Duckweed]

The advantage of going BW 1st is that you can get your 1st settler out faster.

The drawback is that it suffers at tile yield and safety since you can get at most 1 warrior and 1 archer out in this way. You might be able to settle 2nd city ~ turn 40, but would be very difficult to defend the improvements.

Well the whip at 4 is just +60H, we're not too far from archery anymore at that point, we can time the whip to come at the moment we research archery.You can also use the whip for a worker . 60H is just a lot early game, then again we have 3 improved tiles fp,fp,mine at that time so we lose some 12-15 H due to growback to 3 in 4-5 turns and some commerce. Don't think it'll be as much as the 60H gain though.

In fact, you need 24 food to grow from size 2 to 3, and this needs 4 turns while working on 2 irrigated FP, and another 3 ~ 4 turns from size 3 to size 4, so in total you need 7~8 turns to grow back to size 4, so you lose ~ 11 turns of yield from a 5 yield tile, that's why I said before whipping won't be that efficient without 6 food tile. By going BW 1st, you have to work on 2 unimproved tile for ~ 5 turns.

Edit: If we have copper, then BW 1st is better, but again, 1/6 chance.

 

[Dirk1302]

The first 4 turns are most important since we lose the mine for those turns, could also whip a second worker for chopping which admittedly eats into health, haven't checked how bad that is. Hunting->AH is a solid so i i'm fine with that techpath too.

 

[bestsss]

hunting->AH and hopefully there are some horsies.

 

[The Rook]

Monty and Ragnar eh? Well at least they are a very peaceful pair. The fact that they make such easy trading partners is the icing on the cake. Just a shame that they are too honest to bribe.

Also happy with Hunting-AH (as mentioned earlier).

I like the idea of settling the gold first, as it seems to be the only big early commerce tile in the vicinity. Hopefully there is a food source that will conveniently enable us to catch the gold in the inner ring.

 

[PaulisKhan]

I like the idea of settling the gold first, as it seems to be the only big early commerce tile in the vicinity. Hopefully there is a food source that will conveniently enable us to catch the gold in the inner ring.

I was lookingt that too, the worst case scenario though is that we settled 1W of the gold and let the capital 2nd border pop give us control of the floodplain which we can irrigate to work the gold and keep growing.

 

[shyuhe]

I was lookingt that too, the worst case scenario though is that we settled 1W of the gold and let the capital 2nd border pop give us control of the floodplain which we can irrigate to work the gold and keep growing.

I think time-wise, it should work out pretty well. If we get the city up around turn 40, then we can mine the gold until the border pops from the capital at turn 50, at which point we can farm the FP and re-assign tiles.

And hunting--AH is fine with me.

 

[The Rook]

I was lookingt that too, the worst case scenario though is that we settled 1W of the gold and let the capital 2nd border pop give us control of the floodplain which we can irrigate to work the gold and keep growing.

Good point. Also, is it my imagination or is the tile 1N 2W of the gold (hidden in the fog) a FP too? If this is the case we would be able to have at least 1 food source in the first ring.

 

[Dirk1302]

City won't be up turn 40, need 15 turns for the worker, ~16 turns to grow to 4, assign settler , it'll be done ~turn 40. But assuming hunting->AH->archery we'll have archery around turn 35, we need to build at least 2 archers before we can go with the settler, one to defend capital, the other to escort the settler. This'll probably be minimum requirement since we also have to protect the pasture and fp's from barbs, especially pasture is well en route for barbs. Building 2 archers will cost some 9 turns then we can queue the settler which'll cost us ~8 turns if we're at size 5 by then. 2 turns to reach gold for settler to reach gold assuming the escort is already there.

If we're going with 2 archers we need some help from warriors, we'll have ~3, the initial warrior if it doesn't die, once at size 3 we have 4H/turn, before 1H/turn. May need 1 turn to finish that third warrior at size 4.

There is some margin here as i don't know all the numbers exactly, i think second cityll be up roughly between turn 50 and 55. The capital will be strong by that time though so np if the Monty Ragnar team isn't too close.

I wouldn't farm too much fp's from here as i think the fp's in capital's bfc need to be cottaged later.

 

[PaulisKhan]

Our existing warrior is a dead man.

I've already said my goodbyes

 

[Duckweed]

^ hei hei, you are wroooong.

 

[Duckweed]

Continue...

Turn 17 -- our warrior popped 2 huts and got some cash, not bad, but no match with the luck of the eastern warnuts, who got Writing from a hut. At least we'll have the positive open border bonus much faster.

Turn 26 -- our brave warrior safely went home, actually was chased by a barbarian archer and almost ready to explore more land to the north and east. No horse, no surprise. Worker got the exact timing to pasture the sheep.

and the good news -- the 2nd team, neighbor of Ragnar -- Willem and Churchill, possibly the founder of Buddhism, and also the worst enemy of Monty & Ragnar.

Roster:

Duckweed-- just played
Obsolete -- UP
Bestsss-- On deck
Shyuhe
Pauliskhan
Dirk1302
The Rook

 

[The Rook]

Nice turn set.

OB pre 3000BC! If only we could capitalize on those trade routes.

Great news on the Diplo front! Although Ragnar and Monty are the worst enemy of WVO and Churchill, surely the reverse must be true too. Also, I could see WVO and Churchill putting up some resistance should war occur, so lets just hope they end up locked in a lengthy stalemate.

BTW, do teams of AI's start near one another, or random locations?

 

[shyuhe]

In my experience, they generally tend to start closer to each other. But this isn't based on code...

 

[bestsss]

it's called 'Team Starting Plot'
---

Spoiler :

for (int iPass = 0; iPass < 2 * MAX_PLAYERS; ++iPass)
{
	bStartFound = false;

	iRandOffset = getSorenRandNum(countCivTeamsAlive(), "Team Starting Plot");

	for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_CIV_TEAMS; iI++)
	{
		iLoopTeam = ((iI + iRandOffset) % MAX_CIV_TEAMS);

		if (GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iLoopTeam).isAlive())
		{
			for (iJ = 0; iJ < MAX_CIV_PLAYERS; iJ++)
			{
				if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).isAlive())
				{
					if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).getTeam() == iLoopTeam)
					{
						if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).getStartingPlot() == NULL)
						{
							CvPlot* pStartingPlot = GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).findStartingPlot();

							if (NULL != pStartingPlot)
							{
								GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iJ).setStartingPlot(pStartingPlot, true);
								playerOrder.push_back(iJ);
							}
							bStartFound = true;
							break;
						}
					}
				}
			}
		}
	}

	if (!bStartFound)
	{
		break;
	}
}

 

[PaulisKhan]

^ hei hei, you are wroooong.

Sometimes it is very very good to be wrong =D

Good set! Looking at all that fog and no horses means that I'm willing to go along with archery until Obs yells at me.

 

[Dirk1302]

There's no choice really we'll get hammered by barbs from the west.