I also thought the warrior would have died, but one lion just walked away.
We also need to be careful of our southern border.
The last challenge -- Team game -- Deity trial
- Thread starter Duckweed
- Start date
I also thought the warrior would have died, but one lion just walked away.
We also need to be careful of our southern border.
Dirk1302
Deity
Very real life this, usually lions don't attack without a reason. Animals are excessively aggressive in civ.
obsolete
Deity
Guys, right now in addition to this I have THREE other deity-team games going on that are rather tuff, yet I am also falling behind my input-critics (which are in demand now). And then I have other voting to do soon for yet another deity game, etc. and that doesn`t include the rest of things.
I would need a couple days before I start the next turn set, even just 10 turns can be very important early and I like to only go when I have spent some time studying the scenario in depth and literally take my time. Right now it would be a rush-play and since this is not your simple run-of-the-mill type scenario, I don`t think it is fair to others I do that.
If no one wants to wait, I am not offended at all if someone else wants to fill in.
I would need a couple days before I start the next turn set, even just 10 turns can be very important early and I like to only go when I have spent some time studying the scenario in depth and literally take my time. Right now it would be a rush-play and since this is not your simple run-of-the-mill type scenario, I don`t think it is fair to others I do that.
If no one wants to wait, I am not offended at all if someone else wants to fill in.
PaulisKhan
Physicist
These next 10 turns are important, don't sweat the delay.
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 788
NP. Take your time.
PaulisKhan
Physicist
Just try and avoid your usual luck with barbs >.<
No Vedic uprisings please!
No Vedic uprisings please!
I like your altitude.
IMO the most important feature of SG game is posting your plan and let others discuss and evaluate it. I'd like this game to be and have to be played in an optimal way -- at least every set to be approved by the majority.
obsolete
Deity
Alright, I spent THREE ours going over the current save, and reading issues in the thread. What I see worries me and I’d like to do some changes.
It is generally a sin to work unimproved tiles while you have improved stuff sitting around. I really don’t like the fact we are working a simple floodplain tile when we have a rivered grassland-mine sitting there vacant. Now… we can all sit here and do fancy-smanthy optimal whip calculations, but the fact is (and I know from experience), that all this sh!t goes right out the window as soon as the first deity barbs show up (unless your calculations revolve around chopping the great wall).
And let me tell you something some of you may not be aware of. Wonders affect the ENTIRE TEAM (except for Taj). This means, if Ragnar, OR Monte builds the wall, then we are in some serious sh*t. They already start with 4 freiken capitals, and will have 6 cities before we even get our first. That’s a hell of a lot of terrain that the barbs on our continent will not be allowed to attack. Now, since they can’t attack those terrifies…. Where do you exactly think they will all start to funnel to? Hmm?
I can tell you one thing, what ever team gets TGW, it is NOT going to be us. And furthermore, just our own backland terrain alone tells me are going to get hit by a sh*tload of barbs regardless. And here we are doing 2-max archer calculations and HOPING for best case scenarios, etc. I don’t like it. We have really nothing fog-busted right now, and our only warrior is sitting on a frieken hill while it is still trying to heal itself, lol.
Now don’t get me wrong, calculations are important but sometimes delving in too much screws up the over-all picture. Often it’s more important to focus more on slower settler-time-lines in order to get your protection up, not to mention we badly need to see more of the map.
I guess my goal is to play until the end of archery? Well boy, I can assure you we are going to need it now! I’d like to work the mine this turn, and then as soon as the worker is done with the sheep, we should immediately improve the next plains hill. NOT irrigate the other flood tile. Think about it… mining the hill gives 4 hammers and 1 c. This improvement takes only 4 turns. Yet the floodplain has a base of 6 turns, AND has a 25% time-penalty added ON TOP of this. In other words, it will take FOREVER and that’s a lot of wastage. Furthermore, without having a granary, this is even more painful at this stage.
I will move our warrior when healed toward the gold to see where the best site near it to settle may be (hopefully we don’t lose him). The next warrior I think should move his way East immediately. It’s safe because of hills and forests. I want to know if that place is blocked off, or if we have to do it ourself. Also if I go a bit more south we may find marble. This will be the most important tile then in the whole game, much more-so than that gold. Also, if I leave a warrior on a hill there, we can stop most spawning there, at least causing a little bit of narrowing from barb-hoard directions.
It is generally a sin to work unimproved tiles while you have improved stuff sitting around. I really don’t like the fact we are working a simple floodplain tile when we have a rivered grassland-mine sitting there vacant. Now… we can all sit here and do fancy-smanthy optimal whip calculations, but the fact is (and I know from experience), that all this sh!t goes right out the window as soon as the first deity barbs show up (unless your calculations revolve around chopping the great wall).
And let me tell you something some of you may not be aware of. Wonders affect the ENTIRE TEAM (except for Taj). This means, if Ragnar, OR Monte builds the wall, then we are in some serious sh*t. They already start with 4 freiken capitals, and will have 6 cities before we even get our first. That’s a hell of a lot of terrain that the barbs on our continent will not be allowed to attack. Now, since they can’t attack those terrifies…. Where do you exactly think they will all start to funnel to? Hmm?
I can tell you one thing, what ever team gets TGW, it is NOT going to be us. And furthermore, just our own backland terrain alone tells me are going to get hit by a sh*tload of barbs regardless. And here we are doing 2-max archer calculations and HOPING for best case scenarios, etc. I don’t like it. We have really nothing fog-busted right now, and our only warrior is sitting on a frieken hill while it is still trying to heal itself, lol.
Now don’t get me wrong, calculations are important but sometimes delving in too much screws up the over-all picture. Often it’s more important to focus more on slower settler-time-lines in order to get your protection up, not to mention we badly need to see more of the map.
I guess my goal is to play until the end of archery? Well boy, I can assure you we are going to need it now! I’d like to work the mine this turn, and then as soon as the worker is done with the sheep, we should immediately improve the next plains hill. NOT irrigate the other flood tile. Think about it… mining the hill gives 4 hammers and 1 c. This improvement takes only 4 turns. Yet the floodplain has a base of 6 turns, AND has a 25% time-penalty added ON TOP of this. In other words, it will take FOREVER and that’s a lot of wastage. Furthermore, without having a granary, this is even more painful at this stage.
I will move our warrior when healed toward the gold to see where the best site near it to settle may be (hopefully we don’t lose him). The next warrior I think should move his way East immediately. It’s safe because of hills and forests. I want to know if that place is blocked off, or if we have to do it ourself. Also if I go a bit more south we may find marble. This will be the most important tile then in the whole game, much more-so than that gold. Also, if I leave a warrior on a hill there, we can stop most spawning there, at least causing a little bit of narrowing from barb-hoard directions.
obsolete
Deity
I don't agree. We are Philo here, not financial. And since I am quite content on avoiding cotts even in the reverse situation, I don't see why bloody hell we should be going that route in this case.
I vote we farm the hell out of all the floodplains, and lets max-exploit our traits to the fullest. All other tiles will become work-shopped. And don't even get me started on that Bur-commerce bonus. That same civic also boosts hammers, and since each hammer is worth 3 commerce, I think that makes my decision final
We should beeline for constitution. This gives our SE both a tremendous boost, and also unlocks our UB. We can also double-up with a spy-eccon at that point.
That one gold-hill will be more than enough to support our expansion and needs. When it becomes diluted out we will have our trade-routes, money trades, beaker builds, commerce builds, wonder-fails, and all the deity tricks in the book to get us by.
The only point for getting pottery should be for the faster growth and health bonus.
Dirk1302
Deity
Capital is different from other cities as the buro bonus works for commerce but not for specs. Even then there are capitals that still shouldn't be cottaged but this is not one of them i feel. Other cities with this leader should be farmed i agree.
I support mining the plains hill 1st. We will have to crack some archers as priority. I hope obs gets some good luck w/ barbarians fights.
I am not yet decided if we will grow cottages. It seems there is enough food to work the mines w/ cottages in the capital.
My long-term preferences would be getting philosophy 1st. Regardless if we get liberalism or not after, run pacifism as much as possible, have a holy city to support spies later.
Unfortunately, due to starting 2 capitals and possibly early courthouses spies might become not so hot.
I am not sure if the great wall is not viable, the great wall is a 'militaristic' choice and ragnar's team has high value for it but they are not wonder builders. Willem/Churchill are not wonder spammers either. So, it will depend on the last team, which should be located west of the sea.
It looks we are close to the sea, after healing the worrier, please, reveal the north part if settling any early sea city might be worth.
I am not yet decided if we will grow cottages. It seems there is enough food to work the mines w/ cottages in the capital.
My long-term preferences would be getting philosophy 1st. Regardless if we get liberalism or not after, run pacifism as much as possible, have a holy city to support spies later.
Unfortunately, due to starting 2 capitals and possibly early courthouses spies might become not so hot.
I am not sure if the great wall is not viable, the great wall is a 'militaristic' choice and ragnar's team has high value for it but they are not wonder builders. Willem/Churchill are not wonder spammers either. So, it will depend on the last team, which should be located west of the sea.
It looks we are close to the sea, after healing the worrier, please, reveal the north part if settling any early sea city might be worth.
Dirk1302
Deity
I don't see us going with lots of spies in the first place before late game. We need to boost our techrate for bribe purposes so settle gold and a few of the fp sities in the west.This land may not be best for this leader with all the fp's. FP's give a food boost anyway but lead to unhealthiness so cottaging them is often better regardless.
obsolete
Deity
I agree but what can we do... This is what the generator has given us so we are stuck with it. No matter what we go, cottages or farms we are always going to pay one penalty or the other.
We indeed have nasty health problems already in the capital brewing, and this is including +3 health from forests!! Those forests are not going to last, and as our population grows it wont look pretty.
HOWEVER!! We have right by the capital Rice.. Cows... Sheep... Wheat. So it helps! We can add a granary to almost double that, and then aqueduct later. So.... we can manage a little.
Also, we got a little lucky here, by settling on the one FP, we split 4 poison tiles into 3, and since the game rounds down instead of up, we got away with -1h
I agree on improving yellow hill before FP, but I disagree on working on the mined hill at size 2, the FP lets the capital grow to size 3 1 turn faster. If you do a little calculation, you will found we can produce 2 warriors exactly the time when the city grow to size 4, produce settler 1 turn before archery and then produce 2 archers, we reach size 5 and then continue on the settler. The 1st archer should be parked on the southern yellow hill -- imo the most vulnerable tile to barbarians from south and southeast. 2 archers and 3 warriors should be enough to defend the capital. The next unit is going to eat cash, if you fell unsafe, you can produce the 3rd archer to 1 turn of completion.
The current warrior can scout the north 1st and then east and stay on the hill to fogbust, I have no interest to see further east, 1W of the gold is the site for our 2nd city in my mind since it claims 3 FPs in sight, avoid the border contact with Monty as long as possible.
BTW, which tech do you want to research after archery?
The current warrior can scout the north 1st and then east and stay on the hill to fogbust, I have no interest to see further east, 1W of the gold is the site for our 2nd city in my mind since it claims 3 FPs in sight, avoid the border contact with Monty as long as possible.
BTW, which tech do you want to research after archery?
obsolete
Deity
No Great Wonders have been built yet. Looks like builder resources are scarce on this map... perhaps it's due to this new funky map-type? Since marble does not clump, perhaps it's much more likely we actually do have at least one of them in our tundra areas. Just another reason why I want to get over there and take a look. This would be our most important piece of tundra ever.
Nope, I can not do it, and I'm not doing to do it. That Gold site is our #1 target-priority right now, and I'm not taking my eyes off of it. We need to scout it out NOW to plan the optimal spot for that city. And we also have to hang around there, lest a barb city spawns by it and f*cks us. Unless, you want to spend the rest of the game going "Well we shoulda-woulda-coulda had an awsome start if we only got that gold-site, but Obsolete had to move his warrior up north which lost to a stupid barb and it was all for nothing."
obsolete
Deity
And if we work it now, we gain the warrior 1 turn faster, and only lose the growth by 1 turn. This 1 turn can make or break the difference of things like us Popping Bronze-working from a hut, or Monte getting there first and popping Aesthetics.
Dirk1302
Deity
@Obs, True with fp's i prefer to playing the map to playing the leader. There's 2 ways to look at philo leader imo. 1. build mids and run as much specs as possible, good science from specs and good gpp from philo. 2. Neglect specs to some extent, just run 4 or so in multiple cities for some time under caste as i did in your Liz game. This'll give you enough specs to reach lib comfortably. I only want to cottage fp cities btw, farming is better in other cities.
Don't dream on any hut now with the 1 movement warrior.
You'll also face the awkward situation 1 turn before size 4, what do you want to produce? the 4th warrior? I would not do it.
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 788
@obsolete
I like your plan of mining the plains hill, and religiously guarding the gold site before we have it settled, if a barb city spawns near it could really screw things.
Like Dirk, I would have probably been inclined to cottage the FP personally for the Bureaucracy bonus, and take advantage of Philo through running several GP farms elsewhere. Also, the relative food bonus for farming a FP is only 33%, compared with 50% for grassland farm (pre-Biology). I am not sure that a tile with +33% food is better than up to +5 Bureaucracy commerce, with modifiers, but I'm happy to go with the majority on this. Thankfully, Philosophical will compensate greatly IF we don't have marble, as we already have a NE in every city WITHOUT GA pollution.
On the workshop matter - they won't be available/useful for a long time. One option could be to have an intense period of GP generation in the late BCs/early ADs, running lots of specialists everywhere (except capital). Then build lots of workshops post-Chemistry when the GP rate begins to slow down, and finally perhaps build the NE (marble or not) and NP in the Rice FP city, and farm/watermill the hell out of it. Or even better, find a site with plenty of food that wouldn't have the potential to be a great production city and make that a mid-late game super GP farm instead.
I like your plan of mining the plains hill, and religiously guarding the gold site before we have it settled, if a barb city spawns near it could really screw things.
Like Dirk, I would have probably been inclined to cottage the FP personally for the Bureaucracy bonus, and take advantage of Philo through running several GP farms elsewhere. Also, the relative food bonus for farming a FP is only 33%, compared with 50% for grassland farm (pre-Biology). I am not sure that a tile with +33% food is better than up to +5 Bureaucracy commerce, with modifiers, but I'm happy to go with the majority on this. Thankfully, Philosophical will compensate greatly IF we don't have marble, as we already have a NE in every city WITHOUT GA pollution.
On the workshop matter - they won't be available/useful for a long time. One option could be to have an intense period of GP generation in the late BCs/early ADs, running lots of specialists everywhere (except capital). Then build lots of workshops post-Chemistry when the GP rate begins to slow down, and finally perhaps build the NE (marble or not) and NP in the Rice FP city, and farm/watermill the hell out of it. Or even better, find a site with plenty of food that wouldn't have the potential to be a great production city and make that a mid-late game super GP farm instead.
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 788
Philo is potentially good trade bait, and unlocks Pacifism which is nice. Being Spiritual though will enable us to alternate religious civics at convenience. I don't think founding Tao for the holy city is important. IMO holy cities are overrated, unless you can capture one that the AI has shrined and pre-spread for you. There is a major investment to spreading your own religion, building all gold infrastructure, and generating a GP for a shrine, and the returns are often comparable to a mediocre post-Industrial production city building wealth.
I think we can forget the GW. In my experience pre-2000 bc is a normal date for it to go at Deity, and we don't even have Masonry. Furthermore, we are still lacking some very high priority early techs such as BW, Wheel and Pottery. At least the Gruesome Twosome have Writing, so we could potentially hook up some trade routes early.
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