The last challenge -- Team game -- Deity trial

[shyuhe]

We would only use the missionary for religion culture. Although if it's Monty's religion, it may be worth adopting since Monty values religion more than Ragnar does.

To double pre-chop, the worker has to go to the tile 2N (1 turn), chop 2 turns, move onto the hill (1 turn), chop 3 turns (assuming city is settled), then move north and chop (1 turn). So that's 8 turns for 2 chops, although it times nicely with the current settler build (4 turns) + 2 turns moving + 1 turn settling. So that will make it 12 turns until the border pops after settling. In the meantime, we can farm the shared FP then move north to mine the hill. The downside is that it has minimal blocking value, although 1W of gold isn't much stronger in terms of blocking either.

 

[Dirk1302]

I don't think the blocking value is that important. Seems to me that you don't expand voluntarily towards the Monty combo and we have enough land to the west. We may need some more scouting there to see how much land we'll have there exactly.

 

[Duckweed]

Whip the settler, 2nd city provides absolute boost for everything, the earlier, the better.

 

[Dirk1302]

Looked at the save, agree with whipping the settler but wait one turn, that'll convert 6F extra into 6H in overflow, we can use these hammers right now. In the end i'd settle 1w of Gold. Let the worker improve the gold while growing on an unimproved fp. Then improve an fp. We need a second worker soon before the third settler i think.

 

[The Rook]

As for the approaching barb warrior. Upgrade the archer to combat 1 and heal him in place. The barb is likely to attempt to pillage the pasture (at least it looks so to me).

If the warrior heads between the pasture and the mine, I would suggest promoting archer to C1 and defending the pasture, whilst moving the warrior onto plains forest. This should increase the barb's chance of attacking in favour of moving onto the mine hill. That would really stink because he would likely pillage before killing himself. Unlikely the warrior would beat our archer or forest warrior, but worst ways if one dies the other could mop up.

If we whip the settler, do we put the overflow into a worker or archer? We need both, but I would probably support the archer given our precarious position.

 

[PaulisKhan]

-deleted because it had already been posted by Shyuhe-

but here's a question, how is it when I try and load the save it refuses to let me use BUG mod yet I see most of you using it?
I put up with this during the always war immortal game but I don't want to miss out on some of the handy features for this round.

 

[bestsss]

>>If the warrior heads between the pasture and the mine, I would suggest promoting archer to C1 and defending the pasture.
But why move the archer on the pasture? It gets more xp by attacking and the odds would be the higher if dont move but heal?
Yes, move the warrior to be ready to mop up onto the unforested plains hill, the archer has like 97% after c1 and healed. If still doesn't succeed, the warrior can mop it. If keeping the warrior on the forested plains and the barb wins, it's not nice since it get promo healing and keep being an annoyance.

If the barb warrior goes for the pasture it will move north/east from the pasture. If targets the mine, it will go over the forest. Problem is that if the archer is over the pasture the warrior has too low odds to suicide on, if it's with pillage AI in mind, so there is a good chance to go for the mine, north of the capital.

It's possible to produce an archer immediately after whipping (if whipping on the last turn) but it's not very optimal (working the mines after the whip and starving the capital the next turn).

 

[bestsss]

@PaulisKhan
You have BUG installed as standalone mod, you need it in the custom assets. (and you should have asked earlier about)

 

[The Rook]

If the barb warrior goes for the pasture it will move north/east from the pasture. If targets the mine, it will go over the forest. Problem is that if the archer is over the pasture the warrior has too low odds to suicide on, if it's with pillage AI in mind, so there is a good chance to go for the mine, north of the capital.

So does the barb actually have a target in mind already? Or does it just decide what to do on a turn to turn basis? Would 1SW definitely indicate an attack on the pasture? If so, then as you say it makes sense to wait. If not, I thought giving the warrior a couple of tempting (low odds) targets to hit might be worthwhile. There seems to be a high element of randomness as to whether a barb chooses to attack at low odds. As far as I'm aware a barb can't attack and self promote on the same turn with new XP (the same way a human can't).

 

[bestsss]

They cannot promote of course but I meant it'd be out of reach (of course not the case if the archer is over the pasture, my bad)
Barbarian actions are sort of random but they select pillage target 8 (i made a mistake, forgetting search range extends the moves) tiles (w/o ranging barbs) range which I think is our case. They can interrupt it, though esp. if there is a battle w/ at least 20% odds (not the case). There are cases when they take decision but if the barb. moves to the pasture I'd say it's a pillage mission.

 

[Dirk1302]

I'm not so sure of my early recommendation anymore. We don't have so much food that it'll go to waste. In the deity doctorate game waiting as long as possible for the 2 pop whip was best with the enormous amount of food surplus and no super tiles to get up asap, happy with every hammer i could get out of one food there. In this case the food situation is not so clear cut. Moreover whipping now gets gold online one turn earlier which is a big plus. So i think whip immediately as we don't need the hammers that bad these turns.

 

[The Rook]

@Bestsss

Thanks for the clarification. If the barb heads for the pasture it will be perfect.

 

[shyuhe]

So here's a plan for settling 1W:

IT: Worker farms, build settler one more turn, move western archer NE western warrior heads west towards the forest near the copper to spawn bust.

T(1): Revolt to slavery, whip settler. Worker continues farming, hope barb doesn't go towards the mine. Delhi should be at 15/26 at size 3, working sheep + 2 FP (9 food) after the whip.

T(2): Settler heads towards 1W of gold, worker continues farming. Delhi starts a worker to dump the overflow of 19 hammers.

T(3): Move settler, move worker onto gold. Delhi switches to an archer to grow to size 4.

T(4): Found Bombay, mine gold while working FP. Bombay starts on an archer. Delhi grows to size 4 (7/28) but continues working food tiles (2 irrigated FP + 1 unirrigated FP + sheep for 16 food) while building an archer.

T(5): Delhi switches back to a worker (29/60) working sheep + 2 irrigated FP + grass mine (9 total hammers per turn).

T(6): Wheel is completed. Set research to pottery (7 turns).

T(7-8): Nada (assuming no barbs).

T(9): Gold mine done, worker starts roading the gold. Bombay starts working the gold. Delhi completes its worker (I think) and switches back to finish the archer. Probably hand off here.

This assumes that we don't have to do any emergency barb whips of course...

 

[bestsss]

>>IT: Worker farms, build settler one more turn, move western archer NE western warrior heads west towards the forest near the copper to spawn bust.
The archer cannot be moved, I already attacked with. That was about the discussion w/ The Rook about keeping the archer in place.

If you feel confident that we can hold the barbarians w/ the available force, go for worker. I'd go for one more archer before the 2nd worker.
Also I agree w/ Dirk, getting the settler earlier, gets us the gold earlier.

 

[obsolete]

So does the barb actually have a target in mind already? Or does it just decide what to do on a turn to turn basis

I would have to say, the barb AI is so stupid, it also runs on a kind of random basis. So may times it will decide not to attack one of my units, then changes its mind and doubles back a turn or 2 later, only to have to fight it while the fortification level for my unit has increased!

Makes no bloody sense.

 

[shyuhe]

If you feel confident that we can hold the barbarians w/ the available force, go for worker. I'd go for one more archer before the 2nd worker.
Also I agree w/ Dirk, getting the settler earlier, gets us the gold earlier.

It's a bit of a crapshoot to be honest. The east looks like it's fog busted reasonably well but I think we'll see a bunch of units coming from the west. Would people feel safer if I built another archer before the second worker?

 

[Dirk1302]

I'd probably go for the second worker, archer next.fp's take forever to get farmed. Even if for instance the pasture is pillaged by an explosion of barbs from the west (not that likely) i think we break even with the earlier second worker since repasturing doesn't take so much time. Don't wait too long to get a road up between the 2 cities, it's not necessary for tr iirc but this roads enhances safety and flexibility.

 

[The Rook]

It's a bit of a crapshoot to be honest. The east looks like it's fog busted reasonably well but I think we'll see a bunch of units coming from the west. Would people feel safer if I built another archer before the second worker?

I suppose that if you whip the settler this turn and see more barbs coming the following turn, you could react by putting overflow into an archer, otherwise worker. One advantage of putting overflow into an archer is you might avoid the wrath of obsolete if barbs do give us the run around.

 

[shyuhe]

We're whipping the settler next turn, so we'll know whether we need to whip the archer to protect Delhi or not.

 

[The Rook]

Yes, sorry I meant next.